Login / Register
 
engineers don't get respect in Hip-Hop?
New Reply
Subscribe
#301
19th December 2013
Old 19th December 2013
  #301
Lives for gear
 
Inverted314's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: underwater
Posts: 1,114

Inverted314 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
And for whatever reason, this type of behavior only seems to occur in hip hop.
I think the reason is pretty obvious. Hiphop lacks musicianship and practice regimen like artists in other genres which is exactly why the guitarist nailed his stuff and meanwhile in rapland dudes can't even TALK (rap) their song in one take.

This is coming from a rapper.
Quote
1
FyLe ForMatz
Thread Starter
#302
19th December 2013
Old 19th December 2013
  #302
Lives for gear
 
FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 839

Thread Starter
FyLe ForMatz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
the OP is waaay too preoccupied with engineers, and what they do
i think the only reason for that is because that's my biggest issue; my mixes.

if i had a problem making beats or writing lyrics, then that would be my focal point.
FyLe ForMatz
Thread Starter
#303
20th December 2013
Old 20th December 2013
  #303
Lives for gear
 
FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 839

Thread Starter
FyLe ForMatz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
imagine if 36 Chambers were made today, by the A-Listers whose names seem to populate the liner notes of damn near every pop rap record these days. All that grit and attitude gone. Polished clean, made safe. It would be so much less of an artistic statement. So much less impactful. It might sound great, as many contemporary pop rap records do, but it might also be stripped of a great deal of musical and emotional depth and meaning.
that's actually a really dope point, man.
#304
20th December 2013
Old 20th December 2013
  #304
Lives for gear
 
Dayl's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 4,671

Dayl is offline
someone teach this noob how to multi quote.... if this thread wasn't already filled with enough struggle....
__________________
'You don't finish, you just run out of time' - Dave Pensado on mixing
Quote
3
#305
20th December 2013
Old 20th December 2013
  #305
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Slum-a-ville, Mass
Posts: 7,193
My Recordings/Credits

bgrotto is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by skillz335 View Post
No worries on the long winded thing, I like learning from people and there experiences more then reading dry books on etiquette, protocol, and technique. simply because I believe all that is variable and situational. Not saying that doesn't help though cuz it does. I also struggle with the math of things so that stuff slows me down most of the time as well.

ok, i think i get it, the most important step after writing and performance is whatever it takes to best capture that, regardless if its one mic or 50 hours mixing? sorry it was kind of a broad question with a shit ton of variables but Im learning as I go. Thanks
#306
20th December 2013
Old 20th December 2013
  #306
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Slum-a-ville, Mass
Posts: 7,193
My Recordings/Credits

bgrotto is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz View Post
i think the only reason for that is because that's my biggest issue; my mixes.

if i had a problem making beats or writing lyrics, then that would be my focal point.
Yeah! That's what I've been trying to say this whole time!!
#307
21st December 2013
Old 21st December 2013
  #307
Gear Head
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 74

jlgrimes11 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2toxic View Post

I have to say in general though that I believe hip-hop is relatively easier to mix than a good amount of other genres.
Like what one guy said, I think it is different.

The easy part of hip hop is that usually Live drums aren't recorded which would be the hard thing to mix in other more live genres.


Also if you are doing sample based tracks, the mixing process would be a bit easier (especially if the sample was mixed greatly from the start).


But I think the modern loud and layered sound can be a bit difficult. That said it is very easy to achieve a loud and layered sound but a loud and layered sound that sounds pleasant to the ears at loud levels is not that easy.
Quote
1
#308
23rd December 2013
Old 23rd December 2013
  #308
Gear addict
 
WildStyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana - Naptown

WildStyle is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlgrimes11 View Post
Like what one guy said, I think it is different.

The easy part of hip hop is that usually Live drums aren't recorded which would be the hard thing to mix in other more live genres.


Also if you are doing sample based tracks, the mixing process would be a bit easier (especially if the sample was mixed greatly from the start).


