engineers don't get respect in Hip-Hop?
FyLe ForMatz
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10th December 2013
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engineers don't get respect in Hip-Hop?

you've seen it everywhere, time and time again.

you've seen it on YouTube.

you've seen it on SoundCloud.

you've probably seen it on mixtapes.

seen what?

seen a LACK of ENGINEER / MIXING credits...ESPECIALLY when it comes to non-major projects.

i'd even go as far as saying that MOST (independent) Hip-Hop songs will NOT have engineering credits displayed.

all of these records are getting mixed by SOMEBODY; yet 'NOBODY' is giving these guys ink.

you'll always see the artist's info displayed, and USUALLY you'll see the producer's info displayed...but the ENGINEER? good luck.

anybody have any bright ideas as to why that's usually the case?
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#2
10th December 2013
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Start being more of an asshole
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i got mad respect for hip hop engineers... thats the part of the music im into the most now aside from the song itself... how do it hit in the car with the sound system... the best sound quality albums get the most play... if it sound like shit... i dont care what u saying im playing something that was mixed / mastered right
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10th December 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz View Post
i'd even go as far as saying that MOST (independent) Hip-Hop songs will NOT have engineering credits displayed.

all of these records are getting mixed by SOMEBODY; yet 'NOBODY' is giving these guys ink.
Usually the producer is the mixer for independent hip-hop songs.

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Originally Posted by light
the best sound quality albums get the most play... if it sound like shit... i dont care what u saying im playing something that was mixed / mastered right
This is totally where Im at too. Why do I need a pair of 12's to enjoy your record?

I have to say in general though that I believe hip-hop is relatively easier to mix than a good amount of other genres.
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Originally Posted by 2toxic View Post
I have to say in general though that I believe hip-hop is relatively easier to mix than a good amount of other genres.
Maybe not easier, but different.

Hip Hop and EDM require a lot of balancing of larger than life elements, huge drums that if not treated properly with respect to headroom and perceptual level balance, ends up into a lumpy, unbalanced, fizzy, thin or over-compressed weak loops of shit.

Mixing acoustic genres, theoretically depend on solid musicians, clean recording and engineering a performance so that a mixers job is merely to extract the bands vision, attitude and atmosphere. However I imagine most drum mixers don't receive perfect performances, so they get into edits, replacement & layering, alongside juggling multiple sources of every instrument and the room itself. Then you got vocals, dynamics, timing and tuning correction! And walls of guitars or strings that take up loads of stereo stage and space, sounds that people have an expectation of going in.

That's kinda the thing, people have an idea how acoustics sound, so a mixer most likely has to support that. Hip Hop breaks traditional rules, there is room for interpretation and less of a standard to follow.
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I have a basic requirement that people credit me for the work I've done and that requirement also includes that they put my website after my name in my credits.

I explicitly state that proper crediting is required for me to work with them, and for jobs that have a work agreement or contract appropriate crediting is in the engagement terms.

Sometimes I need to give a gentle reminder to someone if they forgot, but usually it works out. Ask and ye shall receive...

I work with Hip Hop a lot and I will say that engineers get all sorts of other disrespect, mostly from diva rappers who think its ok or even cool to be aggressive and pushy as part of their collaborative working attitude. I can't tell you how many times I've had or observed a rapper start rudely bossing the engineer around because he thinks thats how Jay Z would do it. It gets my goat every time because its just plain rude and no one, not even Jay Z is entitled to be rude to another person. Have some manners people.

The music suffers if the vibe isn't chill.
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Has nothing to do with hip hop. Engineers don't get much respect anywhere.
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Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Has nothing to do with hip hop. Engineers don't get much respect anywhere.
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10th December 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by light View Post
i dont care what u saying im playing something that was mixed / mastered right
word
FyLe ForMatz
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Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Has nothing to do with hip hop. Engineers don't get much respect anywhere.
right.

but why is that?

what exactly is going on here?

do artists think that engineers contributions are insignificant?

do artists think that engineers are easily replaceable?

not getting ink anywhere kinda says your job or your role doesn't mean much.
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Originally Posted by 2toxic View Post
Usually the producer is the mixer for independent hip-hop songs.
right.

my whole thing is when the producer is NOT the mix engineer; which i'm sure happens more often than not.

but yeah, i guess nobody really gives a flying fukc who mixed the record - or they don't care to know if someone mixed it besides the person who produced it.

oh well.

it can be difficult to claim credit if your credits are nowhere to be seen.
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sounds like insecure people.

Secure folx have no problem giving credit, because they'll always have the opportunity to impress. Its untalented losers that usually need artificial ownership and creds for everything to make it seem like they're better than what they are. Compensation. It happens. A lot.
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yea, engineers get shit on. but since im not a pro working with stars i tell the twit to sit down and show me what he means. i show him my plugins how to get to them where his tracks are, then put the DAW on the edit screen, 5-10 min later after his pride hurts a little i have to show him how to get to the mix window. then the attitude changes. gotta fight fire with fire sometimes. pluse its 10 min paid break.
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FyLe ForMatz
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Originally Posted by smoke View Post
Its untalented losers that usually need artificial ownership and creds for everything to make it seem like they're better than what they are. Compensation. It happens. A lot.
EXCELLENT POST, man.

truth serum.

especially with all these prima-donna / diva rappers; shit is a damn shame.
FyLe ForMatz
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10th December 2013
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Originally Posted by skillz335 View Post
gotta fight fire with fire sometimes
word.

it's just bullshit that cats come to you for services and don't even respect those services - until you gotta actually put 'em on blast in order to get get props.

egomania and Hip-Hop go hand-in-hand.
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10th December 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post
sounds like insecure people.

