Multipin PITA

bishopthomas · 30th December 2006, 11:47 PM

I got some generic W4 connectors that are solder style rather than crimp. I saved a few hundred bucks so I won't complain too much, but let me just say.... What a pain in the ass. I've spent the last 3 days stripping (not that kind), tinning, and soldering. I only have a 16 channel snake, but I'm going to go ahead and connect the leads on all of the panel mount contacts so that I can easily add channels in the future. So let's see, 176 pins on each connector, times 2 = cramping hand and blurry vision. I've burned through all my Family Guy DVD's, so time for a break.

**Remoteness** · 31st December 2006, 02:01 AM

Man, I know where you're coming from since we only have solder W4s in our inventory.

We had a guy (he moved to Ohio) that wired them (one W3) in under four hours.
This guy was simply awesome. I have never met a faster wiring tech since...

He was even faster on XLRs and such. Zoom, Zoom, Zoom!

Are you wiring it as per the Whirlwind Standard?

Whirldwind Music splits the odd and even channels.

bishopthomas · 31st December 2006, 04:31 AM

4 hours! My tip is too big and I've had to be very strategic about it. I started out doing the top pins, got the top row done before I realized that my tip would hit the pin above the one I was working on. So I had to start over, map it out, and start from the bottom left up. As soon as I find a decent electronics store I'm going to buy the smallest tip I can find.

The only diagram I could find when I started was for a different size Mass connector. I couldn't (maybe didn't want to) figure out how to translate that to the W4 so I made up my own system (which makes more sense, by the way). I knew that it wouldn't be compatible with anyone else's system but I decided that I should own anything I need anyway, so I pressed on. After I started this thread I found the W4 diagram right where it's supposed to be, on the Whirlwind W3 PDF manual. So no, mine is completely botched at this point.

I have decided to go with the standardized configuration because I know I'll either have to rent something (I won't be able to afford a 300' 58 channel snake for a while) or, more to my advantage, rent my splitter out. I haven't wired the XLR input panels yet, so the only thing I have to reconfigure will be the inline snake connector (48 pins). My panel mount wiring color coding will be shot, but that's alright.

Steve, how well do yours hold up? I've been very careful about testing the strength of the solder joints and making sure I have no cold joints, but I dread the day I have to open it up and fix the one loose wire in the center of that mess. Maybe after I get a smaller tip I'll see that it's not so bad. The crimp style would be nice, but I got 4 W4's for a little more than the crimp tool kit costs, so I can't really complain.

**Remoteness** · 31st December 2006, 10:05 AM

Man, these connectors can hold up for tens of years...

All of our W4s are still in use and only one chassis mounted connector has a broken pin one (channel 49 or 50 I forget) which was damaged by a vidiot that did not know how to mate the connectors correctly... Thank goodness it was a tie line on one of our smaller systems -- We left it "pin one lifted" since it would be a serious pain in the "hands" to redo the 176 pin W4 for a ground pin on a tie line.

You MUST always check for bent pins (usually the outer ones bend first) before your interconnect. If you are careful with these babies they will last a life time.

Jim vanBergen · 31st December 2006, 03:50 PM

Time to buy the right size tip, my friend!

I have done both the solder and the crimp, and the solder is a much more solid connnector (for me, anyway!) and is more robust for our practices.

When I have done crimp style W-connectors, I had more pins slip. The trick to fixing them in place is, I think, "perfect crimping" which is much harder than perfect soldering.

When I operated a remote truck, we used 56-pr system and often subrented from other companies for larger jobs, extreme runs, or multi-stage events. In our first yeat of operation, we experienced bent or broken pins in various tails and trucks when we allowed house crews to make connections. Whirlwind repaired our broken pieces quickly and efficiently, and we firmly insisted from them on that no one except our crew be allowed to handle our interconnects.

Cheers!

Jim

bishopthomas · 31st December 2006, 06:54 PM

That's what I was afraid of with the crimp style: easier to build and maintain, but not as sturdy. I will make sure that I am the only one making the connections. I shed a tear last night as I de-soldered the snake from the W4. At least now I'm on the road to standardization. I know if I don't fix it now then I'll be kicking myself later.

**Remoteness** · 31st December 2006, 08:49 PM

Make sure you use the right W4 wiring diagram for the input and outputs.

The odd and even XLR channels swap when (in/out) are wired wrong.

bishopthomas · 31st December 2006, 09:49 PM

Yes, thank you. I had read that before and had it right in "my" system. My 16 channel snake is much too small for the built in W4 strain relief to even touch the cable. Do you have any suggestions and sources for strain reliefs?

