landscape/nature recording

revrb · 9th January 2004, 07:52 AM

im sure some of you have recorded natural ambient sounds, if so what is your set-up to do so...im curious

Berolzheimer · 9th January 2004, 08:30 AM

I've done a fair amount; the setup changes depending on the environment & what the recording's for. I've done a lot on DAT but never again! 24 bit from now on. Mic's can be Schoeps, Neumanns, etc, sometimes ORTF, sometimes M-S, sometimes Spaced Omnis, etc. Do you have a particular task you're looking for advice on?

entropy · 9th January 2004, 08:33 AM

jus' my 0.02p but i've had good results with a Sanken CSS5 stereo mic and a Tascam DAP1 portable dat. I'm not sure what Berolzheimer's problems with dat were but no probs from me

Berolzheimer · 9th January 2004, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by entropy I'm not sure what Berolzheimer's problems with dat were

2 words- "16 bit"

revrb · 9th January 2004, 06:41 PM

hmmm interesting, i guess its personal preference for the recording medium....

im want to record some cityscapes, just sounds as they happen around the places i live, work, play... sort of an autobiographical soundtrack to my life, im looking for the most economical(well maybe a few extra $$ here and there) field recording setup...

the only quality mics i have are two sm57's, and i dont have any portable preamps or recorders...

any advice would be great...

Berolzheimer · 9th January 2004, 08:06 PM

My quick & easy, low budget portable recording setup for a long time was a Sony TCD-D7 Dat recorder and an Audio Technica AT822, which is an X-Y stereo mic with unbalanced outs that can be gotten for $250-$300.

revrb · 10th January 2004, 04:14 AM

so that dat had preamps? or phantom power?

Berolzheimer · 10th January 2004, 07:58 AM

Preamps, yes, phantom, no. The mic is powered by an AA battery. The D7 (or subsequent versions D8 & D100, I beleive) have a mini TRS stereo mic. input. The output of the at822 is on a 3 pin XLR, unbalanced, with pin 1-Ground, pin 2-left hot, pin 3-right hot. so I just used an XLR to mini TRS cable. This is not a very hifi setup, mind you, but it's decent for grabbing sounds on the fly. Certainly there are lots of movies out there that contain sound effects captured on that setup.

revrb · 10th January 2004, 10:12 AM

very cool, thanks alot for thee tips, you use HD for field recordings now as opposed to dat? what is the model?

Tim Halligan · 25th January 2004, 12:07 PM

AKG CK-1X in a Rycote Spherical windjammer, with AKG 460 electronics...then into whatever...Nagra, DAT, Digibeta, HD Beta...

Cheers,
Tim

Ted Nightshade · 8th February 2004, 05:45 PM

I've recorded birds and crickets and a creek. For these sounds, you need tons of gain, more than I had in the Manley Dual Mono pre I was using. Still, to 24 bit, it's alright to peak at -20 or -30. I recorded through a HEDD to a Masterlink- straight into a DA78 on a different occasion.

Avoiding air thumps to the mics is a big issue. This is a real deal-killer. I've used DPA 4011's with the foam things to avoid wind-pops, which works pretty well but is not failsafe by any means, and Manley Golds, which are very, very vulnerable to air movement and could only be done when it was really still, but the big signal and low self noise of the large diaphragm was very welcome when it worked. I could really use some small diaphragm omnis for this, and pres with a lot more quiet gain. The small omnis are the least vulnerable of all mics to air movement troubles, by a goodly margin.

Back in the 4 track days, I hung a SM57 out my city window, and you know it got the idea across quite well.

For a great example of street scenes interspersed with music, check out Kronos Quartet's new one, "Nuevo". It's rather cinematic in feel, and done really, really well.

revrb · 8th February 2004, 10:36 PM

alright, thanks for the tips and tricks...is "Nuevo" out yet? (havent seen it or heard about it) i havent been following their stuff this past year...