But I think the modern loud and layered sound can be a bit difficult. That said it is very easy to achieve a loud and layered sound but a loud and layered sound that sounds pleasant to the ears at loud levels is not that easy.
Mixing has definitely gotten more difficult in hiphop. A lot of artists aren't doing oldschool Boom Bap with a kick, hihat, snare and a catch sample or two. What you have a lot more of is tracks with full symphonic arrangements with multi layered synthesizers, several different kicks, snares, hihats, claps, and artists multi layering rap and singing vocals. With all these elements fighting to be heard CLEANLY and the current state of the loudness wars mixing a hiphop song is just as challenging as any other genre now.

As a beatmaker in a city not commonly known for great hiphop I learned engineering because there aren't a lot of competent studios where that's likely to be mixed creatively and artistically.
I feel like hiphop has evolved so much that the old terms aren't accurate anymore, nor the attitudes.

Couple of months ago I recorded an artists over Wu-Tang's "CREAM" beat.
Mixing was so simple I can see why engineers weren't considered a critical piece to the puzzle originally.
__________________
A few of my banging tracks - https://soundcloud.com/mrwildstyle
FyLe ForMatz
Thread Starter
#309
23rd December 2013
Old 23rd December 2013
  #309
Lives for gear
 
FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 839

Thread Starter
FyLe ForMatz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildStyle View Post
Couple of months ago I recorded an artists over Wu-Tang's "CREAM" beat.
Mixing was so simple I can see why engineers weren't considered a critical piece to the puzzle originally.
idk about that....i mean, you mixed vocals over an instrumental...which is basically just half the job.
Quote
1
Dor
#310
24th December 2013
Old 24th December 2013
  #310
Dor
Lives for gear
 
Dor's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,789
My Recordings/Credits

Dor is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildStyle View Post
Couple of months ago I recorded an artists over Wu-Tang's "CREAM" beat.
Mixing was so simple I can see why engineers weren't considered a critical piece to the puzzle originally.
Because audio engineers are geeks/nerds. Nuff said.

D
#311
26th December 2013
Old 26th December 2013
  #311
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,505
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz View Post
idk about that....i mean, you mixed vocals over an instrumental...which is basically just half the job.
That was the point he was making - reread what he wrote.
FyLe ForMatz
Thread Starter
#312
26th December 2013
Old 26th December 2013
  #312
Lives for gear
 
FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 839

Thread Starter
FyLe ForMatz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by texas heat View Post
Thing is I don't respect NO engineer till I hear his work with hip hop period!
that makes sense.

that's why i don't pay a LOT of people on here no mind when they ain't even got no links to their work.
#313
26th December 2013
Old 26th December 2013
  #313
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,505
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by texas heat View Post
Mixing rock and ish with drums hitting around 160 to 250HZ is f...... easy man I could do that ish with my eyes closed. You get respect from me when you can blend and mix hard drums hitting at 40-50hz bass hitting 80hz and still have a balanced mix. Who can't blend a 250hz kick lol all the other ish like guitar, piano, vocals is easy.
Maybe when you're working with samples. Good luck mixing a live kit with that attitude! Whilst I agree that just because you can mix one style, doesn't mean you're good at another, I don't think you can write off rock mixing as easy..feel free to post up examples of how good you are at it though and we can judge for ourselves!

Heck..the last "urban" engineer (he was the engineer for a writer/producer you'd ALL have heard of) I worked with couldn't record a vocal without a) printing it THROUGH autotune and a host of other plugins (why?!) and b) setting up a headphone send without a bucket of latency.

I was meant to be babysitting the session...when it came time to record drums I considered plugging in and line checking all the mikes, then saying "there you go mr engineer!" but I took pity on him (he was a nice guy) and so I did the hard work of getting the actual kit sound.

Different genres - different skills required. To write off one or the other as "f...easy" just shows disrespect and a lack of experience.
__________________
Recent Indie credits include:

Jack Robert Hardman (New EP now on sale), Morgan Joanel, and High-Tails.

If I've helped you out, please consider supporting these artists as a favour to me!

