I've read the Compressor Workshop thread, and now have a question (Hip Hop related)

G-3 · 18th December 2003, 09:08 PM

I've been messing around for a while making Hip Hop/RnB tracks for locals with "pawn shop gear" and "nobody wants 'em consignment items" from the local used gear shops. Now, as the income has started to increase... so too has the expectation for a "better studio sound". Not to mention a need to replace alot of this crap that seems to be falling apart. Alot of you were a big help recently when I switched over from my $200 ART preamp to an Avalon Vt737sp (wow... what a difference!). Thanks again for that help.

Anyway, enough rambling. The question is this... based on all I've read from the shootouts/workshops, and "which compressor is best across the stereo buss" threads, what stereo comp (or single channel pair) would provide the most value as a "First Real Compressor"? "Real" in terms of quality sound, build, and function. "First" in that it must be closer to a jack of all trades (tracking keys/synsths/samplers, and mixing) until I can start to address specific needs down the road. I know my ears should be the judge, and they will to the extent that I'd want the comp to sound "better" to me than the others do. But I'd like to have an idea of what to try and listen to rather than listening to something I either can't afford, use within the context of this genre, or put to work as a swiss army knife of sorts. Btw, my budget is in the $2000-$3000 range.

Thanks, and sorry for the long post.

mtsupiano · 18th December 2003, 10:00 PM

You could get a pair of distressors in that price point. You would also have enough money left to get a pair of RNCs. I think that would cover most bases.

Andrew

G-3 · 18th December 2003, 10:55 PM

@ mtsupiano - thanks for the input.

I've made a contact at one of the local shops who will come to my room (humble as it is), and let me audition a couple comps within my setup. I'm hoping I can get a narrow field of 2-3 I can spend some time listening to. Based on what I've read on this board so far, the distressors will probably be one of them. Thanks again for the input!

spherop · 18th December 2003, 11:59 PM

Which "Compressor Workshop Thread"? - I'd like to check it out ...
thx

staticinsect · 19th December 2003, 12:32 AM

I've heard second-hand from reliable sources that an Alan Smart C2 would be a good one for you to audition...

G-3 · 19th December 2003, 12:48 AM

@ spherop - I called it a "Compressor Workshop Thread"... sorry 'bout that if you tried searching for it. It was actually a Production Workshop put on by Michael Wagener. Here is a link to the thread. Production Workshop. It was around the 4th or 5th page of the thread where some pretty helpful "findings" were posted on each box.

@ staticinsect - Alan Smart C2? Cool... thanks for the input.

e-cue · 19th December 2003, 04:02 AM

I think the SSL Quad (or Alan Smart) would be the way to go. The Distressors are a bit more versitile (more ratios, distrortion modes, etc) and have a wider range, but the SSL will sound 'better' for most applications you'll use it in Hip Hop (unless you are going for a "underground" or "wu tang clan" type of sound). If it turns out that you don't like it, resale will be a cinch.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to look into a 2nd 737. You could link them, and in a pitch, I've used them on my 2 Bus with good results (just make sure they are both calibrated properly). That would also give you a great (stereo) DI for your synth gear. They are getting cheaper and cheaper on the used market (no- not on ebay).

kevinc · 19th December 2003, 05:58 AM

Get two Cranesong Trakkers.
They are some of the most versatile compressors out there.
Kind of pricy though.

e-cue · 19th December 2003, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinc
Get two Cranesong Trakkers.
They are some of the most versatile compressors out there.
Kind of pricy though.

At about $3,500 new, thats pretty close to his price range. Although, I don't know anyone in hip hop that consistantly uses the Trakkers.

Blues · 19th December 2003, 07:36 AM

Sup ecue...i holla'd at ya last week in the chatroom....the hiphop artist/producer out of seattle...

I'd like to network with you...you seem knowledgable about things...who knows what could spring up?

