Is engineering schools worth it?

[payroll]

I have been thinking about going to school to be an audio engineer. I have doubts because alot of studios that accept interns do not pay much and it seems to take a long time to really touch the boards and be an engineer. Also it seems that not to many go to the studio anymore which makes getting a job harder. Is it best I just get some equipment and learn by videos or something. If there a anyone that have been on both sides help me!

[Harley-OIART]

Few Schools are actually good, and offer real world training for the money. But they are out there if you do the research and take a good tour. My honest advice, as a graduate of one of the finest schools I could find...

Buy the book : Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook (Second Edition)

Much of the material you learn at a recording school is within these pages. I really mean it. Read it from page one, take your time, understand it chapter by chapter, and take it all in. Some of it is complicated but if you read it carefully enough it all falls into place. I honestly suggest reading that book, and maybe picking up a couple others (I have loads worthy of suggestions, as do others on this forum... infact here's a link [ http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ighlight=books ] ) and after that, decide if you still want to go to school. If you do, well then you are already ahead of the learning curve at school, and you can spend more time concentrating on more advanced techniques because you already have a true understanding of the ever so important fundamentals.

Its a good book, really almost all engineers should have a copy. Most schools hand it out as part of the tuition.

Best Regards,
Scott Harloff

[Sirocco]

im still smacking myself for even considering going to full sail thumbsup

[wwittman]

No, but English grammer schools "is".

[mixerguy]

a guy i know went to Homerecordingbootcamp and said it was really good - short, intense, fun and a great start

Ronan runs the school.... he's on here sometimes maybe he wants to chime in here?

[The Marrvel]

Originally Posted by wwittman

No, but English grammer schools "is".

LMAO!!!!

[TOR]

take the $10,000 or whatever it is for these schools, spend that on gear, and learn by trial & error recording your friends' garage bands. when youre stuck... ask questions on gearslutz and read insane amounts of information freely available on the interweb...

nothing teaches like experience

[Brian!]

Originally Posted by wwittman

No, but English grammer schools "is".

Too bad they don't teach you how to properly spell "grammar" at a "grammer" school.

Originally Posted by Brian!

Too bad they don't teach you how to properly spell "grammar" at a "grammer" school.

You get that at "spelling" school.

[payroll]

Originally Posted by Sirocco

im still smacking myself for even considering going to full sail thumbsup

So what is it that made you say that about going was it worthless. I also see you got the cubase symbol is it one of the best programs?

[jonutarr]

No, but English grammer schools "is".

Originally Posted by Brian!

Too bad they don't teach you how to properly spell "grammar" at a "grammer" school.

aaaaahhhhahahaha

[bigwillz24]

I'm working on an AA degree from one of the local community colleges. It's a lot cheaper than a Full Sail or SAE, I still learn on a SSL, and meet many people that are already in the business locally. I think if you take it seriously you'll get something out of it. If not, well...

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by payroll

So what is it that made you say that about going was it worthless. I also see you got the cubase symbol is it one of the best programs?

its just way too much money to spend to just learn the basics and a little hands-on. you can learn more through personal trial and error for free thumbsup thumbsup

[DefJeff]

Know this, why I do believe the prices are out of hand at the moment, most respectable facility's won't even look at a resume unless you have attended one of these schools. And, like any school, you get what you put in. If all you want is the basic's, thats all you'll get, if you want more, more is available! Go get an education!

[Harley-OIART]

Originally Posted by Sirocco

its just way too much money to spend to just learn the basics and a little hands-on.

Thats Why this Post is Valid IMNSHO...

Learn the basics on your own through reading material, then you already have the basics if you should later decide to go to a school. Some of these schools are really good, but if you know more going in, you can spend more time on advanced applications.

Originally Posted by Harley-OIART

Few Schools are actually good, and offer real world training for the money. But they are out there if you do the research and take a good tour. My honest advice, as a graduate of one of the finest schools I could find...

Buy the book : Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook (Second Edition)

Much of the material you learn at a recording school is within these pages. I really mean it. Read it from page one, take your time, understand it chapter by chapter, and take it all in. Some of it is complicated but if you read it carefully enough it all falls into place. I honestly suggest reading that book, and maybe picking up a couple others (I have loads worthy of suggestions, as do others on this forum... infact here's a link [ http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ighlight=books ] ) and after that, decide if you still want to go to school. If you do, well then you are already ahead of the learning curve at school, and you can spend more time concentrating on more advanced techniques because you already have a true understanding of the ever so important fundamentals.

Its a good book, really almost all engineers should have a copy. Most schools hand it out as part of the tuition.

Best Regards,
Scott Harloff

[Stitch333]

I worked with a number of artists who have RIAA sales awards in Philly...not one of them went to school to learn how to: produce, engineer, master, etc...I personally had to re-train two engineers who came from Full Sail, when I was head engineer at the 1/4th quarter in PHL. One of the Full Sail grads, on his first day, wiped the system drive and lost the audio files for close to 20 PT sessions...
School for music? tutt
dfegad full sail

Go find someone who knows what the f**k theyre doing and intern. Go get the coffee and dutchees and just shut-up and watch. You'll learn what happens when you really make records.

