vocal routing mix technique...

[flipmodea]

Hey!
Just wondering if anyone would know any cool tips on how to group, buss route vocals for hip hop.
I'm looking to reach that commercial sounding phat ass crisp 50 cents tube $50.0000 sound on the vocals,
I have tried few techniques where I would use several groups and have delay, verb on them and send my main vocals to those groups to thicken the sound.

It's sounds ok but I have a feeling that there is something missing in the mix.
If anyone has got cool tips,
feel free to post.


Thanks,

Jim, B

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by flipmodea

I'm looking to reach that commercial sounding phat ass crisp 50 cents tube $50.0000 sound on the vocals,

of course you are

Originally Posted by flipmodea

It's sounds ok

then whats the problem?

[tomdarude]

rickrock......hahaha dude, what´s up with ya tonight?? so pissed?

stop surfin gearlsutz now,
sit back in a comfy chair and put on the "The Roots - Illadelph Halflife"-vinyl...now close your eyes, relax and enjoy true hiphop


I´m just spinning the record- man, I love it!!!

[tomdarude]

parallel comp & fx will get you there, but only with a clear vision of what you want to achieve!! don´t put on fx to "try out", but to "reach a goal" a sound you already have in your head....those are all just tools!

and btw. still most important ist your front end!!!

Vox->Room->Mic->Pre->Comp

you should be there at least 75% after tracking and throwing your faders up!

it just takes a little PRACTICE

[LCD]

tom - i know this is covered all over, but can u break down parallel compression and how it relates to the sound he's trying to achieve?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

and btw. still most important ist your front end!!!

Vox->Room->Mic->Pre->Comp

you should be there at least 75% after tracking and throwing your faders up!

it just takes a little PRACTICE

Exactly, it's all about tracking it properly. My vocals sound great before I do anything to them in the mixing stage.

[flipmodea]

I have the vision and i know exactly what kind of vocal sound i would like to achieve,
It's just getting there,
I've done some vocals with comp, eq, de-esser and some // compression
but I seem to have a problem in de-essing the highs and sibilance out of the vocals, I would like to de-ess the vox but still have the clarity of the high.

I really hear it on records, it must be tape, it kinds of acts as a de-esser, it cuts out the highs but the clarity is still there.
And also it's a bit tricky to make the vox sit in the mix nicely.

[tomdarude]

in a big-studio you´d rather swap mics than de-ess

believe me:
it´s
*1) vocal technique
*2) room sound
*3) mic (not always the most expensive, but the best one for that particular voice)
*4) preamp (actually can help pretty much with voice artefacts, such as s-problems etc.)


so the difference between amateur & pro-recordings are more like:
the room is acoustically built to sound good PLUS has acoustic-baffels to be further tailored!
they have a mic- selection, not only 2 or 3 good to mediocre mics...and they often use their selection (if you have tried YOUR U47, YOUR U67, YOUR BraunerVM1, YOUR ELAM 251 and your RE20 or AEA84 on the voice and you like the cheaper one´s the most, you´ll def. use it, because your not that proud of your big, first $ 1,5k-condenser anymore, so you just HAVE to use it sorry but I´ve seen this happen sooo often!)

you have an experienced engineer doing your vocal-edits!!!
that makes a HUGE difference: de-essing can best be done manually!
editing your doubles (focus on every syllable, do you want to use it or not??? every f**king syllable!! it takes hours, it´s a boring PITA....but it makes all the difference!)

in MY humble opinion what helps the most is -> INVEST MORE TIME/WORK/THOUGHTS
you´re asking for advice here, so that´s the first step into more thoughts & work -> VERY GOOD !

than comes mix-time.....

[flipmodea]

cool.

I'm using TLM 103 for the vocals. I've heard good and bad things about that mic.
ironically the cheapo SM 58 BetaA sounded quite good when I used it back in 2000 for a hip hop project, Those were the days where I was using Fruity loops, the comp on that sequencer is actually very good, dunno how they did that.

Don't think I'll be doing manual de-essing, although it would be interesting to see the difference between the plugin and manual way.

I guess the golden rule is that there is no rule and u just have to F$£%$£ around till it sounds pretty close to what you wanted.

Any info on professional routing configurations for hip hop vocals or even rock during mixing stage would be sick.....

[Stitch333]

Once youve got good source material, mixing is a snap...but heres a formula Ive used to mix vox with success (esp sitting the vocals inside the final mix): Group all your vocal tracks and submix them to a stereo bus. use comp on inserts on the main verse vocal and the two main hook vocals (remember to pan s**t around) and then again on the vocal bus. Add FX on the bus aux to taste (not the individual tracks). Verb and tempo-matched delay are a staple.

[tomdarude]

sell the crappy piece o sh*t ...errr...I mean tlm103 and check some other vocal-mics!!
you liked the SM58 on your voice?? nothing wrong with that!!
be sure to try a SM7 or an EV RE20, if you can somehow afford it, check the Peluso Mic´s (2247LE, P12) or other contenders in that range (Pearlmann, AT4060, MicrotechGefell)
most of them are much better than any TLM-series mic.

I know there are different opinions, but I never liked a TLM I tried and other´s seem to agree

[flipmodea]

Yes I would be good to check out some other mics,
The only reason I got the TLM 103 is simple, it's a Neumann and it was cheap and they said that the capsule was based on the U-89, not quite I guess......
I would like to find a mic that is the most suitable for the style and genre,
The best idea would be to track with shit loads of mics and take the best one.
I'm gonna check out the mics you pointed out.

[upscaps]

we use u87 or sony 800g into ba neve 1073 w/ distressor. very rarely have to eq or de-ess. touch of reverb and u good

recorded bone thugs at quad a few months ago w/ u87 into manley voxbox and that sounded great too.

[cap217]

Originally Posted by upscaps

we use u87 or sony 800g into ba neve 1073 w/ distressor. very rarely have to eq or de-ess. touch of reverb and u good

recorded bone thugs at quad a few months ago w/ u87 into manley voxbox and that sounded great too.

I hope you got your money up-front!!!!

[flipmodea]

Yes the better you get your initial source sound to tape, the less you got to mess around in post production.

Would be good to get a phat mic-pre.
I just got a Phatso Empirical Labs, tested it out a few times. It's sounds pretty good, smooths out all the digital peaks and harsh sounds.

Haven't tried it on vocals yet,

anyone ever tried Phatso on vocals?

upscaps , what is the name of the track you used the equipment you listed on Bone Thugs?

[upscaps]

Originally Posted by cap217

I hope you got your money up-front!!!!

the only way i work

[flipmodea]

hey

what about signal chain grouping bussing comp EQ reverb delay new york compression techniques for rock/emo/alternative.... vocals
same shit as hip hop or totally different?

like vocals on Finch, Blindside, Rise Against, taking back Thursday just your modern sounding highly produced record.