ON THE MIKE with EL-P...

ShaneFontane · 20th September 2006, 07:34 PM

I'm sure many of you have read this by now, if you haven't it's worth a read... enjoy

ON THE MIKE

For the most part, the producers we spoke to record vocals well before finishing the music for a track. Beyond that, they have divergent thoughts on the importance of compression, mics, and other factors. El-P is in the unusual position of both rhyming and producing; he says he knows that a beat is finished when rhymes start popping into his head. “I have the curse and the benefit of being a producer and an MC,” El-P says. “The benefit is that I get to make my own beats. The curse is that I don't like to give them to anyone else.”

Mics are only marginally important to El-P. He uses a Røde tube mic and a Shure SM54, which he calls “a raw performance mic with dents in it.” He adds, “I've also recorded songs through headphones. Ultimately, what matters is what sounds right for the song.” El-P recommends placing the mic about four or five inches from the vocalist's face, “so you can catch some of the tail end of the sound,” and recording the vocals the same way you would at a rock show: “It's unnatural for an MC to just stand in front of a microphone and spit his shit. Hold the mic in your hand, move around, do what you need to do.”

El-P usually records vocals onto Alesis ADATs, or sometimes into Pro Tools using a Digidesign Digi 001. He'll do a lot of re-arranging of music after recording vocals, “and that's one of the greatest things about having Pro Tools,” he says. “I lay vocals down and then go back and really pick apart the track. It's a beautiful thing if you want to take one snare out at one spot. It's just really easy.” El-P digs the automation of both Pro Tools and his main mixing board, a Mackie Digital 8-Bus. He can't imagine going back to the days before automation. “For years I used analog boards,” he recalls. “I remember the hell of having to mix an entire song where the process was like some kind of modern-dance performance! For four minutes straight you have to twist knobs, do punches, do drops and fader rides — and if you screw one thing up you have to do that shit again.”

Processing the recorded vocals is one of the trickiest aspects of production. A lot of people assume that vocals have to be compressed, but El-P says he's against compression. “Hip-hop music is not meant to be squashed down,” he says. “It's just not a good sound for me. It doesn't have any edge. I like having the imperfections involved in the whole picture.” EI-P does recommend using the best mic preamp you can afford and dialing in a good parametric EQ for vocals. If you have that, he suggests, you won't need much compression. “It's okay to compress vocals here and there to give it a space that you can't get from just a parametric EQ,” he concedes. “My big objection is really when it comes down to compressing drums and compressing bass. The reason so many hip-hop records sound the same is that everyone is using the same drum machine, and every engineer just squashes the shit out of everything.”

“A lot of times I'm trying to re-create a feel of a record that I love, something from my childhood. It's like trying to re-create the same feelings that got me in love with the music in the first place, and making it my own.”
— El-P

Full Sory:
http://remixmag.com/mag/remix_bomb_tracks_hiphop/

azwun25 · 20th September 2006, 08:35 PM

yeah i read this awhile back..i love Def Jux records..its funny because he says he's against compression but the Def Jux records sound loaded with heavy comp. either way they're putting out dope shit.

t.dizzle · 20th September 2006, 08:54 PM

I don't know who this guy is, but to me it sounds like he's talkin' outta his ass.

“It's unnatural for an MC to just stand in front of a microphone and spit his shit. Hold the mic in your hand, move around, do what you need to do.”

Unnatural? Rap concerts suck badly - and the main reason is because the vocals are all over the place.

“Hip-hop music is not meant to be squashed down”

According to who? If you know what you're doing with a compressor, things sound BIGGER.

"The reason so many hip-hop records sound the same is that everyone is using the same drum machine, and every engineer just squashes the shit out of everything."

Nonsense.

cynic · 20th September 2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

I don't know who this guy is, but to me it sounds like he's talkin' outta his ass.

“It's unnatural for an MC to just stand in front of a microphone and spit his shit. Hold the mic in your hand, move around, do what you need to do.”

Unnatural? Rap concerts suck badly - and the main reason is because the vocals are all over the place.