**Remoteness** · 1st January 2007, 06:51 AM

Kellem grips come in various sizes -- So. getting the right size for your application is not a problem at all.

I forget who owns the Kellem grip line nowadays.

Do a search -- I'd do it for you, but I'm on location with my VAIO Micro PC -- It's keyboard is too small for that right now.

It took me forever to type this stuff in.

gatekeeper · 1st January 2007, 09:54 AM

I bought those also bishop, but I still didn't buy my trunk yet, how are those holding up to the soldering, can you explain briefly your steps, are you tinning all the cables plus all the contacts or just the cables, starting from the top, bottom, left, right etc etc etc, any comments would be greatly appreciated.

**Remoteness** · 1st January 2007, 12:26 PM

IMO, you should tin the cables and fill the cups.

I believe you should start the wiring from the middle out.

bishopthomas · 1st January 2007, 06:28 PM

Yes, definitely tin everything. The "prep" work is what sucks: cutting lengths of wire, stripping both ends, tinning both ends, filling the solder cups. After that it's just putting the wire on the contact and quickly hitting it with the iron. I work on all pins (or sockets) first, starting from the bottom left-right, then move up a row left-right. I learned this the hard way, like I said, by having to start over on a few channels because the iron would touch nearby contacts. I'm assuming you're right handed; if you're a lefty then you'll want to go right to left, as that's how your soldering iron will be pointed. Get the correct size iron tip before you even start, I wish I had.

Print out the wiring diagram for both the input and output connectors to use as a guide. As you finish a set of 3 (+ - G) label it as the appropriate channel so that your panel mount XLR's will be easy. It's hard to see which wire is going to which pin after they're all in place. The only other tip I have is put your Mass connector in a vice so it stays in place.

The snake end is the hard part, I think. The panel mounts are time consuming, but since you're dealing with individual wires then it's not that bad. Good luck with it, and maybe someone else will have some other words of wisdom, or even ways to improve my method.

foldback · 1st January 2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Kellem grips come in various sizes -- So. getting the right size for your application is not a problem at all.

I forget who owns the Kellem grip line nowadays.

As I remember, I think it's Hubble or the company that owns them :-)

**Remoteness** · 2nd January 2007, 12:52 AM

Yes, you are right -- Hubble is the company I was trying to think of!

Some folks also call the Hubble Kellums "Cord Grips."

Here's a link to Hubble's Wiring Device Page - Kellums.

bishopthomas · 14th January 2007, 12:06 AM

Well, my multipinning days are finally coming to a close. I'm waiting on my rack, panels, and panel-mount XLR's for the snake box, then I can finish this project. Here's what I have so far:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...mas/snake1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...mas/snake2.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...mas/snake3.jpg

**Remoteness** · 14th January 2007, 07:18 AM

Man, I bet you cannot wait until you finish this project.

I'm curious why you didn't use shielded pairs for your chassis mounted connectors?

Oh, here are the three pictures if you're too lazy to click on each of those links!

Hey, I was bored so, I did my little thingy for you folks.

bishopthomas · 14th January 2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Man, I bet you cannot wait until you finish this project.

I'm curious why you didn't use shielded pairs for your chassis mounted connectors?

Oh, here are the three pictures if you're too lazy to click on each of those links!

Hey, I was bored so, I did my little thingy for you folks.

You're right, I can't wait. It's taken way too long, mainly because I didn't do it right the first 6 times. :) To be honest, the reason I didn't use shielded pairs is because I didn't have the cable readily available. Also, it was a lot easier to use individual wire; I'd solder one in place and move to the next, no group of three to have to position. I don't think I'll have any RF or EMI problems on that 8" of cable, but I know it could happen. I don't have transformers or ground lift switches either, so that was more of a concern for me. I plan on adding them as budget allows, though. I'm leaving space in the rack.

Thanks for posting the pictures. I posted them as links to keep the thread length down, but I don't guess it really matters. Did you resize the pictures? If so maybe it's your software settings, if not then it might be the way this site handles attachments, but your pictures always look very pixelated when they are imbedded. I don't know if it's just yours or not; you're the main picture-poster on here and it's just something I've noticed. No big deal, just thought I'd point it out.

**Remoteness** · 14th January 2007, 09:41 AM

I hope you don't find out about any RF or EMI problems the hard way because there's no going back while on location.

Yeah, I really don't care too much about the thread length and such.

