engineers don't get respect in Hip-Hop?
#331
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #331
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skillz335's Avatar
lol, if everyone could rap everyone would. there are just as many shitty engineers and producers as rappers out there. So really though what aspect of rapping is easy? the writing, the performance? the rhyming? delivery? the content? appealing to your target audience?
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#332
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #332
Quote:
Originally Posted by skillz335 View Post
lol, if everyone could rap everyone would. there are just as many shitty engineers and producers as rappers out there. So really though what aspect of rapping is easy? the writing, the performance? the rhyming? delivery? the content? appealing to your target audience?


Lemme break it down for you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by skillz335 View Post
lol, if everyone could rap everyone would.
Except for all the people who don't like rap, or rapping. The same is true for virtually any discipline; just because something is easy, doesn't mean "everyone" would do it, or even want to do it.

Some folks even like doing things specifically because they find them challenging.

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there are just as many shitty engineers and producers as rappers out there.
I have yet to claim otherwise, although I suppose now that you have me considering it, I'd argue that there are probably, in fact, way, way, waaaay more shitty engineers and producers (per capita, of course) than there are shitty rappers*.

All of which sorta goes to my point.

*some of us even make a living doing it!

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So really though what aspect of rapping is easy?
I didn't say any of it was easy.

But, since you asked about specifics...

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the writing,
Depends on your audience.

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the performance?
Depends on your venue.

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the rhyming?
Depends on your…well..actually, yeah, rhyming is generally pretty easy.

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delivery?
Definitely the hardest part of being a good rapper.

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the content?
Too subjective. Could be easy just as readily as it could be hard.

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appealing to your target audience?
Doesn't necessarily make you a good (or bad) rapper (See: Soulja Boy), nor does it necessarily correlate to how hard you've worked.
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#333
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #333
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrg27 View Post
Being an engineer is for people who can't produce. Just like ya being a producer cuz ya can't even spit. lmfao.
Possibly explains a few engineers I've worked with (people that couldn't even set up a decent headphone send with no latency)!

Of course, not true...but might well be the perception in some cases.

Might also explain the poor sound of much amateur hip hop.
#334
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #334
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skillz335's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post


Lemme break it down for you:



Except for all the people who don't like rap, or rapping. The same is true for virtually any discipline; just because something is easy, doesn't mean "everyone" would do it, or even want to do it.

Some folks even like doing things specifically because they find them challenging.



I have yet to claim otherwise, although I suppose now that you have me considering it, I'd argue that there are probably, in fact, way, way, waaaay more shitty engineers and producers (per capita, of course) than there are shitty rappers*.

All of which sorta goes to my point.

*some of us even make a living doing it!



I didn't say any of it was easy.

But, since you asked about specifics...



Depends on your audience.



Depends on your venue.



Depends on your…well..actually, yeah, rhyming is generally pretty easy.



Definitely the hardest part of being a good rapper.



Too subjective. Could be easy just as readily as it could be hard.



Doesn't necessarily make you a good (or bad) rapper (See: Soulja Boy), nor does it necessarily correlate to how hard you've worked.

well yea, obviously eveything is subjective..subjective to opinion, subjective to situation, and even subjective to other peoples perspectives which are garnished from situations that which they experience. So in a way experience dictates pretty much everything. thats true for any aspect of growth. and has been established in this thread on multiple occasions.


like most of you been saying the artist is the "most important" aspect of any track. As an artist/engineer I understand and respect all the work involved in a project. To me at least you cant have a project without the participants that can make the project happen and final. This is my opinion, take one away from the equation and everything else suffers. Same can be said for respect.

also in regard to me saying "the writing, the performance? the rhyming? delivery? the content? appealing to your target audience?" My point was all these things summed into one thing is MC, that may or may not be different for you. Some clients may just have a one or few of these quality's some may have none. But to me an MC is a rapper who encompasses all the quality's it takes to be a star. So I think I may be following what your saying to some extent, it is ironic. I hope I dont come across as pompous or self righteous that is not my intentions. Im just trying to say if rapping was easy there would be more people capable of doing so. As to whether or not hip hop is in a bad way right now is a whole other thing.
#335
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #335
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Inverted314's Avatar
 

I think most people don't know the difference between producing and engineering. Even people that do both.
#336
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post


You think rapping is harder than producing?
They work harder imo if I'm not mistaken. The director expected them to do this and that. They could get stress too. Ya engineers are pretty lazy ya just want the money right?
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#337
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #337
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Originally Posted by nrg27 View Post
They work harder imo if I'm not mistaken. The director expected them to do this and that. They could get stress too. Ya engineers are pretty lazy ya just want the money right?
Who ever heard of a rapper talking about gettin' money?
#338
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverted314 View Post
I think most people don't know the difference between producing and engineering. Even people that do both.
Well, to be fair, producing means different things to different people. T-Bone works different from Rubin, who works different from Rich Costey.