“Hip-hop music is not meant to be squashed down”

According to who? If you know what you're doing with a compressor, things sound BIGGER.

"The reason so many hip-hop records sound the same is that everyone is using the same drum machine, and every engineer just squashes the shit out of everything."

Nonsense.

If you don't know who El-P is you need to do some hip-hop history.....start with Company Flow - Funcrusher Plus

t.dizzle · 21st September 2006, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynic

If you don't know who El-P is you need to do some hip-hop history.....start with Company Flow - Funcrusher Plus

Not interested. One day I realized that my entire cd collection was based on incredible sonics just as much as the incredible music.

tengu · 21st September 2006, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

I don't know who this guy is, but to me it sounds like he's talkin' outta his ass.

“It's unnatural for an MC to just stand in front of a microphone and spit his shit. Hold the mic in your hand, move around, do what you need to do.”

Unnatural? Rap concerts suck badly - and the main reason is because the vocals are all over the place.

“Hip-hop music is not meant to be squashed down”

According to who? If you know what you're doing with a compressor, things sound BIGGER.

"The reason so many hip-hop records sound the same is that everyone is using the same drum machine, and every engineer just squashes the shit out of everything."

Nonsense.

I saw EL-P and Mr Liff perform in Tokyo. Sonically, El-P was the best MC I have heard live. He has an amazing vocal technique and definitely knows his shit.

Def Jux is a well respected label and EL-P gets things done. His reference to moving around was more about projecting an energy and vibe. Good MC's have to be able to rock it live. Many struggle to take their live energy to the recording and I suppose his suggestion was to bring that energy to the recording.

"Rap concerts suck badly" does not apply to a Def Jux gig with EL-P.

ShaneFontane · 21st September 2006, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

I don't know who this guy is, but to me it sounds like he's talkin' outta his ass.

“It's unnatural for an MC to just stand in front of a microphone and spit his shit. Hold the mic in your hand, move around, do what you need to do.”

Unnatural? Rap concerts suck badly - and the main reason is because the vocals are all over the place.

“Hip-hop music is not meant to be squashed down”

According to who? If you know what you're doing with a compressor, things sound BIGGER.

"The reason so many hip-hop records sound the same is that everyone is using the same drum machine, and every engineer just squashes the shit out of everything."

Nonsense.

Hey T.Dizzle... I understand where you are coming from because his comments are quite unorthodox, this is my point of posting it. To truly understand you have to have heard their work.

There crew has some of todays illest drt available. Creativity and efficiency they are lacking none of. Very skilled assasins.

Web Site
http://store.definitivejux.net/

Artists
http://www.definitivejux.net/jukies/

Enjoy a brave new world :)

e-cue · 21st September 2006, 03:27 AM

I'm a Def Jux fan, specifically the earlier Aesop Rock stuff, but I don't think that label capable of putting out good sounding records. DIY indie hip hop is great and all, but I'd sure like to hear one good SOUNDING record come out of that camp. When WuTang was lo fi, it's was cool. Just seems kinda ametuerish and ignorant (I once read an article where he was claiming warmth with digital tape because it was to tape and not daw) with Def Jux.

ShaneFontane · 21st September 2006, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-cue

I'm a Def Jux fan, specifically the earlier Aesop Rock stuff, but I don't think that label capable of putting out good sounding records. DIY indie hip hop is great and all, but I'd sure like to hear one good SOUNDING record come out of that camp. When WuTang was lo fi, it's was cool. Just seems kinda ametuerish and ignorant (I once read an article where he was claiming warmth with digital tape because it was to tape and not daw) with Def Jux.

This can be a valid point.

Good music vs Good recordings? Uh oh. What's more important. lol.

cynic · 21st September 2006, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Not interested. One day I realized that my entire cd collection was based on incredible sonics just as much as the incredible music.

you're seriously ignorant of great music being put out then. sad your music collection doesn't stem outside of the top 10.

e-cue · 21st September 2006, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneFontane

This can be a valid point.

Good music vs Good recordings? Uh oh. What's more important. lol.

