sm57 on acoustic guitar

Stoneroses6300 · 29th December 2006

I actually like the sound of the 57 on the acoustic guitar but sometimes it sounds like it's a bit out of tune even though the acoustic is perfectly in tune...There is some sort of weird phase effect sometimes in the mid frequencys that make it sound a bit out of tune...I like the dynamic feel of the recorded acoustic guitar using it though...It brings out a lot of the guitar....Let me know though if anyone has had this experience...I may have to get another mic specifically for acoustic...I'm looking for a grainy more wooden type of sound...In a professional studio 5 months ago, they stereo miced an acoustic guitar for a track and it was way to bright and *** for an acoustic in my eyes...So I'm looking for something darker I suppose

Raw-Tracks · 29th December 2006

It's not completely unusual to use a '57 on an acoustic. For you to say it sounds out of tune is strange though. A mic will not make an instrument sound out of tune. It could be you just don't like the sound of the '57 on that guitar.

Bump Music · 29th December 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneroses6300

I actually like the sound of the 57 on the acoustic guitar but sometimes it sounds like it's a bit out of tune even though the acoustic is perfectly in tune...There is some sort of weird phase effect sometimes in the mid frequencys that make it sound a bit out of tune...I like the dynamic feel of the recorded acoustic guitar using it though...It brings out a lot of the guitar....Let me know though if anyone has had this experience...I may have to get another mic specifically for acoustic...I'm looking for a grainy more wooden type of sound...In a professional studio 5 months ago, they stereo miced an acoustic guitar for a track and it was way to bright and *** for an acoustic in my eyes...So I'm looking for something darker I suppose

Love the 57 on certain kinds of acoustic strumming. Depends on what kind of music. But I've never had an out of tune problem with a 57. There are definitely more frequencies that pop in and out with a 57 more than other mics... but not out of tune for me. Good luck.

29th December 2006

Hi,

What about using a much flater response and more detailed electrostatic (condenser) microphone?

Rent or lend a very good one to experience the difference...

Regards,
Laurent

Brian Middleton · 30th December 2006

For a "woody" sound the best thing I've found was an AKG 414 in omni, up pretty close to the soundboard. It had an organic, old-school quality, but with a little more detail and a little smoother midrange than you'd get out of a 57.

hopeless_opus · 30th December 2006

are you sure it isn't your tuner, or maybe playing technique? it's likely you bend the strings a little as you play w/o realizing it.

TheRigaletto · 30th December 2006

I've had the same this happen to me but mine was almost definitly phase. I used a condensor on the soundhole and a 57 on the board and it definitly had some cancelation.

bachconnelly · 30th December 2006

Just a note on guitar tuning..... If you are tuning your guitar with an electric tuner and all of the strings are in tune, that means that the instrument itself will definitely not play in tune as you fret notes. There are many better ways to tune guitars for the various keys you might be playing in, but fretted string instruments will never play in tune. The close proximity of the mic will make the ill tuning seem more apparent because the blending of overtones along with a room has not happened. This may be why it sounds in tune to your ears while playing but out of tune after close miking.

D-

Stevil · 30th December 2006

intonation?

Raw-Tracks · 30th December 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Middleton

For a "woody" sound the best thing I've found was an AKG 414 in omni, up pretty close to the soundboard. It had an organic, old-school quality, but with a little more detail and a little smoother midrange than you'd get out of a 57.

I love using omni's on acoustic guitars. You can get in close with an omni and not have the proximity effect that you get with a directional mic. I almost always prefer an omni on acoustic.

Acoustic Cloud · 30th December 2006

interesting...mic has nothing to do with tuning on a guitar, if its out, its out. If its not, its not. There is no phasing with a single mic either. Your room may be untreated, and that can sound worse yet. A 57 has to be so close to an acoustic also, that you may be hearing a funny warbly deal with the guitar top, that you wouldnt with a better mic and/or guitar.

