Jazz Micing help for beginner

[herbs97]

Need some recommendations for kit micing. This is my first real non "home studio" session EVER. It's with a Jazz group. I'm not a jazzer, I grew up on Soundgarden. The session will include Upright bass 2 guitars(DI via musician request) and then drums. To give you an idea of the sound being sought think: Bireli Lagrene: Standards. The only good mics I presently have at my disposal..(I can rent some of course) include a U-87, a km184 matched pair, a pair of oktava mc-012, Rode NTK (2), NT1000 (2), and NT3 (3) an AT-4050 an EV RE-20, an M-88 and a pair of tc-30ks. I have two grand to play with if other mics are begging to be selected.

I'm seeking concise recommendations from minimalists who know jazz:

For the drums what mics what configuration? (this is a dead unlive tracking room)

For upright?

What kind of DI for those guitars?
Have available an AD2022, Focusrite Red Quad, and 1 old summit, and then the board Neotek Elite.

What kind of verb should I thow in their headphones, and ultimately mix? Halls? room? plate? I'm a newby duh.

Thanks for the help guys!!

-herb

[James Lehmann]

I just recorded a Jazz Trio - Drums, Piano and Electric bass and I had no choice but to use a simple stereo X-Y pair (Microtech Gefell M300's in this case) in the room. The sound wasn't bad with the exception of the Bass which just didn't cut it, although this was more a function of the instrument and the poor amplification. For the next one I will try a 5 or 7 mic arrangement - 2 x drums, 2 x piano, 2 x room, 1 x bass.

In your situation I would start with the following minimalist(ish) set-up:

DRUMS
Stereo pair (two of the Rodes or Octavas or TC, you choose)
For Jazz I don't think miking up individual drums is the way to go

ROOM
Stereo pair for ambience (KM184)
Experiment with position of these - you don't want too much drums.

BASS
Large-diaphragm condenser (U87)
+ pick-up mics if s/he has these already fitted to the instrument

GUITARS
Dynamic or condenser on the guitar amps (experiment with what you have)
+ DI feed to keep guitarists happy although I would over-rule them on only using a DI sound - I've never met a jazz player for whom their amp wasn't part of their sound, why on earth would they not want that on a recording?


Total = 10 channels, using only what you have already and giving you lots of flexibility on mix-down. You could possibly swap in the KM184's on the drums and try another pair from your list for room ambience, or better still rent a pair of Schoeps!

I can't see why the musicians would need reverb in their headphones for a recording like this, or headphones at all for that matter - that is the least of your worries! You are going for a live captured sound of the 4 of them playing together and listening to each other.

I'm sure other folks here will suggest a different approach - there's no single 'right' way!

[herbs97]

James, I really appreciate you taking the tiime to give me such solid advice. I will post another reply to this to let you know how the session went. The date is February 8.

Best regards,

Herb Plimpton

[dhughes]

I'd consider adding a mic to the kick drum. You could get something like an Audix D6 for $200. Think it would be money well spent. Know that you want to keep the setup minimal but when it comes time to mix you may really regret not having that flexibility on the kick.

Best of luck!

[Doug Ring]

Hi Herb, I agree with James - you have all the mics you need to do a pretty decent recording. I'd go with what he's suggested, but add the RE20 on kick and the M88 on snare.

Depending on your drummer, you may get very little from the kick. Some players hardly use it at all and drive everything from the cymbals, so a good overhead setup is pretty important. The 184s will do that for you, so just get the positioning right. I'd go for an X-Y pair that takes a "snapshot" of the sound from above, then bring up the snare and pan it to match its position on the pair. Then bring in the kick and experiment with phase reverse to get the most convincing thump. Just be aware that he might only use the kick for accent on every other bar, and probably with a fraction of the force of a rock drummer!

And yes, U87 is great on upright bass: aim it at one of the f-holes as a good starting point.

[herbs97]

Thank you Doug, nicely put :) The advice I receive on this bulletin board is so very valuable to me. I could only imagine how different the learning process would be if my questions came 15 years earlier before the internet and these forums. Hell, if I asked them then I'd have been quite a special 8 year old kid!
-Cheers
Herb

[NewOrleansSteve]

I agree with James on the Headphones. Don't use them to start with. Don't mention them, unless they do and be ready for that. If these guys know what they are dooing they will just play live.
then again they might be from that Soundgarden era as will and might not know anything but Headphones! If so give them 1 mix and make them Play Together! better still give them the same mix you have in the controll romm. Keep the 'verb Lo or out alltogether. finally, set a set of cans for yourself in the proformance room, so you can personally test the 'Phones. Do Not rely on the musicians to saw it's O.K. They may have No Idea!!
None of them will be 'playing the mic, so you should be set. if you add a vocalise that will change, but even then, I'd go with a speaker, monitor style and no cans. No overdubs eather, and again even if, i'v had great resulde OHing even with a little bleed.
You have some great mics to work with. i want to know more about the guitars. Are they accustic, and going for that natural sound? If so how loud is the band going to be (bleed consideration)? If they play through an elec. mic the amp. if not a lone D.I. could be O.K.
here is where you may need to add mics, Not to Upgrade, but fill out your selection. How about some Shure Sm 57s? maby you did not mention them, but if your dooing elec. gut. use at least 1. Lets say you have a Stret or other solidbody - use a peaked mic, a 57 or so. then if the other Gut. is a howill body, use a senheiser or a flat dynamic. the contrast will give each his own 'voice'. A side note on the M88, give this one a little extra distance from the amp, like 2 or 3 inches to get a little more air and room.
i do a lot of this kind of stuff. i hope this helps. Then again Jazz can mean almost anything from playiing the Fake Book to World, to Rock Fusion.


Steve