I did resize the pictures and I layered all three into one file. GS does have a size limit when it comes to attachments. If I posted those pictures individually there would not have been any pixel issues. I lowered the quality of the picture so it fit under the GS attachment limit... My bad!

foldback · 14th January 2007, 10:31 AM

For max CMRR twist the pairs together (but don't include the ground wire in the twist). I use a variable speed electric drill with a keyless chuck, to get a nice even twist, don't go very fast. Use some needle nose pliers (or like) to hold the wire at the connector end. Release the wire out of the drill before releasiing the needle nose so the recoil doesn't bust your solder connections. If they're used as balanced lines induced hum or RF should not be a problem.

An old ex-Navy tech showed me the electric drill technique years ago. I thought it was extreme until I tried it, really makes your wiring look good and work great.

I replaced the headend on a small cruise ship this past spring. The old system had terrible problems with RF pushing in over the audio system, the ships antenna farm is directly over the sound system racks and equipment. The switching system that controls the routing between 11 different sound systems was all built with twisted pairs (not twisted shielded pair cable), we did use tsp from the switching to the wall mounted terminal box. I had a $100 bet that the my replacement system would not receive any radio interference. All the audio paths throughout the headend (which I built) are balanced. We tested it extensively using different VHF and UHF radio transceivers, there was no interference.

Best of luck with it. How about posting some picts when you get the whole thing done.

The pictures look ok on my dual 17" Samsung LCD monitors. They look like good internet jpg

bishopthomas · 14th January 2007, 05:59 PM

Thanks for the tips, that's a great idea to use a drill. I will definitely post pictures after I get the rack put together (probably Wed/Thurs).

Jim vanBergen · 14th January 2007, 08:04 PM

I like the pics. This week I had me plus four techs doing maintenance on an install I did in 2005, Went deep into the 40RU racks to the punchdowns as we fixed pics and problems in the W4 connectors. Be happy you went with 16/24 channels, not the full 56 pair. What a drag THAT was.

The drill twist is a good fabication technique. Most important is to keep them CONSISTENT so the pairs respond identically to RFI/EMI. When you find ONE pair that was not twisted right (like I did this week on ch 15) that can really blow, especially when there are four terminations coming together in the terminal block.

jim

bishopthomas · 27th January 2007, 07:49 AM

Besides a couple of troubleshooting areas that should be taken care of tomorrow, it's finally finished. 58 channel snake box with W4 Mass connectors. No transformers but will add those as budget permits. I need some blank panels to enclose the box and make it look pretty, but here it is.

**Remoteness** · 27th January 2007, 11:00 AM

Wow, I don't know what to say.

I don't want to come off offensive, so take it with a grain of salt because I truly care...

Question: Have you checked out these threads yet?

Whats the back of your rack look like?

steve, wiring racks and organization

bishopthomas · 27th January 2007, 07:02 PM

I am afraid to click those links because I know what it will tell me. :) I thought I added a disclaimer, but apparently I did not say that I know it looks like a bird's nest. It really got out of hand, and it didn't seem that bad until I put the panels in place and all the extra wire bunched up. I am considering starting over with the proper 3-conductor wire. I had a couple of wires pop off the middle of one of the Mass connectors and it is EXTREMELY difficult to get to.

On the positive side, my main rack with the gear in it looks great. I used wire ties on the input panel and all excess slack is tucked away in the side of the rack.

**Remoteness** · 27th January 2007, 07:32 PM

No worries my man, we have your back...

Two things:
If you're going to redo that work please read those threads.
Secondly, and perhaps most important; You must come by my field shop before you do any more wiring.
I feel you'll be a changed man after you see and hear what I got to say about fabrication and wiring.

Seeing is believing...

You have to come by and see for yourself.

Dr. Cuso · 30th January 2007, 11:40 PM

Hi!

I'm a long forum reader, here is solution I did to split signals.
(I do not have interior photos, but it was carefully wired).

Steve,

Would be hard for me to drive to the shop to hear all those good tips about fabrication and wiring, any chance to share them to all of us?

Regards

Alex.

**Remoteness** · 31st January 2007, 01:23 AM

Very nice spitter my man! Very nice indeed.

Sure, once we can setup a meeting at the field shop; maybe even have a few of you folks by at the same time; we'll take notes and photos and share it with all of you Remotesters out there...

Any takers? If so, let's start a list of people that want to come by...
We can do this on the thread gatekeeper already started called...
"Hey Remoteness would you mind...."

Then, we can continue the review at one of my gigs.

