Elegant solutions for baffling of figure eights

klaukholm · 27th December 2006, 01:06 PM

I am looking for unobtrusive baffling options for figure eight mics for use in symphonic recording sessions.

I would love to see pictures of the solutions used at the LA the scoring stages.

Ideally I would find something that is light enough to be used on the same stand as a 6lbs mic hovering over a violin stand.

I am half thinking of using a schneider disc or something similar.

fifthcircle · 27th December 2006, 11:02 PM

Don't know if this will work for you, but I'm usually just careful about positioning of the mics and don't use baffles. I usually will place a fig-8 mic in such a way that the rear lobe is just capturing ambient information (ie pointing up towards the ceiling). When this is done, the natural null around the microphone is great for isolation from instruments that are close to the microphone.

In situations (such as a harp) where it is difficult to do this, I may place a standard studio gobo near the instrument to isolate the entire thing a bit- not just the mic. Either that or I use a directional ribbon such as a Beyer 160 where it isn't an issue.

--Ben

klaukholm · 27th December 2006, 11:13 PM

Thanks Ben,
That is good advice and what we usually do.
occationally we get engineers through that like to baffle (particularly the trumpet rca 44/coles 4038) and I figure it would be a good thing to have a few tools ready for the one time I have to baffle.
I would also like to experiment with a drier sound from the spots.

I quite liked the pics of Steve remotes "virtual baffle". Simple easy and probably quite effective.

I might make sure I always have a few of those ready just in case.

**Remoteness** · 28th December 2006, 01:28 AM

I have modified Popper Stopper pop filters with cardboard, foam and/or duvee.

In your case, I would flex the gooseneck to be right behind the figure 8 ribbon mic.

The photo below shows the Popper Stopper "Micro Gobo" used in between the drummer and bassist to help isolate the drums from the bass mic.

sonare · 31st December 2006, 01:17 AM

I use something similar when micing upright on location jazz stuff. Otherwise one gets a ride cymbal spot mic.

For the ribbon-- the guys at Royer cautioned against a rear lobe baffle because of the proximity side effects. I have not tried anything on the SF12, but using only one channel and being conscious of the side null is quite useful.

Rich

Balz · 3rd January 2007, 03:13 AM

http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

sonare · 3rd January 2007, 03:22 AM

The baffle looks interesting, but what would the side effects of intruding into the rear lobe proximity zone be? That is exactly what the Royer folks warned against.

Remember, the figure 8 does NOT behave the same as a cardioid in that regard.

Rich

klaukholm · 3rd January 2007, 07:29 AM

I am a little concerned about the oval shape as I imagine it would focus reflections back at the mic.
I would rather have something that is of a hemispheric shape even though it would isolate less.
The baffle does look interesting for certain uses though and it might well be worth checking out.

**Remoteness** · 3rd January 2007, 07:51 AM

With regard to the figure 8 setup, I bet the further back you place the baffle the better.

Yannick · 3rd January 2007, 02:10 PM

Not elegant and impossible to fit in an orchestra, but it worked in this case (pianoforte in church: either too close for the instrument, or too wet but a good overall sound).

I angled the baffle in such a way that there could not be a direct reflection into the back of the SF12. Should work on small/closer baffles as well.

fifthcircle · 3rd January 2007, 06:33 PM

I've done something similar to what Yannick did with my SF-24 in rooms that were too live. For a session, I'll set the group facing a curtain with the mic's rear lobes facing into the curtain to minimize reflections.

--Ben

theonlymagicalp · 15th February 2007, 08:14 PM

Why would you use a figure 8 pattern mic if you're going to mask one side? Did I missed something?

Moreover, from my experience with ribbon mics, baffling the rear side of a mic tends to change its response quite dramatically - depending on distance- and rarely for any better...

**Remoteness** · 15th February 2007, 08:29 PM

Sometime you may want to use a figure 8 ribbon mic and attenuate the rear lobe a bit.

Completely baffling the rear side of the mic does change its response and I would not try that.
I have found that it can work well for you when you distance the micro gobo a fair amount.

Sometimes you got to do what you got to do...

YMMV

klaukholm · 16th February 2007, 12:17 AM

Mostly I like my 44bx, and sometimes need to attenuate the rear lobe.

