Clean mic pre vs colored pre

[DAREDFACE]

What it do?
...I've gone back and forth with a lot of engineers @ my school about clean pres vs colored pres but non of them have 2 much experience in Hip-Hop or RnB. How do yall feel about this. Is a clean Pre too clean for Hip-Hop vocal and stereo tracking?

I've been offered a good price on a Amek DMCl for a good price. It has the Digital output option. I'm weighing that against a Chandler Germanium (1 channel)

O n I hate the Avalon 737. I have the 747 tho
Holla

[TonyBelmont]

Not just "colored pre's", but the right kind of color is what I prefer. Typically Neve or API!

[Paul David]

Originally Posted by DAREDFACE

What it do?
...I've gone back and forth with a lot of engineers @ my school about clean pres vs colored pres but non of them have 2 much experience in Hip-Hop or RnB. How do yall feel about this. Is a clean Pre too clean for Hip-Hop vocal and stereo tracking?

I've been offered a good price on a Amek DMCl for a good price. It has the Digital output option. I'm weighing that against a Chandler Germanium (1 channel)

O n I hate the Avalon 737. I have the 747 tho
Holla

Both... I use Milennia and Great River and while each one would be cool as an only pre each one works with each singer and mic combo in a different way. For instance, My favorite rapper sounds great on Phantom>Millenia my favorite Male vocalist is L47> Great River (pushed hard to bring out some of the grit) and my favorite Female vocalist is 251 > Millenia.

I haven't tried the AMEK and from the audio samples I've heard of the Germanium I would NOT want that as my only pre. And I hate the 737 too.

[DAREDFACE]

Originally Posted by Paul David

Both... I use Milennia and Great River and while each one would be cool as an only pre each one works with each singer and mic combo in a different way. For instance, My favorite rapper sounds great on Phantom>Millenia my favorite Male vocalist is L47> Great River (pushed hard to bring out some of the grit) and my favorite Female vocalist is 251 > Millenia.

I haven't tried the AMEK and from the audio samples I've heard of the Germanium I would NOT want that as my only pre. And I hate the 737 too.

THANKS. Well the AMEK guy flaked so ima look further into the Germanium. Ima rent it at audio rents here in Hollywood and see what its talkin bout.
I only really need 1 channel but i plan on selling my Avalon 747 for a Duende soon so i lookin at 2 channel models too. That Millenia TD-1 looked crazy tho

[DAREDFACE]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Not just "colored pre's", but the right kind of color is what I prefer. Typically Neve or API!

Well being the fact i cant afford a Neve (Well maybe a portico 5012), what do you think about the Vintech stuff Tony? Particularly the 2 channel stuff.

I realy like the 610 part of the 6176. I liked the fact it had the 2 impedance switches. Any other pres u could recomend with multiple impedance switches
Thanks a million

O HERES a link to our site if you wanna check out our music, peace

WWW.VIGILANTEZ.COM

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by DAREDFACE

Well being the fact i cant afford a Neve (Well maybe a portico 5012), what do you think about the Vintech stuff Tony? Particularly the 2 channel stuff.

I realy like the 610 part of the 6176. I liked the fact it had the 2 impedance switches. Any other pres u could recomend with multiple impedance switches
Thanks a million

O HERES a link to our site if you wanna check out our music, peace

WWW.VIGILANTEZ.COM

Why do you need multiple impedance switches? Are you using ribbons?

I don't recommend the Vintech's or UA 610 preamp, because I am not a fan for one reason or another. I do recommend something like an API, or A Designs 500 series preamp in a lunchbox, or a Brent Averill 1272. That will give you the API or Neve flavors that I prefer. If you have a little more money, other options open up like the API A2D, A Designs Pacifica, Aurora Audio GTQ2mkIII, or Brent Averill 1073's.

[Paul David]

Originally Posted by DAREDFACE

THANKS. Well the AMEK guy flaked so ima look further into the Germanium. Ima rent it at audio rents here in Hollywood and see what its talkin bout.
I only really need 1 channel but i plan on selling my Avalon 747 for a Duende soon so i lookin at 2 channel models too. That Millenia TD-1 looked crazy tho

The TD-1 is crazy. It's a very fast clean pre with tons of detail and a big low end. The DI is VERY cool, the tube and SS channels sound great. The reamping features are a big plus and the EQ is sweet. All that for under $1500.

Best of luck!