A sample of my work:http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/bluesmusic.htm

A song called "Play No Games"...all produced & perfromed by me...live instrumentation...dont worry..i'm good..real good.

Get at me.....blueslinger@hotmail.com

Peace
Blues

robmix · 19th December 2003, 07:39 AM

Definitely check out the Allan Smart, most of the hiphop you're hearing on the radio was probably pummmeled with the SSL stereo bus compressor which the Smart stuff was fashioned after. I also use it for tracking and it's quickly become one of my favorites.

Rob

thethrillfactor · 19th December 2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by e-cue
At about $3,500 new, thats pretty close to his price range. Although, I don't know anyone in hip hop that consistantly uses the Trakkers.

Hey E-cue,

Actually a lot of guys here in town that mix hiphop on 9000J's have an STC-8 strapped to the mix buss.

Its becoming a common thing(one of the most rented pieces).

I think a Alan Smart C2 is cool and maybe a pair of Distressors, or better yet; don't worry as much about the mixbuss and focus more on the individual tracks.

I think a Distressor+ a Tubetech CL1B(for tracking RnB vocals and bass) +DBX160X+Urei 7110 will be more functional and get you further along.

e-cue · 19th December 2003, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey E-cue,

Actually a lot of guys here in town that mix hiphop on 9000J's have an STC-8 strapped to the mix buss.

Its becoming a common thing(one of the most rented pieces).

Yeah, I've been hearing about that (STC), but I still haven't seen a single 'rap' engineer use a trakker. But hey, it could be G-3's sound right?

I got a feeling the east coast (u.s. stateside) studios will be hip to Cranesong gear before the Westcoast for some reason.

G-3 · 19th December 2003, 07:35 PM

Wow, thanks for all of the informed opinions... it is really appreciated.

Quote:

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey E-cue,
I think a Alan Smart C2 is cool and maybe a pair of Distressors, or better yet; don't worry as much about the mixbuss and focus more on the individual tracks.
I think a Distressor+ a Tubetech CL1B(for tracking RnB vocals and bass) +DBX160X+Urei 7110 will be more functional and get you further along.

That's the problem I'm running into in the decision making process... address each individual track as best I can with current gear and focus on the mix with something from the "higher end", or do something more in line with what you've mentioned in your post.

Incidentally, I was just "paid" for some older work with a T.C. Electronic Finalizer (the old pre 24bit one), and a DBX DDP. Based on the "can't fix it once you've done it" stories I've read from ME's who've dealt with "Finalized" mixes... I think I'll try and find a more non-destructive use for it. But given these additions, would that change your recommendation?

Quote:

Originally posted by e-cue
Yeah, I've been hearing about that (STC), but I still haven't seen a single 'rap' engineer use a trakker. But hey, it could be G-3's sound right?

Who knows… maybe it could be!?!? I think my sound is still evolving (musically and sonically) as I attempt to move away from the traditional 90’s “Bay Area” independent hip hop sound that everyone around my area seems to be stuck on (at least in the circles I seem to be running in). This evolution in terms of “sound” musically has (I think) helped me move up a level with regard to credibility and local interest from artists looking for beats, but I’m now finding it to be more of a challenge to deliver the goods sonically. What sounds (sonically) good around the way and for my block isn’t going to cut it if I’m trying to really “come up”. I guess I’ll know when I get there.

The key for me with this specific purchase is that it will have to be a jack-of-all trades until I can make the next purchase…, which may end up being whatever I didn’t get first.

My budget right now is really limited to the sub 3K region. So far everyone seems to be in agreement that a couple things (in this budget) I may want to look at are:

1. Empirical Labs Distressors
2. Alan Smart C2

Thanks again for all of the input guys! It's nice to participate in a forum with professionals who aren't affraid to share a little knowledge with those of us "still learning" the craft.

G-3

doug_hti · 19th December 2003, 08:04 PM

I would have to say a Manley Vari-Mu, it is so versatile with tracking vocals, usually the most important aspect (IMO).

