Prince at halftime

[Bigbuzzum]

I also thought the mix was horid, the guitar sounded great, but was 10x as loud as it needed to be, and there wasn't much of anything else.

[Nestor Z.]

I was at the game, and the halftime show ROCKED!!!

The sound was as good as you could get in a stadium and everyone was grooving to the sounds...I could not hear the marching band too much so I do not think that they were playing live...Not too sure though...Princes band definitely was playing live...

Purple rain was awesome...The crowd sang the high chorus sections louder than in any concert that I have been to...You could tell that Prince was moved by all of the energy that the crowd was giving him...

AWESOME EXPERIENCE!!!

Billy Joel had some timer gadget on his piano that timed the Airforce jet fly over...Goosebumps all over the place...

Overall I was really impressed...(intoxicated too)...

Take care,

Nestor

[Jon Kubis]

Alright, I've just watched the last few super bowl halftime shows, and I agree the performances are killer, but the mixes... arggh.

I understand that things go wrong. I understand that there are crazy politics involved, but come on.

I think the best mix of the past 3 years was the Stones.

It really does seem silly to make excuses for exceptionally poor mixes for what is arguably the most watched live performance event in this industry. As was mentioned, probably a billion people worldwide have to listen to 1 guy's mix.

I could understand it if the week before there wasn't extensive rehearsals with the same exact band and gear as would be on the night-of. I could understand it if the material wasn't all completely prerecorded in case of safety. I could understand it if there were seven bands that had to rotate in the same console space. I could understand it if it wasn't the most top-notch people running the show.

These shows, year after year, tend to disappoint me mix-wise, and these are the best of the best running the show. There is no shortage of cash behind this.

Why is everything dry and direct as a bone with McCartney's show? A couple ambient mics near the band could have killed. Why must it sound like a dry mix of D.I.'d and ultra-close miked guitar cabs superimposed on audience noise... there's no sense of space in the mix at all--sure you're not going to spend your time on the air dialing that in, but my god, you have tech rehearsals and a digital console, and probably the best gear money can buy.

The Prince mix sounded like it might as well had been him and his guitar--wait, it was. There was no kick, no snare, a pinch of keys--except in the important parts.
The guitar was good, at least better than previous years, but then again, he's wireless... they could put his amp in complete isolation if need be and get a studio tone from it, even if it's built into a small compartment under the rolling stage. Why is all I hear hi-hat?! Argh!

My sneaking suspicion is one thing... there's a lame push from the producers and everyone up top screaming that "it's gotta sound live... there can't be any question that the artist isn't lip synching". I'm sorry, myself, and the rest of not-so-skeptic America would rather hear a close-to-post-produced sounding mix. Give me ambient mics on the stage, allow the vocal and guitar to be present, but they don't have to sidechain a compressor for the rest of the damn mix =)

Again, I tell myself these are the best of the best, making many thousands of dollars on this day to deliver the single-most-amazing 10 minute rock show to 1/6th of the planet's population. We're watching the video in digital high definition on gigantic screens in larger-than-life color. Why is it year after year the mix doesn't stack up? Don't these guys 'do the impossible' for a living?

JK

[Bigbuzzum]

I dont understand how people can say. The mix was great, although I couldnt hear this or that? The rain didnt make Price's guitar 3 times louder then it should have been.

[WTF???]

Well, compared to other Superbowl acts, Prince blows them away. Total musical package. I wonder if Prince requested emphasis on the guitar...or I bet perhaps the producer running the show was a former guitar player...wanted to show Prince's skills off to the world, and to show those who forgot who the king of pop really was all this time.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by WTF???

Well, compared to other Superbowl acts, Prince blows them away. Total musical package. I wonder if Prince requested emphasis on the guitar...or I bet perhaps the producer running the show was a former guitar player...wanted to show Prince's skills off to the world, and to show those who forgot who the king of pop really was all this time.

Come on, you know the story about live sports or news television that has music elements...

IMO, as long as you hear the star's vocals and instrument you are golden.
If you happened to hear anything else it's a bonus.

[KingDaddyO]

Originally Posted by Bigbuzzum

I dont understand how people can say. The mix was great, although I couldnt hear this or that? The rain didnt make Price's guitar 3 times louder then it should have been.