[ODZ]

I think ANY formal education is invaluable. It shows first that you can finish what you start; second, it's just frikin fun! Student loan debt is not debt in my book (and I got some hangin over me). I made some of the best friends of my life while earning my audio production degree.

It's not just about "makin' hot beats"

The better schools have instructors who are really industry professionals and picking thier brains is always priceless. Larger class sizes don't always allow for as much hands on as some may like, but you get out what you put in. Of course, most of the schools are filled with jokers who think its something cool for mommy and daddy to pay for while they figure out what they really want to do w/ thier lives, but there are a few "diamonds in the rough" and you can figure out real quick who they are.

I worked for free for 3 years while going to school doing whatever I could (cable monkey in a few large studiosdfegad , top 40's cover band sound guy , stage hand lugging massive freakin lighting and sound rigstutt ) you pay your dues.

Now I will admit that my degree did not technically earn me my FIRST real paying house engineer gig, but it gave me the wherewithall to know my way around the studio upon first glance and when I didn't have to ask too many stupid questions when asked to connect or setup something, the engineer asked me back after my first day-that turned into a paying gig some weeks later when one of thier engineers flaked and left 'em in the lurch. Right place at the right time, but I'd have never been there if I hadn't had the leg-up of being educated.

I'm continuing my education now pretty much b/c it is a personal goal of mine. I hold an Associate's degree in Audio Production and am pursuing my Bach. in audio just 'cause I can (plus I'll be the first in my family with a Bach.-my personal motivation)

After a few years in a few studios, I've been involved with some major label projects in an assistant or editing capacity (with some credits) and have done much of my "own" work in the indie market. But at this point, and DIRECTLY attributed to my formal education I have a steady, decent paying gig building studios and developing curriculum for one of the up and coming audio programs in the states. While the student body is the toughest to deal with, for reasons already mentioned, the experience of interacting with the instructors and the relations I build with local techs, designers and engineers is great.

So, while formal education is not the only way into this biz, NOR does it guarantee you a job or particular skill set (only you can do that) it is an excellent way to make networking contacts develop some real world skills and make friends with your peers who you will be calling for advice and favors in ten years when you are both doing well in the biz.

The jokers have given the schools a bad rep, making it harder for the serious guys to be taken seriously.

Anyone who knocks it....way to discourage people from trying to do better for themselvesfuuck

[khameln]

I will say one thing though... Everybody here is talking about learning, equipment, knowledge. But you guys are completely missing the boat.

I can't speak for other schools, but one of the main selling points of Berklee besides those things mentioned above is *network*. Honestly the music industry is very, very competitive and having access to the right connections is crucial, because it can mean the difference between getting hired or not, or sometimes between struggling and success (I found that out the hard way). I didn't realize how valuable it was until about 2 years in, but Berklee has a huge amount of connections into just about every part of the music industry.

The warning flag went off in my head when I visted XM radio through the school, and I found out that the lead engineer is from Berklee. Then I started looking everywhere to see where people were placed, and it turns out that there are alums doing all kinds of things. They setup an office and a system specifically to connect students with alumni that are already in the business and get them established, and they also have a program where the school hooks up internships in your desired field.

To me, this stuff is almost priceless. Time in front of studio equipment can be found in a lot of places, and you don't need school to learn audio fundamentals. But this kind of high-level inroads into the industry is pretty hard to match, and there are plenty of "recording schools" that can't offer anything even close to it, even if they also have SSLs and protools and some of the other stuff that's there.

Who cares what you know if you can't find the job you're looking for.

Also the other thing I like about Berklee, is that it's a *music* school. Not a recording and visual arts school. That means you can come and learn a lot of stuff about arranging, composition, film scoring, performance, whatever, in addition to engineering and production. To me that's invaluable because the last thing you want to be in an industry this competitive is *narrow*. Ok you can engineer, but who's going to find work more easily; someone that can mix, or someone that can mix but also arrange for studio strings/small orchestra or horns, read and write out music, play some parts if necessary, etc. It's easy to dream about exploding onto the scene as a Chris Lord-Alge or whatever, but in reality that happens to a small percentage of people, and so the broader your skills are, the greater the chance you have for success in an industry that is pretty unforgiving and subject to constant change. Otherwise, if all you can do is mix, and your services as a mixer are not currently in demand, you are SOL.