[Max headroom]

Could You kindly answer why is 737 so bad and hated . I owe one and I am really happy with it ..... For softer stuff it is better sounding then Presonus ADL 600 , or Focusrite red ...... UA 610 iz far inferior ( at least to me ) ..... please enlighten me ...



Cheers


Max

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by Max headroom

Could You kindly answer why is 737 so bad and hated . I owe one and I am really happy with it ..... For softer stuff it is better sounding then Presonus ADL 600 , or Focusrite red ...... UA 610 iz far inferior ( at least to me ) ..... please enlighten me ...

i, for one, love the 737. the preamp sounds fantastic to me and the equalizer is quite usable.... it's the compression section that disappoints me.

i haven't had the chance to use the 610 preamps but i am hoping they aren't far inferior to the Avalons because the price is right on the 6176 and i am thinking about getting one (based on reputation). i am going to have to possibly rent a 6176 so i can A/B it with the 737 and see how i feel then.

i don't know why there are so many Avalon haters.... maybe because they are not the "new" product on the block and their "hype" has died down for now.... but seriously the 737's preamp section sounds like creamy butter to me -- it just totally opens up my mics and allows for great vocal recordings. i don't know about its uses in rap though.


~j.d.

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I don't recommend the Vintech's or UA 610 preamp, because I am not a fan for one reason or another.

Tony, why do you not like the UA preamps? i am assuming it's because you want that Neve or API character/coloration?

just wondering....



~j.d.

[Max headroom]

Thank You for the answer , and I agree with you . I don't use compressor and eq iz great , especialy in hi freq region .... It has far greater headroom than UA 610 ( beware of that ) and It has been used in hip hop and rap very often ..... so I really don't know .... people are talking about like it is 100 $ pre .....


Cheers


Max

[Paul David]

Originally Posted by Max headroom

Could You kindly answer why is 737 so bad and hated . I owe one and I am really happy with it ..... For softer stuff it is better sounding then Presonus ADL 600 , or Focusrite red ...... UA 610 iz far inferior ( at least to me ) ..... please enlighten me ...



Cheers


Max

I'll take a stab at this one. When I said I "Hate" The 737 I overstated my feelings for it. For instance, I really do hate that little ART tube pre. It makes everything sound like garbage. The 737 does not do that.

Back around 2000 when I was making some of my first big ticket gear purchases it was high on my list. Everybody in my area was acting like it was the best pre ever. So I went into my local pro gear shop and got them to give me the "studio room" for a couple hours and I tried three preamps and about 10 different mics. The preamp trial went something like this.

001 pres- Well there's sound coming through them.
737- Ummm, am I missing something? Maybe my ears are broken but it doesn't sound any better than the 001. Maybe a little softer around the edges but not necessarily better.
Millenia Origin- HOLY CRAP! Is that the same mic? I freaking love this pre.

When I tweaked the EQ and the comp on the 737 I grew to realize that I did like the EQ but it was just a sweetener. Not really groundbreaking. The comp was fairly useless on the sources I was testing (guitar and vox).

The EQ on the Origin was brilliant. Limitless tone shaping abillities.

I've tried the 737 a few times since then and I've never shaken those first impressions. It sounds really pedestrian to me. In this day and age there are some brilliant pre's out there. Everything from $200 per channel Syteks (Which smoke the 737 to me) all the way up to several thousand per channel esoteric stuff. And at $1300 per channel the 737 sounds like prosumer gear to me.


OTOH, Everyone's ears are different and some folks may love the 737... From now on I'll try to refrain from bashing it because I don't want to make someone who loves it start second guessing their gear. It definitely will NOT stop you from creating hit records.


Peace, Paul

[Syki]

A Designs Mp2a with an Atty gives me the right sound color wise.
Also My Summit TPA200b is amazing....it's kind of subjective you gotta really
try them all (I know thats hard to do)

There is no 1 right one ....no matter what Tony says....lol only kidding Tony

But can you believe some idiot said you can't use a Access Virus in Hip Hop!

Same thing with clean or colored Mic Pre's....there are no set rules use what works for you....to achieve the disired effect you need!!!Originality...BABE... is the key!

