Squashed kicks...

[Joemamma]

I've been running a couple of my favorite hiphop tracks (including some dre 2001 tracks) into protools to look at the waveforms of the tracks.

I've noticed that the kicks often are completely squashed and look as if there has been used a whole lot of limiting.

How many people limit there kicks hard?

Or could these squashed kisk be a result of heavy mastering?

[GeorgeSkoufalos]

It's hard to tell since your reading the master.

I would say the latter.

Regarding limiting the kick.
I personally wouldn't throw on a limiter unless it is absolutely needed.
Mostly, i will use it on the master track, after a post compression EQ.

But if the track is getting proffesionally mastered, I bypass that as well.

[beat you down]

i don't limit them hard when mixing, i like them to be snappy and punchy, my mixes look peak-ish not block-ish.

i don't know about the songs you had a look at, but my guess is they look squashed cause of the mastering.

i wonder how stuff can look squashed but still sound punchy like a lot of the songs on the chronic 2001, when i try to diy master my mixes in order to get them loud like commercial cd's, they do get loud (wave looks like a block) but loose all punch since the transients are all like gone, kicks totally absorbed.

maybe some more seasoned engineers can shed some light on this?

[overdose]

They have better ears, room, gear, and better monitors than you. Not a jab at you it's just the truth. That is why they do what they do and you do what you do.

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by overdose

They have better ears, room, gear, and better monitors than you. Not a jab at you it's just the truth. That is why they do what they do and you do what you do.

how do you know what type of ears, room and gear i have????
but....
i'm not comparing my bedroom masters to pro masters, so that i am aware of, but that's not the question.

the question is how can you squash drum transients to flat lines (cause that's what happens on commercial cd's nowadays) and still keep em punchy. it just seems paradoxal to me.

[Chaotic]

i dont think anyones taking a personal shot at you, I think you're misunderstanding their answers.

Basically if you load up a dre song into your computer and look at the wave form, your not seeing the kick alone, you're seeing the waveform of the entire stereo mix.

The punchiness you're looking for comes in the tracking and mixing stages, with a combo of eq, compression and from the orignal sample. The flatness youre seeing on the waveform is most likely from whatever compression/limiting was done to the stereo mix. (after the punchiness of the kick was created)

[beat you down]

thanks for the reply, maybe i wasn't clear....

Originally Posted by Chaotic

i dont think anyones taking a personal shot at you, I think you're misunderstanding their answers.

i didn't take anything as a diss or whatever, maybe you didn't see the ?, also i perfectly understand the answers i got so far.

Basically if you load up a dre song into your computer and look at the wave form, your not seeing the kick alone, you're seeing the waveform of the entire stereo mix.

seriously??? i thought i was looking at the soloed kick track

The punchiness you're looking for comes in the tracking and mixing stages, with a combo of eq, compression and from the orignal sample.

the punch comes from the kick and bass transients, they need to stick out in the wave of the mix to make your track punchy.

....The flatness youre seeing on the waveform is most likely from whatever compression/limiting was done to the stereo mix. (after the punchiness of the kick was created)

the flatness (total block) i talk about is most likely caused by the m.e. squashing shit to death cause it needs to be loud for some reason, the paradox i talk about is..... punch comes from transients (kick and bass sticking out in the wave of the mix)
after the punchiness was created it gets squashed) so how can a squashed to death mix (transients gone or all flat, no kick or bass sticking out) still punch.???

[STARSKI]

i would say your talking about argueably one the best if not the best mixed and mastered albums ever. the mastering some how squashed the album super hard but still gave you a sense of depth, dynamics, and punchiness. it also amazes me how the songs were so sparse and yet when you look at the meter levels they barely drop at all. i will say that this is not the most bass heavy albums (not saying its too light) so this gave them some extra dynamic room to make it super punchy and loud while being punchy. i believe its a combo of starting with great sounds, using good hardware drum machines and instruments, tracking thru all top quality gear, letting everything have its own space frequency wise, lots of space and spartan quality of the songs, great mixes, and grade A mastering. i know this probably didn't answer the question the way you wanted, but i'm sure this album is one of those albums that many people on here strive to get a quality like.

[defjamm]

clipping...sounds totally different than limiting.

[the russian]

::::::


I know that "Dre" hits the 2"...

And I believe he's still on the G Series (please correct me if I'm wrong).


There's no magic formula to compression. It's a tool, not a protocol. Although I do end up jumping to the Distressor 60% of the time. CONUNDRUM!!!

[Sirocco]

i stopped using waves L2 because of the way it handles the distortion algorithms i applied to my kicks

[Joemamma]

But I do think this is a really interesting topic. Because there's no doubt that the drums are really limited (they look like block waveforms).

So the question is: did they get to be like this during mixdown or did they get to be like this after mastering???