This question will sound weird to you... but I had to ask... (re. TV phase problem)

[Rockman]

Hi guys,

This is not a pro audio question, but nonetheless, it is audio related. Ok, so here goes.

Once in a while, depending on what TV channel I'm watching... or sometimes, with certain VHS video tapes, the sound is strange. For example, when I'm watching a movie... the soft (audio) parts are so soft that I have to crank the volume... and then when the loud parts come, the volume is deafening. Not normal..

Also, when watching music videos (sometimes, not all the time)... it sounds either out of phase (tons of reverb, with no dry signal)... or sometimes, I won't hear one side of the stereo spectrum (eg. the guitar solo is missing, when I know the song very well).

My TV is an old Sony Trinitron, I think a 32 inch (I bought it new back in 1996 or so).

Any ideas? is something wired wrong?

Thanks..

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Rockman

Hi guys,

This is not a pro audio question, but nonetheless, it is audio related. Ok, so here goes.

Once in a while, depending on what TV channel I'm watching... or sometimes, with certain VHS video tapes, the sound is strange. For example, when I'm watching a movie... the soft (audio) parts are so soft that I have to crank the volume... and then when the loud parts come, the volume is deafening. Not normal..

this is a rare phenomenon called "Dynamics" definitely not normal!

movies are often mixed for a theater where there are (hopefully) no distracting sounds to block out the low volume stuff and enough power in the system (and cubic feet in the room) to handle loud stuff without distorting.

That same mix may be used in the TV airing of the movie and your tinny TV speaker can't handle the extremes.

Also, when watching music videos (sometimes, not all the time)... it sounds either out of phase (tons of reverb, with no dry signal)... or sometimes, I won't hear one side of the stereo spectrum (eg. the guitar solo is missing, when I know the song very well).

are you watching broadcast or cable?

[Jim Kerr]

((SRS)) look familiar??

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by Rockman

Hi guys,

This is not a pro audio question, but nonetheless, it is audio related. Ok, so here goes.

Once in a while, depending on what TV channel I'm watching... or sometimes, with certain VHS video tapes, the sound is strange. For example, when I'm watching a movie... the soft (audio) parts are so soft that I have to crank the volume... and then when the loud parts come, the volume is deafening. Not normal..

Also, when watching music videos (sometimes, not all the time)... it sounds either out of phase (tons of reverb, with no dry signal)... or sometimes, I won't hear one side of the stereo spectrum (eg. the guitar solo is missing, when I know the song very well).

My TV is an old Sony Trinitron, I think a 32 inch (I bought it new back in 1996 or so).

Any ideas? is something wired wrong?

Thanks..

Don't feel bad, i have HD and while they are still getting the bugs out of it i get the same issues, sometimes i have programs that have left and right but no middle, that will twist your head around, 5.1 will drive you crazy in HD in my area.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by Jim Kerr

((SRS)) look familiar??

Yes, take that crap out.

[Improv]

Yeah My parents had one of those Sony's from that era, and the psuedo-surround algorithm they used is pretty brutal. It actually worked true magic on the right source material... I've never heard such surround effects from two speakers before.... it was pretty remarkable in that room/distance from couch/whatever. But send the wrong mix in there, and it's reverb heaven with no dialog or bass. Turn it off unless you're watching a movie. The soft/loud thing there is just dynamics. It's a good thing.

What I'm trying to figure out is why Comedy Central goes all phasey (nearing 180 degree null) for a couple seconds before each commercial break and sometimes when coming back. I hear it the most on the Daily Show. Anyone else ever notice this or can think of a reason? (It's loosely related here....I'm not starting a new thread)

[Monsterlab]

YESSSSS! I thought I was CRAZZZZZY! (re:Comedy Central segue into commercials). What IS that?!?!?!?!? Any cable programmers out there? I have guessed that it must be a symptom of some commercial programming box that works off of an embedded HHF guide tone (like sensurround) to signal a commercial break - all cable markets don't show the same commercials, so each markets' hub must have a device that grabs a cue and cross-fades into that markets' commercials. There is definitely a momentary loss of phase coherency between left and right. My prologic decoder get so confused - steers everything center and surround and gets all 'comby' for a minute. Really distracting when I'm trying to enjoy the latest commercials for scrubbing bubbles or Geico.

[Monsterlab]

I just remembered that at my last house, the cable audio (even when decoded from SPDIF) was several degrees out of phase ALL THE TIME! I used an IBP to get the matrix to steer properly (now it lives at the studio where it belongs!)....