I don't presume to speak for others here, but my take on it is this: I think that most of us who aren't outright slamming 'the mix', are not saying that it was a great mix ... or even a good mix. It's more like we appreciate the fact that the show 'worked' as a complete performance. A performance that overall ... was satisfying, and given the full context, perhaps even stupendous. Can you imagine any of today's pop-tart performer's in the same circumstances (Ashley Simpson anyone? ). Yeah, true that guitar was way loud. However I, as a veteran old school guitar player, actually liked that for a change. Consider this: for the most part, in almost anything having to do with mainstream tastes... you don't find any good examples of a remotely ballsy & monstrous guitar tone, that has some stink on it. So for me it was cool: an it all balances out kind of moment. End result - many people, who normally wouldn't even think of the issue or who could care less, now have an idea of what a real guitar, being played by a real performer, sounds like - naked. One door closes ... another opens.

Was it perfect - not by a long shot. But obviously some of us don't care about that specific aspect of the complete production, or that level of nit-picking. Personally I was just thrilled that they had the good sense to choose a performer of Prince's caliber, instead of going with the conventional wisdom (uggh).

Jon Kubis - You make some good points and raise very good questions (post #97). Personally I don't mind that they didn't cut away to anything pre-recorded. I like the thrill of the 'live TV moment' and the 'anything can happen' aspect. Who knows what they were really dealing with, as opposed to being unprepared or incompetent?

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by KingDaddyO

I don't presume to speak for others here, but my take on it is this: I think that most of us who aren't outright slamming 'the mix', are not saying that it was a great mix ... or even a good mix. It's more like we appreciate the fact that the show 'worked' as a complete performance. A performance that overall ... was satisfying, and given the complete context, perhaps even stupendous. Can you imagine any of today's pop-tart performer's in the same circumstances (Ashley Simpson anyone? ). Yeah, true that guitar was way loud. However I, as a veteran old school guitar player, actually liked that for a change. Consider this: for the most part, in almost anything having to do with mainstream tastes... you don't find any good examples of a remotely ballsy & monstrous guitar tone, that has some stink on it.

Exactly. The performance was MOVING, end of story. Drums too low? Marching band volume going up and down? Pah! The guitar and vocals alone were enough to convey the emotion of the performance and the talent of the performer. FWIW, I also enjoyed hearing the guitar way out front in this context. It was meaty and delicious!

-Synth80s

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by laser

I get the biggest kick out people comparing Prince to Hendrix. Just because he's black, has good chops and uses distortion.....

Prince and Hendrix are like night and day. Their licks are different.

Ummmm.....Prince has been quoted on many occasions saying that Hendrix is his main influence. As a matter of fact, he said that all he ever wanted to be was Jimi Hendrix. Even his flamboyant style screams
Hendrix.

He's not as good as Jimi (nobody is), but it was EXTREMELY apparent during the Super Bowl that his guitar playing is HEAVILY influenced by Hendrix. There's no denying that.

[Jon Kubis]

@KingDaddyO

The show did work as a complete performance very well. I'm also dead sure that those who were inside the stadium were treated to a far better mix than those at home =) Just listening to the stadium mix on the videos Reptil posted confirms that for me.

You had mentioned "today's pop-tart performer's in the same circumstances". All you have to go back to Super Bowl XXXV where it was Britney, N*Sync, a few others, and Aerosmith.

Guess who sounded great? Guess who didn't? =) Probably not a fair comparison since the N*sync boys were jumping around like crazy, but Steven Tyler has been doing this a few more years too. =)

I'm guessing they figured out that rockers, especially ones that the baby boomers have heard of, will work most effectively for Super Bowl Half Time, and you probably won't see much deviation from that for awhile.