Half of this explanation is just fun, the other half is real.

Its not the mic,... but a 57 for acoustic is just pure poop. I dont care how many huge albums in the last 52 years its been used on, its just not good anymore. Many had wooden ears back then, so, so be it!

goobersezhey · 30th December 2006

Just under the wire, we have a winner for the most pointless post of 2006.

DeeDrive · 30th December 2006

I'm really into a 57 and an omni condenser on acoustic right now, usually an AT4050.

The 57 really is the most versatile mic there is, IMO. People who rip on it or call it "poo" are usually just beginners who still believe more $$ equals better sound.

As far as being out of tune, you might want to play around with this mic a little more and do some experimenting, because this is most likely all in your head. Try putting another mic right next to the 57 and recording both signals, then compare the too, and see if you hear this on both mics.

Posting some sound clips would help too.

Stoneroses6300 · 30th December 2006

Thanks for all the responces...It's really just this one part specifically. I'm going to re-record that part specifically today and see what happens...Out of the blue, anyone try those rode nt5's on acoustic? I was suggested them pretty hard by a couple people...

Midlandmorgan · 30th December 2006

Personally I don't care much for a 57 on most acoustics - just not enough detail for my liking...BUT they can be just the ticket for Nashville tuned guitars, that sometimes can come off way to detailed for what they are meant to do...

I have had great success using EV RE16s on acoustics...that seems to be a dynamic that works on even the most delicate things...

Dickens · 30th December 2006

Has anyone tried the ShinyBox mic on an acoustic guitar?
I've heard dirty guitar samples and it sounds really good. Won't break the bank either.

Acoustic Cloud · 30th December 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by goobersezhey

Just under the wire, we have a winner for the most pointless post of 2006.

THANKS GOOBER!!

I hadn't won anything this year yet !!

Timothy Lawler · 30th December 2006

A 57 has always sounded kind of hard and thin to me on acoustic. Might fit just right for a backing track sometime. I don't see how a mic would make a gtr sound out of tune except that it might emphasize certain characteristics of the sound that would highlight one thing or another.

RusRant · 30th December 2006

I've used 57's a lot live on acoustic, but don't think I've done it while recording. My fav cheap dynamic for acoustic is a transformerless shure BG 1.0 actually. The low detail sound of this mic stacks very well when layering acoustic guitar tracks. Very low end I know.

WDG · 31st December 2006

I just had a thought as to what might be the problem. Are you using a metal music stand in front of the guitar? Many studios put a piece of carpet or something on the stand to stop reflections from music stand. I even read an article once on how to use a music stand to emulate the sound of a dobro using a regular guitar.

Windtaken · 1st January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneroses6300

I actually like the sound of the 57 on the acoustic guitar but sometimes it sounds like it's a bit out of tune even though the acoustic is perfectly in tune...There is some sort of weird phase effect sometimes in the mid frequencys that make it sound a bit out of tune...I like the dynamic feel of the recorded acoustic guitar using it though...It brings out a lot of the guitar....Let me know though if anyone has had this experience...I may have to get another mic specifically for acoustic...I'm looking for a grainy more wooden type of sound...In a professional studio 5 months ago, they stereo miced an acoustic guitar for a track and it was way to bright and *** for an acoustic in my eyes...So I'm looking for something darker I suppose

phasey effect but not out of tune?
have you considered bad room reflections?

What is the other mic you are using that doesn't get the phasey problem? Is it cardioid too? Do you aim it at the guitar the same way?

bachconnelly · 1st January 2007

Just for fun, I stuck a 57 on my acoustic for this post's sake. I found out that...... My guitar stays in tune... I am guessing there is a room problem for you and that is causing the phase issue. I heard no weird phasing either. I A/B'd the 57 to my 4040 and other than much better quality for the 4040, the phasing and tuning seemed to be about the same.

D-

Eide · 2nd January 2007

I use the 57 for acoustics from time to time, but usually in contexts where a midrangy ac gtr can fit well in.