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27th December 2006, 01:06 PM	#1
klaukholm Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 1,248	Elegant solutions for baffling of figure eights I am looking for unobtrusive baffling options for figure eight mics for use in symphonic recording sessions. I would love to see pictures of the solutions used at the LA the scoring stages. Ideally I would find something that is light enough to be used on the same stand as a 6lbs mic hovering over a violin stand. I am half thinking of using a schneider disc or something similar. __________________ Kjetil Laukholm European Classical Records CK Recording

27th December 2006, 11:02 PM	#2
fifthcircle Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,304	Don't know if this will work for you, but I'm usually just careful about positioning of the mics and don't use baffles. I usually will place a fig-8 mic in such a way that the rear lobe is just capturing ambient information (ie pointing up towards the ceiling). When this is done, the natural null around the microphone is great for isolation from instruments that are close to the microphone. In situations (such as a harp) where it is difficult to do this, I may place a standard studio gobo near the instrument to isolate the entire thing a bit- not just the mic. Either that or I use a directional ribbon such as a Beyer 160 where it isn't an issue. --Ben __________________ Benjamin Maas Fifth Circle Audio Long Beach, CA http://www.fifthcircle.com

27th December 2006, 11:13 PM	#3
klaukholm Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 1,248	Thanks Ben, That is good advice and what we usually do. occationally we get engineers through that like to baffle (particularly the trumpet rca 44/coles 4038) and I figure it would be a good thing to have a few tools ready for the one time I have to baffle. I would also like to experiment with a drier sound from the spots. I quite liked the pics of Steve remotes "virtual baffle". Simple easy and probably quite effective. I might make sure I always have a few of those ready just in case. __________________ Kjetil Laukholm European Classical Records CK Recording

28th December 2006, 01:28 AM	#4
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	I have modified Popper Stopper pop filters with cardboard, foam and/or duvee. In your case, I would flex the gooseneck to be right behind the figure 8 ribbon mic. The photo below shows the Popper Stopper "Micro Gobo" used in between the drummer and bassist to help isolate the drums from the bass mic. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

31st December 2006, 01:17 AM	#5
sonare Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: southeast Posts: 509	I use something similar when micing upright on location jazz stuff. Otherwise one gets a ride cymbal spot mic. For the ribbon-- the guys at Royer cautioned against a rear lobe baffle because of the proximity side effects. I have not tried anything on the SF12, but using only one channel and being conscious of the side null is quite useful. Rich __________________ Sonare Recordings www.sonarerecordings.com

3rd January 2007, 03:13 AM	#6
Balz Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 27	http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

3rd January 2007, 03:22 AM	#7
sonare Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: southeast Posts: 509	The baffle looks interesting, but what would the side effects of intruding into the rear lobe proximity zone be? That is exactly what the Royer folks warned against. Remember, the figure 8 does NOT behave the same as a cardioid in that regard. Rich __________________ Sonare Recordings www.sonarerecordings.com

3rd January 2007, 07:29 AM	#8
klaukholm Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 1,248	I am a little concerned about the oval shape as I imagine it would focus reflections back at the mic. I would rather have something that is of a hemispheric shape even though it would isolate less. The baffle does look interesting for certain uses though and it might well be worth checking out. __________________ Kjetil Laukholm European Classical Records CK Recording

3rd January 2007, 07:51 AM	#9
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	With regard to the figure 8 setup, I bet the further back you place the baffle the better. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

3rd January 2007, 02:10 PM	#10
Yannick Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Brussels Posts: 418	Not elegant and impossible to fit in an orchestra, but it worked in this case (pianoforte in church: either too close for the instrument, or too wet but a good overall sound). I angled the baffle in such a way that there could not be a direct reflection into the back of the SF12. Should work on small/closer baffles as well. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Yannick Willox www.acousticrecordingservice.be (mobile recording)

3rd January 2007, 06:33 PM	#11
fifthcircle Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,304	I've done something similar to what Yannick did with my SF-24 in rooms that were too live. For a session, I'll set the group facing a curtain with the mic's rear lobes facing into the curtain to minimize reflections. --Ben __________________ Benjamin Maas Fifth Circle Audio Long Beach, CA http://www.fifthcircle.com

15th February 2007, 08:14 PM	#12
theonlymagicalp Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Smelly Cheese Country. Posts: 10	Why would you use a figure 8 pattern mic if you're going to mask one side? Did I missed something? Moreover, from my experience with ribbon mics, baffling the rear side of a mic tends to change its response quite dramatically - depending on distance- and rarely for any better... __________________ Always Pig...

15th February 2007, 08:29 PM	#13
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Sometime you may want to use a figure 8 ribbon mic and attenuate the rear lobe a bit. Completely baffling the rear side of the mic does change its response and I would not try that. I have found that it can work well for you when you distance the micro gobo a fair amount. Sometimes you got to do what you got to do... YMMV __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

16th February 2007, 12:17 AM	#14
klaukholm Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 1,248	Mostly I like my 44bx, and sometimes need to attenuate the rear lobe. __________________ Kjetil Laukholm European Classical Records CK Recording

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