Major label credits include Pharrell/Alicia Keys, Ricky Martin (Aus #3), John Legend, Samantha Jade, Di-Rect (Dutch #1), etc
Quote
1
#314
27th December 2013
Old 27th December 2013
  #314
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Slum-a-ville, Mass
Posts: 7,193
My Recordings/Credits

bgrotto is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by texas heat View Post
Thing is I don't respect NO engineer till I hear his work with hip hop period! Mixing rock and ish with drums hitting around 160 to 250HZ is f...... easy man I could do that ish with my eyes closed. You get respect from me when you can blend and mix hard drums hitting at 40-50hz bass hitting 80hz and still have a balanced mix. Who can't blend a 250hz kick lol all the other ish like guitar, piano, vocals is easy.


Pop, modern rock, and virtually every style of hard rock won't have the drums hitting at 160 to 250. That's a bit high. Maybe the snare drum falls into that, but the same would be true for any genre.

Also, for what it's worth, I think it's waaaay harder to mix 160-250 well than it is to nail the sub bass range. A 250 kick is gonna step all over the rest of the rhythm section (which is one of those things that makes 70s R&B, funk, and disco records so damn amazing-sounding; there's actually a fair amount of 250 in those kicks and they manage to make it work).
__________________
Benny Grotto
Mad Oak Studio

=======================

Various Waves Bundles and Other Plugin Collections for Sale.

Click here for details!!

Prices are highly negotiable. Make me an offer.

=======================
#315
27th December 2013
Old 27th December 2013
  #315
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 259

~Zenshin Suru~ is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post
sounds like insecure people.

Secure folx have no problem giving credit, because they'll always have the opportunity to impress. Its untalented losers that usually need artificial ownership and creds for everything to make it seem like they're better than what they are. Compensation. It happens. A lot.
It's happened here... you get a copy of the record and it says that the artist engineered it... mmhmm.
#316
1st January 2014
Old 1st January 2014
  #316
Gear nut
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 134

nrg27 is offline
Can someone educate me on this one. Why do singer/rapper get more recognition than producers/engineers? I mean think about it. I have seen it across chat rooms. Everytime when you go rap on the mic or just sing a love song, the girls are always almost the one that feel in love with you. But when you're the one that make the beat or mixed it, it's like you're nothing. lmao!
Quote
1
#317
1st January 2014
Old 1st January 2014
  #317
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Slum-a-ville, Mass
Posts: 7,193
My Recordings/Credits

bgrotto is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrg27 View Post
Why do singer/rapper get more recognition than producers/engineers?



x1,000,000
#318
1st January 2014
Old 1st January 2014
  #318
Gear nut
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 134

nrg27 is offline
The singer or rapper are almost the ones who is getting the girls.

When you sing that's when the ladies love it.

What is wrong with this picture?
Quote
1
#319
1st January 2014
Old 1st January 2014
  #319
Lives for gear
 
Bender412's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,019
My Recordings/Credits

Bender412 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrg27 View Post
The singer or rapper are almost the ones who is getting the girls.

When you sing that's when the ladies love it.

What is wrong with this picture?
You'll fit right in here.
Quote
1
#320
2nd January 2014
Old 2nd January 2014
  #320
Lives for gear
 
Inverted314's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: underwater
Posts: 1,114

Inverted314 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrg27 View Post
Can someone educate me on this one. Why do singer/rapper get more recognition than producers/engineers? I mean think about it. I have seen it across chat rooms. Everytime when you go rap on the mic or just sing a love song, the girls are always almost the one that feel in love with you. But when you're the one that make the beat or mixed it, it's like you're nothing. lmao!
Because they usually aren't there.

How many times have you been to a concert and the engineer was on stage?
Are you really comparing a frontman to someone who works behind the scenes?

How come the racecar driver is more popular than his pit crew?
And why is Kobe is more popular than his personal trainer?

Exposure.