But I have also recorded whole tracks just using a 57 or two - Listen to the track The Casino Brawl with the very talented up and coming english singer/songwriter Luke Pickett on http://myspace.com/lukepickett

All the acoustic guitars (and everything else, except vocals which was cut with a Blue Kiwi>Vipre) was recorded with a couple of 57'ens into a racked pair of some old bbc Audix 35102 pre's. I had to wrestle a bit with them in the mix, but I achieved what wanted out of the recordings. The mp3 quality is not of the best it seems, however one can get the picture; it is possible to make good acoustic recordings with an SM57. In my opinion at least.

29th December 2006	#1
Stoneroses6300 Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 672 Thread Starter	sm57 on acoustic guitar I actually like the sound of the 57 on the acoustic guitar but sometimes it sounds like it's a bit out of tune even though the acoustic is perfectly in tune...There is some sort of weird phase effect sometimes in the mid frequencys that make it sound a bit out of tune...I like the dynamic feel of the recorded acoustic guitar using it though...It brings out a lot of the guitar....Let me know though if anyone has had this experience...I may have to get another mic specifically for acoustic...I'm looking for a grainy more wooden type of sound...In a professional studio 5 months ago, they stereo miced an acoustic guitar for a track and it was way to bright and *** for an acoustic in my eyes...So I'm looking for something darker I suppose

29th December 2006	#2
Raw-Tracks Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 655	It's not completely unusual to use a '57 on an acoustic. For you to say it sounds out of tune is strange though. A mic will not make an instrument sound out of tune. It could be you just don't like the sound of the '57 on that guitar. __________________ Eric Practice Your Mixing Skills! Mix Our Tracks in Your DAW! www.Raw-Tracks.com

30th December 2006	#7
TheRigaletto Gear maniac Joined: Jun 2006 Location: Perrysburg, Oh Posts: 210	I've had the same this happen to me but mine was almost definitly phase. I used a condensor on the soundhole and a 57 on the board and it definitly had some cancelation. __________________ Play a note wrong once...it's wrong...play it twice...it's jazz...

30th December 2006	#8
bachconnelly Gear nut Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 116	Tuning and such Just a note on guitar tuning..... If you are tuning your guitar with an electric tuner and all of the strings are in tune, that means that the instrument itself will definitely not play in tune as you fret notes. There are many better ways to tune guitars for the various keys you might be playing in, but fretted string instruments will never play in tune. The close proximity of the mic will make the ill tuning seem more apparent because the blending of overtones along with a room has not happened. This may be why it sounds in tune to your ears while playing but out of tune after close miking. D-

30th December 2006	#11
Acoustic Cloud Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2006 Location: around the corner Posts: 1,990	interesting...mic has nothing to do with tuning on a guitar, if its out, its out. If its not, its not. There is no phasing with a single mic either. Your room may be untreated, and that can sound worse yet. A 57 has to be so close to an acoustic also, that you may be hearing a funny warbly deal with the guitar top, that you wouldnt with a better mic and/or guitar. Half of this explanation is just fun, the other half is real. Its not the mic,... but a 57 for acoustic is just pure poop. I dont care how many huge albums in the last 52 years its been used on, its just not good anymore. Many had wooden ears back then, so, so be it! __________________ If the Earth wasnt created, where'd all the dirt come from?

29th December 2006	#4
High Fidelity Guest Posts: n/a	Hi, What about using a much flater response and more detailed electrostatic (condenser) microphone? Rent or lend a very good one to experience the difference... Regards, Laurent

30th December 2006	#5
Brian Middleton Gear addict Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Dorchester, Mass., USA Posts: 393	For a "woody" sound the best thing I've found was an AKG 414 in omni, up pretty close to the soundboard. It had an organic, old-school quality, but with a little more detail and a little smoother midrange than you'd get out of a 57.