In response to your response to my post, I'd prefer it all to be live as well, and I have no doubt this year it was (unlike prerecorded elements from years' past), but live shouldn't have to mean a sucky mix. =) My comment was mainly that if there was some problem (heaven forbid any of those mics or D.I.'s can't handle the rain) that they'd at least be able to supplement the mix with prerecorded bass or kick and snare... that's alright, I'm sure the bad mix is the sole reason why Universal had YouTube pull the video down, oh wait--99% of the people watching probably didn't care or notice. Prince rocks. Billy Joel rocks. I refuse to let the hands and faders of a Super Bowl audio 1 tell me otherwise. =)

JK

[KingDaddyO]

Hi Jon,

Yeah, I suppose I wouldn't have been completely opposed to a little professional triage assistance. Why they didn't, or couldn't, enlist a little 'backup support' is a bit mystifying to be sure. I do think that you are spot on, in that no one can claim (at least with a straight face) that the budget wasn't there.

It'd truly be cool if anyone involved with the production, did actually lurk round' these parts, and would be so gracious (not to mention courageous!) as to shed some light on what went down. They could stay anonymous if desired, but I know I'd appreciate being privy to the technical details ... just to broaden my own awareness.

[edwinhurwitz]

I wonder if it sounded like it did to the end user like it did in the mix truck. The only real truck I've ever been in was Kooster McAllister's at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival 8 years ago, so I can't claim to have any real authority here, but it would seem to me that most mixers I know would have done something to make it sound a little better. Perhaps there was line failure so maybe some elements were unavailable, but there are plenty of high stress situations where things do come out sounding great. I have a suspicion that perhaps somehow it sounded much better in the truck and something happened outside of that to sabotage the mix.

Edwin

[laser]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Ummmm.....Prince has been quoted on many occasions saying that Hendrix is his main influence. As a matter of fact, he said that all he ever wanted to be was Jimi Hendrix. Even his flamboyant style screams
Hendrix.

The Beatles, Danny Cedrone, Maury Muehleisen and Steve Lukather were my major influences. All I ever wanted to be was John Lennon. When I play, every one tells me I sound like a hybrid between Carlos Santana and Stevie Ray Vaughn.

Prince has put out a lot of material, a fair amount of it I haven't heard--so there may be a Hendrix influence I haven't heard. But I've heard most of his hits on the radio and several tracks on his albums; never once did I hear Jimi. When I listen to Robin Trower or Stevie Ray Vaughn, I hear a strong Hendrix-influence. Not Prince.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

He's not as good as Jimi (nobody is) .

Another stupid blanket statement. I saw Eric Johnson in concert last year (front row, center stage, small venue) and I can clearly say he is as good as Hendrix was. Listen to George Benson live some time or Jimmy Herring or Vince Gill or Allan Holdsworth or Stanley Jordan or........................

Get a DVD of Danny Gatton playing live or Vito Bratta. Take your blinders off and you will find plenty of guitar players as good as Jimi--you may even find that some of them are/were better.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

but it was EXTREMELY apparent during the Super Bowl that his guitar playing is HEAVILY influenced by Hendrix. There's no denying that.

If you believe that Prince sounded like Hendrix at the Super Bowl, then you're obviously not a guitar player or you have a very poorly trained ear.

Laser

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by laser

If you believe that Prince sounded like Hendrix at the Super Bowl, then you're obviously not a guitar player or you have a very poorly trained ear.

Actually, I've been playing guitar for over 20 years and I'm a multi-platinum engineer. So much for your theories. Jerk.

[anon]

I don't think prince is all that myself, way over rated IMO.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by laser

When I listen to Robin Trower or Stevie Ray Vaughn, I hear a strong Hendrix-influence. Not Prince.

... add in that Kenny Shepherd fellla and a thousand weekend warriors. Many people sound a lot more like Hendrix than Prince ever does. Prince sounds like Prince on guitar and in general. If every guitarist playing distorted pentatonics with off-handed angularity and spunk is "like Hendrix" than the listening bar is pretty low.

Hendrix never wrote a Purple Rain or a Raspberry Beret and Prince for his many, many talents will never wail with such a voice as Hendrix on Red House or write a Little Wing.

No one is "better" than Hendrix or "better" then Prince. Is a grape better than an apple? These arguments are very silly IMO ... why not appreciate the differences and uniqueness and not look to make things similar or competitive?

[Tapeworm]

I honestly can’t think of a musical artist alive today that could have a mix that bad in the middle of a rainstorm during a half time stadium show pull off a jaw dropping performance like Prince did. Period. Best halftime show I’ve ever seen. Basically it was just a man, a microphone and his guitar...