I have found that my C2 can be a bit too aggressive on individual tracks like vocals for anything over 2dbs of compression...but if your just dusting and tickling the comp, it's hard to beat, but for affecting larger dynamics ranges...I've found it a bit too apparent. again, IMO.

I would definately reccommend a C2 if you could get something like a single channel for lead vox of a cl1b or a summit dcl, etc. Or even using the comp during mixdown on your 737, which I don't think is as bad as everyone gives it. You may have to babysit it a bit, but I've had good results.

shikawkee · 19th December 2003, 11:45 PM

It's funny, every interview I read with a Hip-Hop star about gear mentions an 1176 at some point. Just my observation....

**Jules** · 1st August 2005, 07:11 PM

Welcome to August 2005!

tweaknads · 2nd August 2005, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-cue

I think the SSL Quad (or Alan Smart) would be the way to go. The Distressors are a bit more versitile (more ratios, distrortion modes, etc) and have a wider range, but the SSL will sound 'better' for most applications you'll use it in Hip Hop (unless you are going for a "underground" or "wu tang clan" type of sound). If it turns out that you don't like it, resale will be a cinch.

What do you recomend for the "underground" or "wu tang clan" type of sound" ?

XHipHop · 2nd August 2005, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweaknads

What do you recomend for the "underground" or "wu tang clan" type of sound" ?

A distressor is certainly useful for underground sounds!!! C'mon now...

But the following would also be VERY useful:

DBX 160, 160x, or xt

Sansamp distortion (rza used to be in love with the psa-1...i haven't heard enough of his new stuff to hear if they still use it).

Drawmer 1960 - I'm pretty sure I was hearing this on "protect ya neck"

But I think it really comes down to the samples...what compressor you use might be the 2nd most important thing when doing drums.

thethrillfactor · 2nd August 2005, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweaknads

What do you recomend for the "underground" or "wu tang clan" type of sound" ?

An Ensoniq ASR10, a MPC 2000 and a Akai S950.

And of course some 1200 turntables and a nice crate of records.

The tools of the Clan.

Switchcraft · 24th October 2005, 03:18 AM

So, what did you end up getting and how is it working... I am thinking about a C2 for tracking... whats the story?

**TonyBelmont** · 24th October 2005, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

An Ensoniq ASR10, a MPC 2000 and a Akai S950.

And of course some 1200 turntables and a nice crate of records.

The tools of the Clan.

And a U87 and an SSL 9000....

Switchcraft · 25th October 2005, 03:30 PM

Did you end up with anything?
C2 is what I am thinking about.

thethrillfactor · 25th October 2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

and an SSL 9000....

Hmmmm...

I've never been too crazy about mixing hiphop on an SSL 9000.

I prefer and older E or G/G+.

G-3 · 26th October 2005, 02:54 AM

I actually ended up getting a good deal on a used avalon 747. Been learning that one for a good while now, and dig it (especially the eq). C2 is on the horizon, but not before some other single channel pieces to address individual things. My next purchase will most likely be a CL1B.

nukmusic · 28th October 2005, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Hmmmm...

I've never been too crazy about mixing hiphop on an SSL 9000.

I prefer and older E or G/G+.

the J or the new K? Why not Thrill?

I've heard some say the 4000 have "the crunch" the mixes i heard from Patchwerk sound pretty good.

............and has anu one peeped that Manley E-lop?

**TonyBelmont** · 28th October 2005, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Hmmmm...

I've never been too crazy about mixing hiphop on an SSL 9000.

I prefer and older E or G/G+.

There's a 9000J in the studio I put together for them a few years ago... But, I agree I would rather have a G+!

thethrillfactor · 28th October 2005, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukmusic

the J or the new K? Why not Thrill?

I've heard some say the 4000 have "the crunch" the mixes i heard from Patchwerk sound pretty good.