How does that sound to you folks?

bishopthomas · 31st January 2007, 02:15 AM

That's a great looking splitter. I have decided to save up a little money and add transformers while rewiring this mess I have on my hands. I bought a 25' 52 channel snake on eBay (for $35) that I am wiring right now for my house out split tail. That's a lot more channels than the 19 I just finished, so I'm not really looking forward to it.

bishopthomas · 15th March 2007, 02:32 AM

Well, I have faced the hard facts and realized that my snake box looked like utter dog doo-doo. So I have started over from scratch, using real mic cable and zip ties. I'm 18 channels into it (out of 58), so a long way to go, but it will be well worth it. I will add transformers as I can afford it, and will be ordering from crimsontransformers.com. As I add XFMR's I also plan to install ground lift switches.

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30th December 2006, 11:47 PM	#1
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	Multipin PITA I got some generic W4 connectors that are solder style rather than crimp. I saved a few hundred bucks so I won't complain too much, but let me just say.... What a pain in the ass. I've spent the last 3 days stripping (not that kind), tinning, and soldering. I only have a 16 channel snake, but I'm going to go ahead and connect the leads on all of the panel mount contacts so that I can easily add channels in the future. So let's see, 176 pins on each connector, times 2 = cramping hand and blurry vision. I've burned through all my Family Guy DVD's, so time for a break.

31st December 2006, 02:01 AM	#2
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Man, I know where you're coming from since we only have solder W4s in our inventory. We had a guy (he moved to Ohio) that wired them (one W3) in under four hours. This guy was simply awesome. I have never met a faster wiring tech since... He was even faster on XLRs and such. Zoom, Zoom, Zoom! Are you wiring it as per the Whirlwind Standard? Whirldwind Music splits the odd and even channels. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

31st December 2006, 10:05 AM	#4
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Man, these connectors can hold up for tens of years... All of our W4s are still in use and only one chassis mounted connector has a broken pin one (channel 49 or 50 I forget) which was damaged by a vidiot that did not know how to mate the connectors correctly... Thank goodness it was a tie line on one of our smaller systems -- We left it "pin one lifted" since it would be a serious pain in the "hands" to redo the 176 pin W4 for a ground pin on a tie line. You MUST always check for bent pins (usually the outer ones bend first) before your interconnect. If you are careful with these babies they will last a life time. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

31st December 2006, 08:49 PM	#7
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Make sure you use the right W4 wiring diagram for the input and outputs. The odd and even XLR channels swap when (in/out) are wired wrong. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

31st December 2006, 04:31 AM	#3
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	4 hours! My tip is too big and I've had to be very strategic about it. I started out doing the top pins, got the top row done before I realized that my tip would hit the pin above the one I was working on. So I had to start over, map it out, and start from the bottom left up. As soon as I find a decent electronics store I'm going to buy the smallest tip I can find. The only diagram I could find when I started was for a different size Mass connector. I couldn't (maybe didn't want to) figure out how to translate that to the W4 so I made up my own system (which makes more sense, by the way). I knew that it wouldn't be compatible with anyone else's system but I decided that I should own anything I need anyway, so I pressed on. After I started this thread I found the W4 diagram right where it's supposed to be, on the Whirlwind W3 PDF manual. So no, mine is completely botched at this point. I have decided to go with the standardized configuration because I know I'll either have to rent something (I won't be able to afford a 300' 58 channel snake for a while) or, more to my advantage, rent my splitter out. I haven't wired the XLR input panels yet, so the only thing I have to reconfigure will be the inline snake connector (48 pins). My panel mount wiring color coding will be shot, but that's alright. Steve, how well do yours hold up? I've been very careful about testing the strength of the solder joints and making sure I have no cold joints, but I dread the day I have to open it up and fix the one loose wire in the center of that mess. Maybe after I get a smaller tip I'll see that it's not so bad. The crimp style would be nice, but I got 4 W4's for a little more than the crimp tool kit costs, so I can't really complain.