[Improv]

Oh man, my old apartment had some seriously ghetto cable. Instead of a set-top decoder, they had 10 or 12 lines running into the building with different programming packages on each, which were then split to hundreds of apartments. Guess which package was most popular, which I had, and how great it sounded.

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by Rockman

Once in a while, depending on what TV channel I'm watching... or sometimes, with certain VHS video tapes, the sound is strange. For example, when I'm watching a movie... the soft (audio) parts are so soft that I have to crank the volume... and then when the loud parts come, the volume is deafening. Not normal..

That's usually from bad (mis calibrated ) Dolby decoding, or sometimes from multiple generations of encoding-decoding-encoding-decoding. Ah, the bad old days of doing post on analog media.

[starcrash13]

Originally Posted by Improv

What I'm trying to figure out is why Comedy Central goes all phasey (nearing 180 degree null) for a couple seconds before each commercial break and sometimes when coming back. I hear it the most on the Daily Show. Anyone else ever notice this or can think of a reason? (It's loosely related here....I'm not starting a new thread)

I think that's due to a live crossfade from the stage mics to the music straight from the board. The music is blasting through the P.A. and being picked up by the stage mics. I hear the phasiness (is that a word?) when it switches to direct source music. This is only a guess, though. I work mostly in film, but I did some live TV mixing back at university. That's a difficult job! Whew!

[DeeDrive]

I was flipping through the channels on my TV one day and I could swear the stereo channels were out of phase with each other. I went upstairs to my mono speaker TV, and sure enough, there was no sound on that one channel. Weird stuff.

[Rockman]

Wow. Well, I'm glad I wasn't going crazy by starting this thread. By the way, it's not SRS in my case. I hate that crap and I never use that setting. But still, it's a mystery. I don't know... maybe it's my TV? Maybe it's wired all wrong inside? Sometimes, it drives me nuts...

[joeq]

I hear big time audio dropouts on the History Channel all the time. Like someone kicked in a -20db pad for a few seconds at a time. I wouldn't call it phasey, just way quieter.

I have cable, so I always assumed it was the local cable company that screwed up. The locally originated shows- public access and the like - always have AWFUL audio. But maybe it is coming from the satellite.

[Monsterlab]

Originally Posted by starcrash13

I think that's due to a live crossfade from the stage mics to the music straight from the board. The music is blasting through the P.A. and being picked up by the stage mics. I hear the phasiness (is that a word?) when it switches to direct source music. This is only a guess, though. I work mostly in film, but I did some live TV mixing back at university. That's a difficult job! Whew!

That could be it!!! It only happens on network programming fade out and network programmng fade in............

[jhg]

Originally Posted by zaza

Don't feel bad, i have HD and while they are still getting the bugs out of it i get the same issues, sometimes i have programs that have left and right but no middle, that will twist your head around, 5.1 will drive you crazy in HD in my area.

There are a number of potential reasons for this. Some networks send stereo content labelled as 5.1 in the metadata, so all there programs "light the blue light" ie: show up in surround at the set-top box. There are products that will upmix the stereo to surround,, for various reasons (so you can avoid the "pop" that happens when the set-top box reloads the algorithm when metadata shows stereo content coming up among others). Problem with some auto upmixing devices is that they assume when they see 2 channels that it is stereo, and up mix the L/R. What if it is actually 5.1 content and a stereo music bed in the intro? The center channel is lost at the very least. Don't get me started on blatent incorrect dialnorm values entered to make a network/show sound louder. Some networks are getting vigilant in enforcing correct dialnorm values(Discovery and PBS) for content, but because commercials pay for everything, they can't tell their advertisers "You need to remix that last spot you sent us, we won't play it, it's way too loud" So all the programs are consistent levels, then the commercials punch you in the face.

SRS, sensa surround, various phase manipulation algo.'s etc can really mess with center heavy mixes(ie sports where the announcer is heavy in the middle) When the crowd goes wild, there goes the center.

Lot's of growing pains with HD television.

Regards,

jhg

[Improv]

Yeah it really sucks. I tend to fall asleep (late) to Discovery Science channel because they never go to infomercial (I'd rather see a repeat than an infomercial) and because I'm a geek. It's great except for the commercials which make finding an appropriate "sleep volume" impossible (Fitness Made Simple and the f'in' I-Joy chair commercials are blatantly the worst. I hate no one in the world, except for fiteness celebrity John Basedow. And that ugly-ass chair)

Bravo to stations limiting their broadcast levels... but why can't they just lower the volume of offending commercials to match the apparent volume of the rest of their content? Would they really lose ad clients that way?