God forbid we attain both in this day and age.

Vs.?

You have to choose?

t.dizzle · 21st September 2006, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynic

you're seriously ignorant of great music being put out then. sad your music collection doesn't stem outside of the top 10.

Man, words like "ignorant" can really turn a discussion into a flamefest.....
I think that you would do a double take if you saw my music collection.

ANYWAYZ - "When WuTang was lo fi, it's was cool." I was thinking the exact same thing.

ShaneFontane · 21st September 2006, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-cue

God forbid we attain both in this day and age.

Vs.?

You have to choose?

hahaha... i'm just sayin bro...
Sometimes true art isn't pretty. This doesn't only apply to music.

Def Jux has a sound thats uniqe to them. No worst or better. I'm sure their fans didn't care if they didnt mix on a Neve and I'm sure the club sound systems don't mind rockin their shit either.

Is it the same "sound" as radio material? No. But hey - some people don't give a rats ass about radio. As a matter of fact, I don't even own one. I hate FM. It's corrupt and thrives on whos got the big pockets vs what people want to hear. Instead of preprogrammed paid for spins, I prefer to listen to music in the clubs where the real vibe is at. Where music is fresh and the experience is new. Where are whack song is noted once people stop dancing. Don't get me wrong, radio music has its place. It sells millions of units but I'm just saying that in this example - I'm sure Def Jux is quite pleased with their business, music and most important - their life as artists :)

ShaneFontane · 21st September 2006, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

ANYWAYZ - "When WuTang was lo fi, it's was cool." I was thinking the exact same thing.

definitely... waaaay cool. it meant something.

ShaneFontane · 21st September 2006, 05:48 AM

Another example of lo-fi love vs high fi product is.... drum roll...

GUESS WHO'S BACK - 50 CENT

damnnnnnnn.... still my favorite album. Sure, some of the mixes don't sound as great as the new albums but I won't even buy the new shit cause it's losing more meaning as each album becomes more focused on shiny things, fast cars, million dollar gear, etc...

Dude, comeon... CORNER BODEGA kills it

Methlab · 21st September 2006, 05:38 PM

That Cannibal Ox album has some of the most creative beats I have ever heard.

azwun25 · 21st September 2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methlab

That Cannibal Ox album has some of the most creative beats I have ever heard.

i can second that as well as Aesop Rock "Labor Days"..thats a classic

Blues · 22nd September 2006, 03:26 PM

I think yall are missing the bigger picture here....and i'm laughing over here cuz...

Def Jux label grossed 3 million dollars as a label in 2004..which is exceptional for a hiphop indie..

..and they did with their music recorded on a ****in Mackie and the ever-so-shitty Digi-01...

WOW.

ps..Cold Vein was a disgustngly ill album...sounds like a subway wreck in the blackest corner of Dante's EZ Bake.....Hank Shocklee mustve jizzed his Depends when he heard that album..

brian_delizza · 22nd September 2006, 04:54 PM

Doesn't he rhyme about compressors on the album?

Oh well. Def jux is ILL. Period.

ShaneFontane · 22nd September 2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blues

I think yall are missing the bigger picture here....and i'm laughing over here cuz...

Def Jux label grossed 3 million dollars as a label in 2004..which is exceptional for a hiphop indie..

..and they did with their music recorded on a ****in Mackie and the ever-so-shitty Digi-01...

WOW.

DING DING DING!!!!

verseper verse · 14th October 2006, 01:08 AM

ideas that def jux is a great label and el-p is a genius because of his and the labels great work with aesop rock is grossly underestimating the mush record labels (and dose one's) influence on float. Labor days was largely produced, at the very least mentally, by the time rock signed with def jux.. i assume that his recent move to s.f. home of mush might indicate that he is leavig def jux, which for me would be a sign that he will make another great album.