[Emi]

i have a 737, UA610, a Red pre in da studio and first of all you can compare the 737 with the Red cuz you´re talking about 2 different types of pre´s...and for smooth low voice...I defenettly prefer the Red...for me it´s full of details and it sounds "expensive" (to say it that way)...the 737 is poor...it doesn´t give me anything specially with voices (male or female or rapper voices)...for me it´s not creamy...it´s just dirty sounding....but in a bad way to me....

now in my opinion u can compare the 737 with UA610...and I prefer the UA610....it´s creamy...and it sounds open...and it does it work very good...I like it..

and by the way....the Red has a huge headroom....

just my opinion!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

Tony, why do you not like the UA preamps? i am assuming it's because you want that Neve or API character/coloration?

just wondering....



~j.d.

The one that was pretty good (for the money) was the UA 2108, which they discontinued. Brent Averill is actually racking old 1108 modules...

But, the 610 preamp is weak, and so are those combo boxes like the 6176 (IMO).

[RoundBadge]

In my world:

Clean=boring

Colored[Neve,etc]= Vibe/bigger than life

IMO Hip Hop NEEDS more vibe!
Bring it!

Don't f*ck around.
Buy an Aurora GTQ mk2 from Tony.

Thick Punchy Neve vibe with a slightly more extended hi end..
perfect for Hip Hop/R&B.
the low punch of a Neve 1073 and the nice hi's of a 1081

..and two killer di's/eqs[Can you say Fatter keys/ MPC?] to boot
2 channels and way cheaper than a Neve

[s.d.finley]

A buddy of mine has a UA 610 that I borrow on occasion. IMHO the 610 seems slow on transients, like it smears them. Also has low headroom. Although, sometimes its just what I need, but rarely for vocals.

Vocals is 90% A-Designs P1, and if the vocalist is too silibant, I will use the A-Designs EM-silver. The EMS smooths out the top end end, but still leaves it alil open, not spitty.

I"m with Roundbadge on the coloring issue. If I was recording a choir, I'd go clean. But for any pop, rock, rap, I'd want some kind of vibe going on, to give the artist a little extra something!!

[Max headroom]

Originally Posted by Emi

i have a 737, UA610, a Red pre in da studio and first of all you can compare the 737 with the Red cuz you´re talking about 2 different types of pre´s...and for smooth low voice...I defenettly prefer the Red...for me it´s full of details and it sounds "expensive" (to say it that way)...the 737 is poor...it doesn´t give me anything specially with voices (male or female or rapper voices)...for me it´s not creamy...it´s just dirty sounding....but in a bad way to me....

now in my opinion u can compare the 737 with UA610...and I prefer the UA610....it´s creamy...and it sounds open...and it does it work very good...I like it..

and by the way....the Red has a huge headroom....

just my opinion!

I know .... You didn't understand me .......


I have used all three of them .... the UA 610 have small headroom , the other two have no problem with it .

ua 610 is simply worse than 737 in almost everything ..... I had them side by side loads of time , and there is nothing creamy about them ........ 737 is easy winner every time ( IMHO )

REd picks more transients , ( ADL 600 too ) and are more open than 737 , and they sound with more atack (punch) then 737 , but I was recording some ballads ( male vocal ) and 737 sounded more " expencive " to me ..... I could choose ay of them .......

I simply can't figure out am I having a wrong set of ears ???


Thanks for trying to clear it out for me all !!!!

I will definetly try to figure out the " badness " of 737 :)


Cheers


Max

[Emi]

Originally Posted by Max headroom

I know .... You didn't understand me .......


I have used all three of them .... the UA 610 have small headroom , the other two have no problem with it .

ua 610 is simply worse than 737 in almost everything ..... I had them side by side loads of time , and there is nothing creamy about them ........ 737 is easy winner every time ( IMHO )

REd picks more transients , ( ADL 600 too ) and are more open than 737 , and they sound with more atack (punch) then 737 , but I was recording some ballads ( male vocal ) and 737 sounded more " expencive " to me ..... I could choose ay of them .......

I simply can't figure out am I having a wrong set of ears ???


Thanks for trying to clear it out for me all !!!!

I will definetly try to figure out the " badness " of 737 :)


Cheers


Max

well I have to say that I expressed myself badly cuz ...well..I don´t think there are bad or good pre-amps.....though different colours....but every pre-amp depends too on the mic u plug it in....so in my case I didn´t liked the 737...I think it was with a Neumann M149 aniversary edition...and I liked it more with the Red pre...and it was a ballad too...
I´m not trying to convince u that the 737 is bad....it´s just different.