*dangles sm57*

Ted Nightshade · 9th February 2004, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by revrb
alright, thanks for the tips and tricks...is "Nuevo" out yet? (havent seen it or heard about it) i havent been following their stuff this past year...

*dangles sm57*

It's out.

I think the nature stuff calls for a more fussy approach, grungy passing car noises are groovy lo-fi...

DanV · 9th February 2004, 07:28 PM

This one looks weird but actually works and sounds great!

The very best bang per buck I've found for this situation is coupling a Denecke AD-20 with a Nomad Jukebox3 - the Nomad has mini digital in and can record at 44.1khz in standard 16bit wav - has a great long battery life - easy menu - fast firewire and usb2 transfers - big hd - minimal cost - especially when purchased used. The Denecke is a great portable stereo A/D & pre that will work fine on any non phantom mic - if you need phantom you can rig it seperately. If you find both of these used - get em - you wont be sorry. You just need to make sure to make a sturdy portable case for the 2.

revrb · 10th February 2004, 07:39 AM

yea i did a little research tonight on the jb3 + danecke setup

seems pretty cheap, comapred to others...seeing as used jb3's can be under 100 on ebay (the 20GB one)....

the danecke ad20, goes for what...$200 usd?

anyone heard anything about this:http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iHP-120.asp

seems kinda neat.....looks like it can record optical i think

revrb · 21st February 2004, 10:07 AM

another question to add: i dont have much cash at the moment, and im curious about the sony ECM-ms957 for these types of recording.....i think im leaning towards a M-S mic......anyone ever owned this sony mic? or another prosumer-ish(cheaper) M-S mic...

good bad ugly?

any comments would be helpful thanks

charles maynes · 10th March 2004, 05:04 AM

I have used the Denecke forever- (well for about 5 years) It is an absolute wonder of engineering- the greatest people to talk to too.

The AD20 is an interesting bit of kit- It is extremely affordable (but not "cheap" in any way whatsoever) It has unreal built in and non-defeatable limiters and runs for a good long time on a single 9v battery. It kicks butt.

I also use their 2 channel Phantom supply which gets the same comments as above.

The only problem with it is that if you power large diaphragm condensers, It eats up batteries pretty quick- With my Sanken CSS-5 or my MKE2 lavs they will go for a whole day on 1 9v.

I use them with a Tascam DAP-1 dat and have been making a good living with them-

I did however just buy a Fostex FR2 which I think is the bees knees.
I will have to see if it is as good as the Denecke for recording guns and stuff though...

I have pretty much weaned myself from the Nagra now...

cheers!

charles maynes

revrb · 10th March 2004, 06:16 AM

yea i picked up a used AD20 on ebay last month, definetly worth it, if it broke id buy another for sure, i love it

wohoo!

DanV · 10th March 2004, 09:40 AM

Cool man, good move - I miss that piece a lot - but I wasn't doing much field recording so it was the most reasonable one to part with.
I have a friendly tip - remember not to leave the battery in when you aren't using it - it will burn through one in about 3/4 hours.
I missed a lot of good sample opportunities just because I forgot to remove the battery when it wasn't in use.

Cheers!

revrb · 10th March 2004, 10:15 PM

yea its happened twice already

thanks for telling me about it, i really am getting some great stuff recorded thru it, today i even used it when mid-side recording a piano...turned out way better than expected, a genious invention

mosteveh · 28th August 2008, 06:17 PM

I'm about to do some jungle recording in central america and need to improve my set up. Right now it's the following...

Sennheiser 416 w/wind screen >
Alpha Mixer (4channel) >
Sound Device Recorder (2channel) OR Panasonic HVX cam.

I'll have another 416 to use and will be able to purchase one more mic. I was thinking of getting a zeppelin too. Any suggestions overall? I'd like to do more of this type of recording so any tips would be great! thanks

John Willett · 28th August 2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosteveh

I'm about to do some jungle recording in central america and need to improve my set up. Right now it's the following...