............and has anu one peeped that Manley E-lop?

The 9000 always sounded to me like mixing in Ptools.

When you overload the channels they don't clip like the older E's.

The clipping sound on a 9000 is similar what you hear when you hit PT too hard.

Sometimes the little "clip" is just what a rimshot needs to pop out of the track or it may give the vocal a certain edge.

Its a fine line though because if you push them too hard the mix sounds like it can rip your head off in a negative way.

The 9000's are much wider sounding though when you work them right.

The older SSL's you gotta work the mixbuss right to maintain some width.

thethrillfactor · 28th October 2005, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

There's a 9000J in the studio I put together for them a few years ago... But, I agree I would rather have a G+!

I worked with them years ago.

This was before they setup the studio with Carlos and the 9098.

**TonyBelmont** · 28th October 2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I worked with them years ago.

This was before they setup the studio with Carlos and the 9098.

Damm, you're an old man! Which studio were they getting kicked out of then?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Best Stereo Bus Compressor for Hip-Hop?	edIT	High end	22	30th October 2006 01:26 PM
in light of the crazy hip-hop thread (an ode to Kataztraphy)	edIT	High end	6	1st May 2005 11:57 AM
How can i get this sound for my Hip-hop drums? Examples Provided, continued thread	kataztraphy	Work in progress / advice requested / Show & Tell / Artist showcase	6	29th April 2005 07:39 PM

18th December 2003, 09:08 PM	#1
G-3 Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Modesto, Ca. Posts: 107	I've read the Compressor Workshop thread, and now have a question (Hip Hop related) I've been messing around for a while making Hip Hop/RnB tracks for locals with "pawn shop gear" and "nobody wants 'em consignment items" from the local used gear shops. Now, as the income has started to increase... so too has the expectation for a "better studio sound". Not to mention a need to replace alot of this crap that seems to be falling apart. Alot of you were a big help recently when I switched over from my $200 ART preamp to an Avalon Vt737sp (wow... what a difference!). Thanks again for that help. Anyway, enough rambling. The question is this... based on all I've read from the shootouts/workshops, and "which compressor is best across the stereo buss" threads, what stereo comp (or single channel pair) would provide the most value as a "First Real Compressor"? "Real" in terms of quality sound, build, and function. "First" in that it must be closer to a jack of all trades (tracking keys/synsths/samplers, and mixing) until I can start to address specific needs down the road. I know my ears should be the judge, and they will to the extent that I'd want the comp to sound "better" to me than the others do. But I'd like to have an idea of what to try and listen to rather than listening to something I either can't afford, use within the context of this genre, or put to work as a swiss army knife of sorts. Btw, my budget is in the $2000-$3000 range. Thanks, and sorry for the long post.

18th December 2003, 10:00 PM	#2
mtsupiano Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 124	You could get a pair of distressors in that price point. You would also have enough money left to get a pair of RNCs. I think that would cover most bases. Andrew __________________ Resident IT Nerd

19th December 2003, 07:36 AM	#10
Blues Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 57	Sup... Sup ecue...i holla'd at ya last week in the chatroom....the hiphop artist/producer out of seattle... I'd like to network with you...you seem knowledgable about things...who knows what could spring up? A sample of my work:http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/bluesmusic.htm A song called "Play No Games"...all produced & perfromed by me...live instrumentation...dont worry..i'm good..real good. Get at me.....blueslinger@hotmail.com Peace Blues

19th December 2003, 08:04 PM	#15
doug_hti Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Calabasas, California Posts: 1,138	I would have to say a Manley Vari-Mu, it is so versatile with tracking vocals, usually the most important aspect (IMO). I have found that my C2 can be a bit too aggressive on individual tracks like vocals for anything over 2dbs of compression...but if your just dusting and tickling the comp, it's hard to beat, but for affecting larger dynamics ranges...I've found it a bit too apparent. again, IMO. I would definately reccommend a C2 if you could get something like a single channel for lead vox of a cl1b or a summit dcl, etc. Or even using the comp during mixdown on your 737, which I don't think is as bad as everyone gives it. You may have to babysit it a bit, but I've had good results. __________________ doug