31st December 2006, 03:50 PM	#5
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,294	Time to buy the right size tip, my friend! I have done both the solder and the crimp, and the solder is a much more solid connnector (for me, anyway!) and is more robust for our practices. When I have done crimp style W-connectors, I had more pins slip. The trick to fixing them in place is, I think, "perfect crimping" which is much harder than perfect soldering. When I operated a remote truck, we used 56-pr system and often subrented from other companies for larger jobs, extreme runs, or multi-stage events. In our first yeat of operation, we experienced bent or broken pins in various tails and trucks when we allowed house crews to make connections. Whirlwind repaired our broken pieces quickly and efficiently, and we firmly insisted from them on that no one except our crew be allowed to handle our interconnects. Cheers! Jim

31st December 2006, 06:54 PM	#6
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	That's what I was afraid of with the crimp style: easier to build and maintain, but not as sturdy. I will make sure that I am the only one making the connections. I shed a tear last night as I de-soldered the snake from the W4. At least now I'm on the road to standardization. I know if I don't fix it now then I'll be kicking myself later.

31st December 2006, 09:49 PM	#8
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	Yes, thank you. I had read that before and had it right in "my" system. My 16 channel snake is much too small for the built in W4 strain relief to even touch the cable. Do you have any suggestions and sources for strain reliefs?

1st January 2007, 06:51 AM	#9
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Kellem grips come in various sizes -- So. getting the right size for your application is not a problem at all. I forget who owns the Kellem grip line nowadays. Do a search -- I'd do it for you, but I'm on location with my VAIO Micro PC -- It's keyboard is too small for that right now. It took me forever to type this stuff in. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

1st January 2007, 09:54 AM	#10
gatekeeper Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 67	I bought those also bishop, but I still didn't buy my trunk yet, how are those holding up to the soldering, can you explain briefly your steps, are you tinning all the cables plus all the contacts or just the cables, starting from the top, bottom, left, right etc etc etc, any comments would be greatly appreciated.

1st January 2007, 12:26 PM	#11
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	IMO, you should tin the cables and fill the cups. I believe you should start the wiring from the middle out. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

1st January 2007, 06:28 PM	#12
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	Yes, definitely tin everything. The "prep" work is what sucks: cutting lengths of wire, stripping both ends, tinning both ends, filling the solder cups. After that it's just putting the wire on the contact and quickly hitting it with the iron. I work on all pins (or sockets) first, starting from the bottom left-right, then move up a row left-right. I learned this the hard way, like I said, by having to start over on a few channels because the iron would touch nearby contacts. I'm assuming you're right handed; if you're a lefty then you'll want to go right to left, as that's how your soldering iron will be pointed. Get the correct size iron tip before you even start, I wish I had. Print out the wiring diagram for both the input and output connectors to use as a guide. As you finish a set of 3 (+ - G) label it as the appropriate channel so that your panel mount XLR's will be easy. It's hard to see which wire is going to which pin after they're all in place. The only other tip I have is put your Mass connector in a vice so it stays in place. The snake end is the hard part, I think. The panel mounts are time consuming, but since you're dealing with individual wires then it's not that bad. Good luck with it, and maybe someone else will have some other words of wisdom, or even ways to improve my method.

2nd January 2007, 12:52 AM	#14
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Yes, you are right -- Hubble is the company I was trying to think of! Some folks also call the Hubble Kellums "Cord Grips." Here's a link to Hubble's Wiring Device Page - Kellums. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

14th January 2007, 12:06 AM	#15
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	Well, my multipinning days are finally coming to a close. I'm waiting on my rack, panels, and panel-mount XLR's for the snake box, then I can finish this project. Here's what I have so far: http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...mas/snake1.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...mas/snake2.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...mas/snake3.jpg

14th January 2007, 07:18 AM	#16
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Man, I bet you cannot wait until you finish this project. I'm curious why you didn't use shielded pairs for your chassis mounted connectors? Oh, here are the three pictures if you're too lazy to click on each of those links! Hey, I was bored so, I did my little thingy for you folks. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

14th January 2007, 09:41 AM	#18
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	I hope you don't find out about any RF or EMI problems the hard way because there's no going back while on location. Yeah, I really don't care too much about the thread length and such. I did resize the pictures and I layered all three into one file. GS does have a size limit when it comes to attachments. If I posted those pictures individually there would not have been any pixel issues. I lowered the quality of the picture so it fit under the GS attachment limit... My bad! __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