Sennheiser 416 w/wind screen >
Alpha Mixer (4channel) >
Sound Device Recorder (2channel) OR Panasonic HVX cam.

I'll have another 416 to use and will be able to purchase one more mic. I was thinking of getting a zeppelin too. Any suggestions overall? I'd like to do more of this type of recording so any tips would be great! thanks

Full Rycote windshield kit or the cheaper S-series is the perfect solution for windshielding.

If it's likely to rain a lot you may find the Rycote "Duck" useful as well.

Kit looks fine. I don't know the Alpha mixer - I would normally suggest a Sound Devices mixer here.

Berolzheimer · 28th August 2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosteveh

I'm about to do some jungle recording in central america and need to improve my set up. Right now it's the following...

Sennheiser 416 w/wind screen >
Alpha Mixer (4channel) >
Sound Device Recorder (2channel) OR Panasonic HVX cam.

I'll have another 416 to use and will be able to purchase one more mic. I was thinking of getting a zeppelin too. Any suggestions overall? I'd like to do more of this type of recording so any tips would be great! thanks

If you're recording ambiences the 416's probably aren't your best choice. I'd look for something with a broader cardioid pattern & flatter frequency response.

If you're taking the expense & effort to travel to a jungle on another continent to record there, it's worth making sure you're set up to do it right.

mosteveh · 28th August 2008, 07:24 PM

Any suggestions for a better mic then? Maybe some sort of omni? I'm open for experimentation here.

Berolzheimer · 28th August 2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosteveh

Any suggestions for a better mic then? Maybe some sort of omni? I'm open for experimentation here.

Well it depends on your budget of course, and what you'll be using the sounds for.

Schoeps are always good. as are B&K (now DPA I guess)

Berolzheimer · 28th August 2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

Well it depends on your budget of course, and what you'll be using the sounds for.

Schoeps are always good. as are B&K (now DPA I guess)

Nuemann 190 if you want to do MS, although from what I hear, as with all things Nuemann, the new model isn't as good as the old one- 190 vs 191 I believe.

Berolzheimer · 28th August 2008, 07:32 PM

If you're into experimenting and don't mind being non traditional, you might try omnis very far apart- like 20 feet or more.

mosteveh · 28th August 2008, 08:01 PM

Excellent. Thanks for the ideas! I'll be sure to post the results in a few months.

Berolzheimer · 28th August 2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosteveh

Excellent. Thanks for the ideas! I'll be sure to post the results in a few months.

I look forward to that. Happy travels!

Berolzheimer · 28th August 2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

I look forward to that. Happy travels!

Oh one other thing- 2 friends of mine did an Amazon recording expedition a while back, they took great pains to keep the humidity from their gear. You might want to do the same.

9th January 2004, 07:52 AM	#1
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	landscape/nature recording im sure some of you have recorded natural ambient sounds, if so what is your set-up to do so...im curious __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

9th January 2004, 08:30 AM	#2
Berolzheimer Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: El Lay Posts: 2,108	I've done a fair amount; the setup changes depending on the environment & what the recording's for. I've done a lot on DAT but never again! 24 bit from now on. Mic's can be Schoeps, Neumanns, etc, sometimes ORTF, sometimes M-S, sometimes Spaced Omnis, etc. Do you have a particular task you're looking for advice on? __________________ Purveyor of fine sounds since 1961. My very incomplete IMDB list: My very incomplete IMDB list I'm all ears.