18th December 2003, 10:55 PM	#3
G-3 Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Modesto, Ca. Posts: 107	@ mtsupiano - thanks for the input. I've made a contact at one of the local shops who will come to my room (humble as it is), and let me audition a couple comps within my setup. I'm hoping I can get a narrow field of 2-3 I can spend some time listening to. Based on what I've read on this board so far, the distressors will probably be one of them. Thanks again for the input!

18th December 2003, 11:59 PM	#4
spherop Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 251	Which "Compressor Workshop Thread"? - I'd like to check it out ... thx

19th December 2003, 12:32 AM	#5
staticinsect Gear interested Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: eastern canada Posts: 20	I've heard second-hand from reliable sources that an Alan Smart C2 would be a good one for you to audition...

19th December 2003, 12:48 AM	#6
G-3 Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Modesto, Ca. Posts: 107	@ spherop - I called it a "Compressor Workshop Thread"... sorry 'bout that if you tried searching for it. It was actually a Production Workshop put on by Michael Wagener. Here is a link to the thread. Production Workshop. It was around the 4th or 5th page of the thread where some pretty helpful "findings" were posted on each box. @ staticinsect - Alan Smart C2? Cool... thanks for the input.

19th December 2003, 04:02 AM	#7
e-cue Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 3,883	I think the SSL Quad (or Alan Smart) would be the way to go. The Distressors are a bit more versitile (more ratios, distrortion modes, etc) and have a wider range, but the SSL will sound 'better' for most applications you'll use it in Hip Hop (unless you are going for a "underground" or "wu tang clan" type of sound). If it turns out that you don't like it, resale will be a cinch. Also, it wouldn't hurt to look into a 2nd 737. You could link them, and in a pitch, I've used them on my 2 Bus with good results (just make sure they are both calibrated properly). That would also give you a great (stereo) DI for your synth gear. They are getting cheaper and cheaper on the used market (no- not on ebay).

19th December 2003, 05:58 AM	#8
kevinc Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Beantown Posts: 2,464	Get two Cranesong Trakkers. They are some of the most versatile compressors out there. Kind of pricy though.

19th December 2003, 07:39 AM	#11
robmix Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,984	Definitely check out the Allan Smart, most of the hiphop you're hearing on the radio was probably pummmeled with the SSL stereo bus compressor which the Smart stuff was fashioned after. I also use it for tracking and it's quickly become one of my favorites. Rob

19th December 2003, 11:45 PM	#16
shikawkee Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,015	It's funny, every interview I read with a Hip-Hop star about gear mentions an 1176 at some point. Just my observation.... __________________ "Lend me some sugar, I am your neighbor"- Andre 3000

1st August 2005, 07:11 PM	#17
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 11,795	Welcome to August 2005! __________________ Jules "PS. I don't have an opinion on the topic." - jdtrbn

24th October 2005, 03:18 AM	#21
Switchcraft Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Philly Posts: 969	So, what did you end up getting and how is it working... I am thinking about a C2 for tracking... whats the story? __________________ my hands work mad good http:/www.RadioRecession.com www.RadioRecession.blogspot.com

25th October 2005, 03:30 PM	#23
Switchcraft Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Philly Posts: 969	Did you end up with anything? C2 is what I am thinking about. __________________ my hands work mad good http:/www.RadioRecession.com www.RadioRecession.blogspot.com

26th October 2005, 02:54 AM	#25
G-3 Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Modesto, Ca. Posts: 107	I actually ended up getting a good deal on a used avalon 747. Been learning that one for a good while now, and dig it (especially the eq). C2 is on the horizon, but not before some other single channel pieces to address individual things. My next purchase will most likely be a CL1B.