As an aside: are you of the mind that beatmaking is an endeavor separate from producing?
#339
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Well, to be fair, producing means different things to different people. T-Bone works different from Rubin, who works different from Rich Costey.

As an aside: are you of the mind that beatmaking is an endeavor separate from producing?

I think of producing as making the right sonic choices for the song.

At the same time, I know a lot of "beat makers" who have no experience in producing a song anywhere BESIDE the beat IE: lyrics, arrangement, harmonies, etc. so just as you said, producing means different things for different people.

I think the experience of the other people in the room means a lot too. I have much more experience writing then my producers usually do, so a lot of times they trust me to get that part right and stick to the beat.

That being said, this could be part of the reason why so many people know how to make BEATS but not necessarily SONGS.
#340
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoLeoLeo View Post
Its that when you have a certain workload & a independent(1 man show) engineer, keeping up with getting all credits would be a full time job. You have to choose your battles & keep on it. Even then, your not the one typing the layout for album.

It's not some big conspiracy. I think it's just a oversight & lack of thoroughness that has become the norm these days.
This.

Hip hop is a game of ego nowadays (for the most part). The majority of independent rappers are not thinking about giving credit to all the people that put work into their project because they're thinking about their own image and gains above all else. Sometimes people put out projects where they don't even give the producers credit.

It's the idea that certain people will be attracted to a position because those positions allow for power over others. The same reason some people become politicians, cops...etc. Not everyone in these positions are power hungry, but a large amount of them are (and many unaware they are), simply because these are positions of dominance. And positions of dominance rarely attract empathetic or meditative personalities.

That ego takes over and it never becomes, "oh let me think about it from *the engineer's* perspective because he's doing a lot of work too." That would be completely backwards from what the average MC is thinking.
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#341
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #341
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sketcho View Post
This.

Hip hop is a game of ego nowadays (for the most part). The majority of independent rappers are not thinking about giving credit to all the people that put work into their project because they're thinking about their own image and gains above all else. Sometimes people put out projects where they don't even give the producers credit.

It's the idea that certain people will be attracted to a position because those positions allow for power over others. The same reason some people become politicians, cops...etc. Not everyone in these positions are power hungry, but a large amount of them are (and many unaware they are), simply because these are positions of dominance. And positions of dominance rarely attract empathetic or meditative personalities.

That ego takes over and it never becomes, "oh let me think about it from *the engineer's* perspective because he's doing a lot of work too." That would be completely backwards from what the average MC is thinking.
u ****in right... that was some straight game.... i can tell u been around... rap is the #1 ego trip vessell especially if they get some money or some fame out it... then u see cats forget everything they ever knew start gettin caught up in the hype... i done seen it... but even if they not famous they never on time, they rarely respectful, and rarely give a shit what u goin thru they would never put themselves in your shoes... shit thats 99 percent of america tho... me, even tho i rap, i always try to treat people the way i want to b treated whether they can help me or not... nice guys finish last tho, u gotta be strong this the music business its a dirty game... i dont trust nobody... lol u can do a song wit someone 1 week and be beefin wit em a week later that how it b...
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#342
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #342
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problem with rap these days is... its all about popularity... and the focus on the music is slim to none... its more about image than it is music... thats why things r the way they are, cats do bullshit beefs for attention, make wack songs call themselves stupid names, anything for some fame so they can get the attention... to me... that is some straight bullshit... but thats the way it is... what can u do when u go to a DJ wit a hit song and the first thing he ask is how many twitter followers do you have... like motha ****a can you listen to the track... nobody wanna hear shit unless u already on... this attitude makes the more popular people successful, but being popular doesnt neccessarily mean your talented (rebecca black)...