9th January 2004, 08:33 AM	#3
entropy Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: QLD. Australia Posts: 1,035	jus' my 0.02p but i've had good results with a Sanken CSS5 stereo mic and a Tascam DAP1 portable dat. I'm not sure what Berolzheimer's problems with dat were but no probs from me __________________ "...they were still booing him when we came on stage..." Pro Audio Pimp

9th January 2004, 06:41 PM	#5
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	hmmm interesting, i guess its personal preference for the recording medium.... im want to record some cityscapes, just sounds as they happen around the places i live, work, play... sort of an autobiographical soundtrack to my life, im looking for the most economical(well maybe a few extra $$ here and there) field recording setup... the only quality mics i have are two sm57's, and i dont have any portable preamps or recorders... any advice would be great... __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

9th January 2004, 08:06 PM	#6
Berolzheimer Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: El Lay Posts: 2,108	My quick & easy, low budget portable recording setup for a long time was a Sony TCD-D7 Dat recorder and an Audio Technica AT822, which is an X-Y stereo mic with unbalanced outs that can be gotten for $250-$300. __________________ Purveyor of fine sounds since 1961. My very incomplete IMDB list: My very incomplete IMDB list I'm all ears.

10th January 2004, 04:14 AM	#7
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	so that dat had preamps? or phantom power? __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

10th January 2004, 07:58 AM	#8
Berolzheimer Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: El Lay Posts: 2,108	Preamps, yes, phantom, no. The mic is powered by an AA battery. The D7 (or subsequent versions D8 & D100, I beleive) have a mini TRS stereo mic. input. The output of the at822 is on a 3 pin XLR, unbalanced, with pin 1-Ground, pin 2-left hot, pin 3-right hot. so I just used an XLR to mini TRS cable. This is not a very hifi setup, mind you, but it's decent for grabbing sounds on the fly. Certainly there are lots of movies out there that contain sound effects captured on that setup. __________________ Purveyor of fine sounds since 1961. My very incomplete IMDB list: My very incomplete IMDB list I'm all ears.

10th January 2004, 10:12 AM	#9
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	very cool, thanks alot for thee tips, you use HD for field recordings now as opposed to dat? what is the model? __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

25th January 2004, 12:07 PM	#10
Tim Halligan Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Perth,Western Australia Posts: 324	AKG CK-1X in a Rycote Spherical windjammer, with AKG 460 electronics...then into whatever...Nagra, DAT, Digibeta, HD Beta... Cheers, Tim

8th February 2004, 05:45 PM	#11
Ted Nightshade Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: state of jefferson Posts: 1,328	I've recorded birds and crickets and a creek. For these sounds, you need tons of gain, more than I had in the Manley Dual Mono pre I was using. Still, to 24 bit, it's alright to peak at -20 or -30. I recorded through a HEDD to a Masterlink- straight into a DA78 on a different occasion. Avoiding air thumps to the mics is a big issue. This is a real deal-killer. I've used DPA 4011's with the foam things to avoid wind-pops, which works pretty well but is not failsafe by any means, and Manley Golds, which are very, very vulnerable to air movement and could only be done when it was really still, but the big signal and low self noise of the large diaphragm was very welcome when it worked. I could really use some small diaphragm omnis for this, and pres with a lot more quiet gain. The small omnis are the least vulnerable of all mics to air movement troubles, by a goodly margin. Back in the 4 track days, I hung a SM57 out my city window, and you know it got the idea across quite well. For a great example of street scenes interspersed with music, check out Kronos Quartet's new one, "Nuevo". It's rather cinematic in feel, and done really, really well.

8th February 2004, 10:36 PM	#12
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	alright, thanks for the tips and tricks...is "Nuevo" out yet? (havent seen it or heard about it) i havent been following their stuff this past year... dangles sm57 __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

9th February 2004, 07:28 PM	#14
DanV Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Brooklyn NYC Posts: 696	This one looks weird but actually works and sounds great! The very best bang per buck I've found for this situation is coupling a Denecke AD-20 with a Nomad Jukebox3 - the Nomad has mini digital in and can record at 44.1khz in standard 16bit wav - has a great long battery life - easy menu - fast firewire and usb2 transfers - big hd - minimal cost - especially when purchased used. The Denecke is a great portable stereo A/D & pre that will work fine on any non phantom mic - if you need phantom you can rig it seperately. If you find both of these used - get em - you wont be sorry. You just need to make sure to make a sturdy portable case for the 2. __________________ easy there tiger, your paper is showing