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Tapeworm

I honestly can’t think of a musical artist alive today that could have a mix that bad in the middle of a rainstorm during a half time stadium show pull off a jaw dropping performance like Prince did. Period. Best halftime show I’ve ever seen. Basically it was just a man, a microphone and his guitar...

I'm with you on this one.

Absolute brilliance on Prince's behalf.

[laser]

Originally Posted by laser
I get the biggest kick out people comparing Prince to Hendrix. Just because he's black, has good chops and uses distortion..... Prince and Hendrix are like night and day. Their licks are different.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle
Ummmm.....Prince has been quoted on many occasions saying that Hendrix is his main influence. As a matter of fact, he said that all he ever wanted to be was Jimi Hendrix.

PRINCE (In a Rolling Stone Interview when asked about the comparisons between him and Hendrix): It's only because he's black. That's really the only thing we have in common. He plays different guitar than I do.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle
but it was EXTREMELY apparent during the Super Bowl that his guitar playing is HEAVILY influenced by Hendrix. There's no denying that.

Originally Posted by laser
If you believe that Prince sounded like Hendrix at the Super Bowl, then you're obviously not a guitar player or you have a very poorly trained ear.

PRINCE (In the same interview on him sounding like Hendrix): I don't know what these people are thinking -- they're usually non-guitar-playing mamma-jammas saying this kind of stuff.

PRINCE (In an MTV interview when asked about him sounding like Hendrix): There will never be another one like him, and it would be a pity to try. I strive for originality in my work, and hopefully, it'll be perceived that way.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Actually, I've been playing guitar for over 20 years and I'm a multi-platinum engineer. So much for your theories. Jerk.

My theory still stands Hip-Hop boy. You've just narrowed it down to the second option. Since you tend to post almost exclusively on the Rap +Hip-Hop forum under the "t.dizzle" name, I can assume your often repeated claim of "multi-platinum" success would have come from this genre (if at all, since I haven't seen you post an actual name or credits--in fairness you may have on an earlier post). If actually true, it once agains confirms a lingering suspicion that there are a lot of people in this genre making tons of money with very limited talent.


Laser

[Remoteness]

Come on folks – Why do we have to go there?
Let's keep it on (the original) topic.
We're talking about great showmanship under adverse conditions and how the mix could have been (technically speaking) a lot better.

[KingDaddyO]

Originally Posted by laser

Get a DVD of Danny Gatton playing live or Vito Bratta. Take your blinders off and you will find plenty of guitar players as good as Jimi--you may even find that some of them are/were better.
Laser

Absolutely. There are few who could keep up with his speed & precision (give a listen to 'Sleepwalk' on the Unfinished Business album/CD) while encapsulating the whole shebang into an emotive statement that effortlessly supports the song's structure. Now I am a huge Jimi fan, and I also admire so many others who are monumentally great on the guitar. But Gatton's ability on the instrument, much like Jimi's, simply seemed to come 'from another dimension'. It's as if he was descended from a race of superior beings ... beings who just happened to be musicians.

Man I miss that dude. He couldn't get arrested -or- get any airplay while he was alive. Perhaps someday, the world at large will recognize the enormity of his talent.
(Music ... the universal language).

[nd33]

Originally Posted by lucey

Hendrix never wrote a Purple Rain or a Raspberry Beret and Prince for his many, many talents will never wail with such a voice as Hendrix on Red House or write a Little Wing.

Speaking of "red house", Prince does a cool cover of it on his "Rave unto the year 2000" dvd.
It's called "purple house" of course ha

Originally Posted by laser

My theory still stands Hip-Hop boy. You've just narrowed it down to the second option. Since you tend to post almost exclusively on the Rap +Hip-Hop forum under the "t.dizzle" name, I can assume your often repeated claim of "multi-platinum" success would have come from this genre (if at all, since I haven't seen you post an actual name or credits--in fairness you may have on an earlier post). If actually true, it once agains confirms a lingering suspicion that there are a lot of people in this genre making tons of money with very limited talent.Laser

HIP HOP BOY? It confirms who's lingering suspicion of alot of people in this genre making tons of money with very limited talent? Yours?

[Remoteness]

Let's get back to the technical stuff -- Okay? Okay...

When Doves Fry