Last but not least there are plenty of classes here on the music *business*. It's not just an afterthough, it's an entire major. And to me, that is also one of the most important things they have to offer. Forget everything else for a minute; music is a business, and knowing how it works can determine whether you get screwed, or take advantage of it. If you can mix or produce, ok. But if you can have your own business that *offers* mixing and production, arranging, or whatever else, you can position yourself for greater things than just working under someone else for your entire life and hoping they decide to keep you employed. This isn't saying that you *have* to become an entreprenuer, and obviously you can't completely learn the music business before you jump out and experience it yourself, but I think having extensive prior knowledge of the legal and financial aspects of the music business is a major benefit to *anybody* whether they be a performer/artist, producer, engineer, or anyone else in the industry.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

[tommymakestapes]

Theres a part of me that regrets spending so much money on recording college. I think if someone else is going to pay for it then it's great. But when the bills start rolling in and you still don't have a job as an engineer... it sucks. That being said, I met some great people, and learned a hell of a lot about sound.

The reality is theres probably more people who get jobs pouring coffee after school then actually become engineers.

[tone4407]

My production improved x10 from going to engineering school. They can teach you the fundamentals and help you understand what your actually doing during the mixing process, which also helps during the production process. I definately would say it was money well spent. I'll carry that knowledge with me for years.

[Igotsoul4u]

Audio schools are a complete scam and more importanly a waste of time. You don't even know if you like the music idustry. Wouldn't it suck to find out you hated working in the music biz after you paid $15-25k? Go intern at a studio 3 days a week and make sure its a life you want to live and a process you can handle. Full sail does not tell you about the part where your life is a pile of shit for 3 years (at least) while you pay your dues. Might as well pay them and learn at the same time.

[Igotsoul4u]

I will second the berklee recommentdation. I did not go there, but they do have a nice network of people working around the industry and they also help you become a musician which is pretty huge.

[Harley-OIART]

Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u

Audio schools are a complete scam and more importanly a waste of time.

Not all of them, just many. Look for ones that shoot straight with you.

[big country]

the thing I like about school is meeting new people that are into music.
I have learned more from reading posts on slutz.
what sucks about school is my teacher is 65 and has not been in a real studio
in 20 years, plus hes an electronic musican. and a die hard mac guy.
so hes burnt out and very opinonated. I hate fighting about mac and PC,
and pods sound better than a real amp , but he cant tell the difference in
the sound of a tele and a gibson. but insists pods sound better than a modified
tube amp . the guy has an m box at home and insists thats all one needs.
fahukin nuts
I hate protools because of him
he told me he was going to fail me for putting an a 57 on a snare .
he did.
what a chunt

[ODZ]

its probably noteworthy to state that the concept of an audio engineering school is pretty new. So, your guys that have been in the biz for 20 yrs and have whole grip of gold and platinum records in the wall, of course they didn't go to recording school, there was no such thing, these guys learned by hard knox, for sure.

if you're an idiot, it doesn't matter what school you go to or don't go to. If you're dedicated, don't give up and have a good head on your shoulders, you'll probably do fine either way.

[Harley-OIART]

Originally Posted by big country

Edited by Harley

-my teacher is 65 and has not been in a real studio in 20 years.
-hes an electronic musican.
-he cant tell the difference in the sound of a tele and a gibson.
-insists pods sound better than a modified tube amp
-I hate protools because of him
-he told me he was going to fail me for putting an a 57 on a snare .
-he did.
...what a chunt

WOW! lol... May I even ask what school this was?

[Dan DeTora]

Originally Posted by payroll

I have been thinking about going to school to be an audio engineer. I have doubts because alot of studios that accept interns do not pay much and it seems to take a long time to really touch the boards and be an engineer. Also it seems that not to many go to the studio anymore which makes getting a job harder. Is it best I just get some equipment and learn by videos or something. If there a anyone that have been on both sides help me!

i started interning when i was about 14 and didn't get a paid gig until i was about 20. now, at 26 i still count out change to buy a pack of smokes from time to time (like today, for example ).

this business has almost nothing to do with how good your are and everything to do with who you know. you just gotta be able to eat a lot shit along the way.

good luck.

[jonutarr]

My question is how many big R'n'B / Hip Hop Producers / engineers went to school?

[filterayok]

i got the internship where i currently work from a 1 year course i took at community college---school is good for that, they could point you where to go.... at the end of the year, i asked them to place me somewhere "bigtime, but not so bigtime i'll go unnoticed"---and they gave me exactly that----i was supposed to do a report on my internship, to officially complete the course, but i was so involved in the studio, i never did it!! so i never "graduated"

i''ve never heard of someone who wanted to "try-out" the music industry making it-- when you KNOW thats what your gonna do, or your gonna die trying, then i'd say maybe go to school, simply for the internship placement...

[MarkusColeman]

Originally Posted by khameln

.......They setup an office and a system specifically to connect students with alumni that are already in the business and get them established, and they also have a program where the school hooks up internships in your desired field.......

Freemasons of the music biz.

seriously though, if you don´t know the basics of recording/arranging/music theory and you want to make friends who will probably work in the same biz you do AND you can afford it, do it.

I was a poor kid, so I had to learn it all by myself. it worked, but I guess in the end I invested way more time and money into my education than a Berklee student does.
"do" or "don´t" - tough question.