10th February 2004, 07:39 AM	#15
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	yea i did a little research tonight on the jb3 + danecke setup seems pretty cheap, comapred to others...seeing as used jb3's can be under 100 on ebay (the 20GB one).... the danecke ad20, goes for what...$200 usd? anyone heard anything about this:http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iHP-120.asp seems kinda neat.....looks like it can record optical i think __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

21st February 2004, 10:07 AM	#16
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	another question to add: i dont have much cash at the moment, and im curious about the sony ECM-ms957 for these types of recording.....i think im leaning towards a M-S mic......anyone ever owned this sony mic? or another prosumer-ish(cheaper) M-S mic... good bad ugly? any comments would be helpful thanks __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

10th March 2004, 05:04 AM	#17
charles maynes Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: out in the dirt. Posts: 14,162	Location Recording gear- I have used the Denecke forever- (well for about 5 years) It is an absolute wonder of engineering- the greatest people to talk to too. The AD20 is an interesting bit of kit- It is extremely affordable (but not "cheap" in any way whatsoever) It has unreal built in and non-defeatable limiters and runs for a good long time on a single 9v battery. It kicks butt. I also use their 2 channel Phantom supply which gets the same comments as above. The only problem with it is that if you power large diaphragm condensers, It eats up batteries pretty quick- With my Sanken CSS-5 or my MKE2 lavs they will go for a whole day on 1 9v. I use them with a Tascam DAP-1 dat and have been making a good living with them- I did however just buy a Fostex FR2 which I think is the bees knees. I will have to see if it is as good as the Denecke for recording guns and stuff though... I have pretty much weaned myself from the Nagra now... cheers! charles maynes

10th March 2004, 06:16 AM	#18
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	yea i picked up a used AD20 on ebay last month, definetly worth it, if it broke id buy another for sure, i love it wohoo! __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

10th March 2004, 09:40 AM	#19
DanV Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Brooklyn NYC Posts: 696	Cool man, good move - I miss that piece a lot - but I wasn't doing much field recording so it was the most reasonable one to part with. I have a friendly tip - remember not to leave the battery in when you aren't using it - it will burn through one in about 3/4 hours. I missed a lot of good sample opportunities just because I forgot to remove the battery when it wasn't in use. Cheers! __________________ easy there tiger, your paper is showing

10th March 2004, 10:15 PM	#20
revrb Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	yea its happened twice already thanks for telling me about it, i really am getting some great stuff recorded thru it, today i even used it when mid-side recording a piano...turned out way better than expected, a genious invention __________________ white light, white heat, white noise

28th August 2008, 06:17 PM	#21
mosteveh Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 30	I'm about to do some jungle recording in central america and need to improve my set up. Right now it's the following... Sennheiser 416 w/wind screen > Alpha Mixer (4channel) > Sound Device Recorder (2channel) OR Panasonic HVX cam. I'll have another 416 to use and will be able to purchase one more mic. I was thinking of getting a zeppelin too. Any suggestions overall? I'd like to do more of this type of recording so any tips would be great! thanks

28th August 2008, 07:24 PM	#24
mosteveh Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 30	Any suggestions for a better mic then? Maybe some sort of omni? I'm open for experimentation here.

28th August 2008, 07:32 PM	#27
Berolzheimer Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: El Lay Posts: 2,108	If you're into experimenting and don't mind being non traditional, you might try omnis very far apart- like 20 feet or more. __________________ Purveyor of fine sounds since 1961. My very incomplete IMDB list: My very incomplete IMDB list I'm all ears.

28th August 2008, 08:01 PM	#28
mosteveh Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 30	Excellent. Thanks for the ideas! I'll be sure to post the results in a few months.

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