30th December 2006	#6
hopeless_opus Gear addict Joined: May 2005 Posts: 429	are you sure it isn't your tuner, or maybe playing technique? it's likely you bend the strings a little as you play w/o realizing it.

30th December 2006	#9
Stevil Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,193	intonation?

30th December 2006	#12
goobersezhey Gear maniac Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 248	Just under the wire, we have a winner for the most pointless post of 2006.

30th December 2006	#13
DeeDrive Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Location: Hillsboro, OR Posts: 986	I'm really into a 57 and an omni condenser on acoustic right now, usually an AT4050. The 57 really is the most versatile mic there is, IMO. People who rip on it or call it "poo" are usually just beginners who still believe more $$ equals better sound. As far as being out of tune, you might want to play around with this mic a little more and do some experimenting, because this is most likely all in your head. Try putting another mic right next to the 57 and recording both signals, then compare the too, and see if you hear this on both mics. Posting some sound clips would help too. __________________ "When life gives you lemons, just say f@*k the lemons and bail" http://www.myspace.com/mattdistad http://www.myspace.com/froghollowdaycamp

30th December 2006	#15
Midlandmorgan Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Midland TX Posts: 1,120	Personally I don't care much for a 57 on most acoustics - just not enough detail for my liking...BUT they can be just the ticket for Nashville tuned guitars, that sometimes can come off way to detailed for what they are meant to do... I have had great success using EV RE16s on acoustics...that seems to be a dynamic that works on even the most delicate things... __________________ Ken Morgan Wireline Studio Midland, TX Good Sound Starts With Good Gear - Great Sound Starts With Great Players

30th December 2006	#16
Dickens Gear maniac Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 165	Has anyone tried the ShinyBox mic on an acoustic guitar? I've heard dirty guitar samples and it sounds really good. Won't break the bank either.

30th December 2006	#18
Timothy Lawler Gear addict Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 319	A 57 has always sounded kind of hard and thin to me on acoustic. Might fit just right for a backing track sometime. I don't see how a mic would make a gtr sound out of tune except that it might emphasize certain characteristics of the sound that would highlight one thing or another.

30th December 2006	#19
RusRant Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2006 Location: B'ham, AL Posts: 998	I've used 57's a lot live on acoustic, but don't think I've done it while recording. My fav cheap dynamic for acoustic is a transformerless shure BG 1.0 actually. The low detail sound of this mic stacks very well when layering acoustic guitar tracks. Very low end I know.

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31st December 2006	#20
WDG Gear Head Joined: Nov 2003 Location: N. TX Posts: 59	I just had a thought as to what might be the problem. Are you using a metal music stand in front of the guitar? Many studios put a piece of carpet or something on the stand to stop reflections from music stand. I even read an article once on how to use a music stand to emulate the sound of a dobro using a regular guitar.

1st January 2007	#22
bachconnelly Gear nut Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 116	Just for fun, I stuck a 57 on my acoustic for this post's sake. I found out that...... My guitar stays in tune... I am guessing there is a room problem for you and that is causing the phase issue. I heard no weird phasing either. I A/B'd the 57 to my 4040 and other than much better quality for the 4040, the phasing and tuning seemed to be about the same. D-

2nd January 2007	#23
Eide Gear addict Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo/London Posts: 321	I use the 57 for acoustics from time to time, but usually in contexts where a midrangy ac gtr can fit well in. But I have also recorded whole tracks just using a 57 or two - Listen to the track The Casino Brawl with the very talented up and coming english singer/songwriter Luke Pickett on http://myspace.com/lukepickett All the acoustic guitars (and everything else, except vocals which was cut with a Blue Kiwi>Vipre) was recorded with a couple of 57'ens into a racked pair of some old bbc Audix 35102 pre's. I had to wrestle a bit with them in the mix, but I achieved what wanted out of the recordings. The mp3 quality is not of the best it seems, however one can get the picture; it is possible to make good acoustic recordings with an SM57. In my opinion at least.