this all ties into rap cuz u see cats who don't care about the music, dont care about shit, but they popular for whatever reason, so they getting played on the radio or getting signed... but honestly u can only go so far with that attitude, if u dont really got the love for the craft, you will never last... gotta have heart first, make a good product first... if more rappers focused on quality they woudn't have no problems giving cats credit... but dont hate the player hate the game the genre made itself this way theres a lot of reasons things are the way they are... either u deal wit it or move on...

me myself personally the engineering of a song is just as important as the song itself that goes for any genre... i would listen to an album just from the fact that the sound quality is great i might not even like the rapper that much... engineers i think get more credit than they ever did these days because you can find out about them through the internet... in the past they got no shine
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#343
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrg27 View Post
Can someone educate me on this one. Why do singer/rapper get more recognition than producers/engineers? I mean think about it. I have seen it across chat rooms. Everytime when you go rap on the mic or just sing a love song, the girls are always almost the one that feel in love with you. But when you're the one that make the beat or mixed it, it's like you're nothing. lmao!
Greatest post of all time
#344
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #344
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrg27 View Post
The singer or rapper are almost the ones who is getting the girls.

When you sing that's when the ladies love it.
LOL
FyLe ForMatz
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#345
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #345
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by skillz335 View Post
To me at least you cant have a project without the participants that can make the project happen and final. This is my opinion, take one away from the equation and everything else suffers. Same can be said for respect
that's basically how i see it too.
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#346
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #346
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
producing means different things to different people
right.

titles are damn near opinions when it comes to music.
FyLe ForMatz
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#347
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #347
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by sketcho View Post
The majority of independent rappers are not thinking about giving credit to all the people that put work into their project because they're thinking about their own image and gains above all else
i agree 100%.
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#348
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by light View Post
nice guys finish last tho, u gotta be strong this the music business its a dirty game... i dont trust nobody... lol u can do a song wit someone 1 week and be beefin wit em a week later that how it b...
...couldn't have said it better myself...
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FyLe ForMatz
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#349
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by light View Post
the first thing he ask is how many twitter followers do you have...
right...right...
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FyLe ForMatz
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#350
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #350
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by light View Post
its all about popularity... and the focus on the music is slim to none... its more about image than it is music...
EXACTLY.

the 'industry' is basically HIGH-SCHOOL all fukcing over again.
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FyLe ForMatz
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#351
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by light View Post
the genre made itself this way theres a lot of reasons things are the way they are...
agreed.

it's totally quite the complicated beast.

but yeah, rap / Hip-Hop sold itself out DECADES ago; GENERALLY SPEAKING.
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#352
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #352
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Simple! Real engineers are too embarrssed to be credited with "engineering" that kind of music. I won't go near it myself...
#353
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Simple! Real engineers are too embarrssed to be credited with "engineering" that kind of music. I won't go near it myself...
HAHA best answer ever. Nothing like a little good ol' fashioned bigotry to show everyone how close minded you are.
#354
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
No, I just don't like the music! You are reading into it. I know a white guy who "sings" speaks, or MCs hiphop about Indian gods and goddesses, and I feel the same about his... can't call it music... Feel the same about most opera! :-)
There is a dramatic difference between you "not liking the music" and claiming "real engineers are too embarrassed to be credited" with it.
#355
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #355
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I deleted my posts, but they were no worse than the above "Most rappers just spit garbage"
#356
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Simple! Real engineers are too embarrssed to be credited with "engineering" that kind of music. I won't go near it myself...
Id love for just a chance to engineer a track at a lot of your level.. That pisses me off that engineers are embarrassed to engineer albums.

edit: to even be a part of a track that gets heard.

Last edited by skillz335; 4th January 2014 at 11:11 PM.. Reason: a lot of your level
#357
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverted314 View Post
There is a dramatic difference between you "not liking the music" and claiming "real engineers are too embarrassed to be credited" with it.
I agree, you dont have to like something, professional to me is to still do your best regardless.
#358
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #358
Yeah, pretty sure vast majority of professional engineers out there take on plenty of projects they don't necessarily love. If you have the luxury to be "too embarrassed" to pass up work, good for you. The rest of us have bills to pay.
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#359
4th January 2014
Old 4th January 2014
  #359
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It all ends when you hear bgrotto rap. Go head killa... just be careful dont hurt us now.
#360
5th January 2014
Old 5th January 2014
  #360
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