Secure folx have no problem giving credit, because they'll always have the opportunity to impress. Its untalented losers that usually need artificial ownership and creds for everything to make it seem like they're better than what they are. Compensation. It happens. A lot.
YOU MEAN LIKE KANYE??????!!!

Sorry I had to, one more time before that other thread finally dies off.

Wale is the defending champ though. If I recall he dropped some line about being a one-man band or something.
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Originally Posted by anstahc View Post
you mean like kanye??????!!!
hes a genius and engineerz should feel graced to be in his presence!!
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^^^ no doubt, i kind of get it cuz they think they work hard which they do if they have talent. and they think its them that naturally sounds good and were just capturing that. I remember the first time i went to a studio though, i couldn't believe that was my voice based off of how much of my own recording i did prior. I still dont think im as good as my first studio recording i heard myself on in regard to engineering, but im getting there off subject sorry, alls im trying to say is, if i could notice that i would guess some people have a that perspective as well. the ones that dont though fail to think about is the amount of prep it takes to get things to sound good. I have worked with a lot more respectfull people then assholes though so thats cool I guess. what i fail to understand is if they think its that easy why did they show up to begin with instead of doing it themselves. which i also think if they all tryed they would garnish a bit more respect. I notice that alot more with hip hop artists but some rock kats ive recorded can get there too.
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10th December 2013
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Originally Posted by Dayl View Post
hes a genius and engineerz should feel graced to be in his presence!!
We upgraded genius to mastermind, remember.
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11th December 2013
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Originally Posted by anstahc View Post
We upgraded genius to mastermind, remember.
Ahaa thats right.
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Originally Posted by skillz335 View Post
why did they show up to begin with instead of doing it themselves
exactly.

don't show up then not give people credit after everything is said and done.

i know it's a 'work-for-hire' type of situation...and in most 'work-for-hire' situations, credit is NOT part of the deal, but damn - giving credit where credit is due just seems like the right thing to do.
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yea a shout out or something. on the artist side i try to do that every collab/track. its respect. but the animosity might be the starving artist thing. and eveyones trying to pinch pennies. so it is what it is sometimes.
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i remember when i was pushing free cds back years ago around town, i would put the engineers business and name on them. dude worked hard and quick.thought that was a cool thing to do.
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At the very least artists should mention these guys when they are accepting awards. I almost never hear these names and they should be near the front of the list. It's always my family, my manager, my agent, my publicist, my stylist, my wardrobe whatever the hell, the caterers, the venue custodial staff, maybe my producer, Scooter Braun, God, and I have the best fans in the world.
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Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz View Post
right.

but why is that?

what exactly is going on here?

do artists think that engineers contributions are insignificant?

do artists think that engineers are easily replaceable?

not getting ink anywhere kinda says your job or your role doesn't mean much.
I think that when an artist is juggling all the shit that comes with releasing a record, it's easy to forget the engineer. There's a simple solution: don't let em forget. Hassle em. Don't be shy about how you want your name to appear. And keep tabs where they're at in the process so you can politely remind them at then appropriate time. Most artists are cool about this, they're just forgetful or distracted. It's largely on you as engineer to make sure you follow through and get your credit right.
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Engineer usually get cash, not credit. If all you want is credit, don't take the cash. Similar arrangement for session players.
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Originally Posted by anstahc View Post
At the very least artists should mention these guys when they are accepting awards. I almost never hear these names and they should be near the front of the list
EXACTLY!

it's ridiculous how little respect / recognition engineers get!

and for that to be an established norm is beyond comprehension.

and i guess the engineers don't really make in issue out of it because they got paid; so i guess it's more about money than credit / respect / brand-recognition.
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Originally Posted by NYCruiser View Post
Engineer usually get cash, not credit. If all you want is credit, don't take the cash. Similar arrangement for session players.
good points
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As said, usually we get paid and that's good enough in most cases. I've worked with plenty of people who spend a lot of money in the studio and on videos and don't see a huge return but continue to do it because they love doing it. Like Story said, they're usually juggling everything regarding their project so if you're hell bent on getting your name on the finished product, I'd assume they'd be for it.

As far as actual respect, I think that boils down to a few things... your reputation, your past work, and what you charge. If you charge something like 10 bucks an hour or 25 bucks a song - you're going to attract the broke, fly-by-the-night, a-star-today-quitting-rap-tomorrow type of clowns. I see it a lot - a new kid with a "studio" or a guy with a camera who wants to shoot videos tries to low ball their way into the game, but they only ever get those low ball type clients. Eventually they get sick of it and up their rates and usually by that time the next low baller is there to clean up the mess and deal with those clients. If you have a higher rate - you've probably built a strong and reliable client base and don't have to worry about them leaving you for the "new cheap guy".

The most respectful people I've recorded were signed to major labels in the 90's and toured with that whole era of Wu Tang, Pun, Mobb Deep, Redman, Diddy, etc. Crazy polite, extremely talented and professional. I always found that part hilarious... The ones that deserve to have an ego NEVER have one, and the ones who have virtually no resume have the HUGEST egos.
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11th December 2013
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Yeah I don't get it either. Especially in today's day and age, where most rappers just spit garbage, the producers and engineers do way more work than the artist.

I've worked with people before and I spent literally an entire month producing and mixing a song and the artists gives me the most terrible vocals and when someone gives them props on the song, they act like they did all the work lmao.
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