14th January 2007, 10:31 AM	#19
foldback Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 682	For max CMRR twist the pairs together (but don't include the ground wire in the twist). I use a variable speed electric drill with a keyless chuck, to get a nice even twist, don't go very fast. Use some needle nose pliers (or like) to hold the wire at the connector end. Release the wire out of the drill before releasiing the needle nose so the recoil doesn't bust your solder connections. If they're used as balanced lines induced hum or RF should not be a problem. An old ex-Navy tech showed me the electric drill technique years ago. I thought it was extreme until I tried it, really makes your wiring look good and work great. I replaced the headend on a small cruise ship this past spring. The old system had terrible problems with RF pushing in over the audio system, the ships antenna farm is directly over the sound system racks and equipment. The switching system that controls the routing between 11 different sound systems was all built with twisted pairs (not twisted shielded pair cable), we did use tsp from the switching to the wall mounted terminal box. I had a $100 bet that the my replacement system would not receive any radio interference. All the audio paths throughout the headend (which I built) are balanced. We tested it extensively using different VHF and UHF radio transceivers, there was no interference. Best of luck with it. How about posting some picts when you get the whole thing done. The pictures look ok on my dual 17" Samsung LCD monitors. They look like good internet jpg

14th January 2007, 05:59 PM	#20
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	Thanks for the tips, that's a great idea to use a drill. I will definitely post pictures after I get the rack put together (probably Wed/Thurs).

14th January 2007, 08:04 PM	#21
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,294	Lookin' Good! I like the pics. This week I had me plus four techs doing maintenance on an install I did in 2005, Went deep into the 40RU racks to the punchdowns as we fixed pics and problems in the W4 connectors. Be happy you went with 16/24 channels, not the full 56 pair. What a drag THAT was. The drill twist is a good fabication technique. Most important is to keep them CONSISTENT so the pairs respond identically to RFI/EMI. When you find ONE pair that was not twisted right (like I did this week on ch 15) that can really blow, especially when there are four terminations coming together in the terminal block. jim

27th January 2007, 07:49 AM	#22
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	Besides a couple of troubleshooting areas that should be taken care of tomorrow, it's finally finished. 58 channel snake box with W4 Mass connectors. No transformers but will add those as budget permits. I need some blank panels to enclose the box and make it look pretty, but here it is.

27th January 2007, 11:00 AM	#23
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Wow, I don't know what to say. I don't want to come off offensive, so take it with a grain of salt because I truly care... Question: Have you checked out these threads yet? Whats the back of your rack look like? steve, wiring racks and organization __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

27th January 2007, 07:02 PM	#24
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	I am afraid to click those links because I know what it will tell me. :) I thought I added a disclaimer, but apparently I did not say that I know it looks like a bird's nest. It really got out of hand, and it didn't seem that bad until I put the panels in place and all the extra wire bunched up. I am considering starting over with the proper 3-conductor wire. I had a couple of wires pop off the middle of one of the Mass connectors and it is EXTREMELY difficult to get to. On the positive side, my main rack with the gear in it looks great. I used wire ties on the input panel and all excess slack is tucked away in the side of the rack.

27th January 2007, 07:32 PM	#25
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	No worries my man, we have your back... Two things: If you're going to redo that work please read those threads. Secondly, and perhaps most important; You must come by my field shop before you do any more wiring. I feel you'll be a changed man after you see and hear what I got to say about fabrication and wiring. Seeing is believing... You have to come by and see for yourself. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

30th January 2007, 11:40 PM	#26
Dr. Cuso Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Monterrey MX Posts: 25	Hi! I'm a long forum reader, here is solution I did to split signals. (I do not have interior photos, but it was carefully wired). Steve, Would be hard for me to drive to the shop to hear all those good tips about fabrication and wiring, any chance to share them to all of us? Regards Alex. __________________ http://www.apex.com.mx SAWStudio VIP Affiliate

31st January 2007, 01:23 AM	#27
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Very nice spitter my man! Very nice indeed. Sure, once we can setup a meeting at the field shop; maybe even have a few of you folks by at the same time; we'll take notes and photos and share it with all of you Remotesters out there... Any takers? If so, let's start a list of people that want to come by... We can do this on the thread gatekeeper already started called... "Hey Remoteness would you mind...." Then, we can continue the review at one of my gigs. How does that sound to you folks? __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

31st January 2007, 02:15 AM	#28
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	That's a great looking splitter. I have decided to save up a little money and add transformers while rewiring this mess I have on my hands. I bought a 25' 52 channel snake on eBay (for $35) that I am wiring right now for my house out split tail. That's a lot more channels than the 19 I just finished, so I'm not really looking forward to it.

15th March 2007, 02:32 AM	#29
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	Well, I have faced the hard facts and realized that my snake box looked like utter dog doo-doo. So I have started over from scratch, using real mic cable and zip ties. I'm 18 channels into it (out of 58), so a long way to go, but it will be well worth it. I will add transformers as I can afford it, and will be ordering from crimsontransformers.com. As I add XFMR's I also plan to install ground lift switches.