Premo on the decks while Guru was rocking mics gave Premo way more exposure then making a beat in the studio and Guru playing it on a CD player.
FyLe ForMatz
Thread Starter
#321
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #321
Lives for gear
 
FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 839

Thread Starter
FyLe ForMatz is offline
yeah...it's just crazy because hella kids grow up and wanna be rappers and producers and shit...only a handful wanna be engineers.

when i think about it...NOBODY i knew wanted to grow up and be a soundman.
#322
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #322
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,505
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz View Post
yeah...it's just crazy because hella kids grow up and wanna be rappers and producers and shit...only a handful wanna be engineers.

when i think about it...NOBODY i knew wanted to grow up and be a soundman.
Sometimes I get the feeling in a hiphop "crowd" everyone wants to be "producers" and "artists"...it's the guy left over who kind of becomes the engineer by default...bit like the goalie in many kids' soccer games.

Occasionally you get the kid who actively WANTS to be in goal, and maybe does a whole lot better than any other kid.

Just the impression that I get. I could be well off base.
#323
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #323
Gear nut
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 134

nrg27 is offline
Being an engineer is for people who can't produce. Just like ya being a producer cuz ya can't even spit. lmfao.
#324
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #324
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Slum-a-ville, Mass
Posts: 7,193
My Recordings/Credits

bgrotto is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrg27 View Post
Being an engineer is for people who can't produce. Just like ya being a producer cuz ya can't even spit. lmfao.


You think rapping is harder than producing?
Quote
3
#325
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #325
Lives for gear
 
BillSimpkins's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Bellingham, WA

BillSimpkins is offline
This is a true story:

The same thing was happening to me for years, but after reading the credits on the releases I got a suspicion as to why this was happening. Lucky for me, I had a hip-hop client that I became really good friends with and I was able to ask him why this was the case.

The reason was that my name was too "plain" and "white". Not only did they want their music to be cool and rough, they also wanted everything else on the CD that way, including the credits. If the name was not cool sounding or seemed out of place from all the other names, no credit. So we came up with an alt name for me for hip-hop projects (I keep it secret), and I've been on all the credits ever since. The artists even know and ask for me by this name now and even mention me in their songs as bragging rights that they got me behind the desk. A lot of them don't even know my real name! That's OK, I think it is silly too! It is my alternate engineering ego. If my real ego and this one ever met, I may explode.
Quote
1
#326
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #326
Lives for gear
 
skillz335's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: the stratosphere
Posts: 1,380
My Recordings/Credits

skillz335 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post


You think rapping is harder than producing?
I think all three are equally challenging. some rap is a joke I get that but don't discredit a genera because of a few less talented people.
__________________


Quasar

fire

Club

Matrix1.4

Blue London
FyLe ForMatz
Thread Starter
#327
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #327
Lives for gear
 
FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 839

Thread Starter
FyLe ForMatz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Sometimes I get the feeling in a hiphop "crowd" everyone wants to be "producers" and "artists"...it's the guy left over who kind of becomes the engineer by default...bit like the goalie in many kids' soccer games
exactly! lol
FyLe ForMatz
Thread Starter
#328
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #328
Lives for gear
 
FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 839

Thread Starter
FyLe ForMatz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSimpkins View Post
If the name was not cool sounding or seemed out of place from all the other names, no credit
DAMN that's ILL.
#329
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #329
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Slum-a-ville, Mass
Posts: 7,193
My Recordings/Credits

bgrotto is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by skillz335 View Post
I think all three are equally challenging. some rap is a joke I get that but don't discredit a genera because of a few less talented people.
I'm not discrediting anything. I'm laughing at the (idiotic) notion that rapping is somehow more difficult than producing or engineering.
Quote
3
#330
3rd January 2014
Old 3rd January 2014
  #330
Lives for gear
 
skillz335's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: the stratosphere
Posts: 1,380
My Recordings/Credits

skillz335 is offline
lol, if everyone could rap everyone would. there are just as many shitty engineers and producers as rappers out there. So really though what aspect of rapping is easy? the writing, the performance? the rhyming? delivery? the content? appealing to your target audience?
Quote
1
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.