20th September 2006, 07:34 PM	#1
ShaneFontane Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: DRTY JRZY Posts: 544	ON THE MIKE with EL-P... I'm sure many of you have read this by now, if you haven't it's worth a read... enjoy ON THE MIKE For the most part, the producers we spoke to record vocals well before finishing the music for a track. Beyond that, they have divergent thoughts on the importance of compression, mics, and other factors. El-P is in the unusual position of both rhyming and producing; he says he knows that a beat is finished when rhymes start popping into his head. “I have the curse and the benefit of being a producer and an MC,” El-P says. “The benefit is that I get to make my own beats. The curse is that I don't like to give them to anyone else.” Mics are only marginally important to El-P. He uses a Røde tube mic and a Shure SM54, which he calls “a raw performance mic with dents in it.” He adds, “I've also recorded songs through headphones. Ultimately, what matters is what sounds right for the song.” El-P recommends placing the mic about four or five inches from the vocalist's face, “so you can catch some of the tail end of the sound,” and recording the vocals the same way you would at a rock show: “It's unnatural for an MC to just stand in front of a microphone and spit his shit. Hold the mic in your hand, move around, do what you need to do.” El-P usually records vocals onto Alesis ADATs, or sometimes into Pro Tools using a Digidesign Digi 001. He'll do a lot of re-arranging of music after recording vocals, “and that's one of the greatest things about having Pro Tools,” he says. “I lay vocals down and then go back and really pick apart the track. It's a beautiful thing if you want to take one snare out at one spot. It's just really easy.” El-P digs the automation of both Pro Tools and his main mixing board, a Mackie Digital 8-Bus. He can't imagine going back to the days before automation. “For years I used analog boards,” he recalls. “I remember the hell of having to mix an entire song where the process was like some kind of modern-dance performance! For four minutes straight you have to twist knobs, do punches, do drops and fader rides — and if you screw one thing up you have to do that shit again.” Processing the recorded vocals is one of the trickiest aspects of production. A lot of people assume that vocals have to be compressed, but El-P says he's against compression. “Hip-hop music is not meant to be squashed down,” he says. “It's just not a good sound for me. It doesn't have any edge. I like having the imperfections involved in the whole picture.” EI-P does recommend using the best mic preamp you can afford and dialing in a good parametric EQ for vocals. If you have that, he suggests, you won't need much compression. “It's okay to compress vocals here and there to give it a space that you can't get from just a parametric EQ,” he concedes. “My big objection is really when it comes down to compressing drums and compressing bass. The reason so many hip-hop records sound the same is that everyone is using the same drum machine, and every engineer just squashes the shit out of everything.” “A lot of times I'm trying to re-create a feel of a record that I love, something from my childhood. It's like trying to re-create the same feelings that got me in love with the music in the first place, and making it my own.” — El-P Full Sory: http://remixmag.com/mag/remix_bomb_tracks_hiphop/ __________________ FREE MP3s \| DrDrt.com Electrocrunk, DRT, DIY and Bass MP3s for DOWNLOAD MySpace: www.myspace.com/shanefontane http://www.stopglobalwarming.org

20th September 2006, 08:35 PM	#2
azwun25 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Roman Empire State Posts: 1,430	yeah i read this awhile back..i love Def Jux records..its funny because he says he's against compression but the Def Jux records sound loaded with heavy comp. either way they're putting out dope shit. __________________ "If the opposite of pro is a con then look beyond this The opposite of congress must be progress" ~Cage Grand Ol' Party Crash

20th September 2006, 08:54 PM	#3
t.dizzle Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Location: Purgatory Posts: 916	I don't know who this guy is, but to me it sounds like he's talkin' outta his ass. “It's unnatural for an MC to just stand in front of a microphone and spit his shit. Hold the mic in your hand, move around, do what you need to do.” Unnatural? Rap concerts suck badly - and the main reason is because the vocals are all over the place. “Hip-hop music is not meant to be squashed down” According to who? If you know what you're doing with a compressor, things sound BIGGER. "The reason so many hip-hop records sound the same is that everyone is using the same drum machine, and every engineer just squashes the shit out of everything." Nonsense. __________________ Clearly def

21st September 2006, 05:48 AM	#15
ShaneFontane Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: DRTY JRZY Posts: 544	Another example of lo-fi love vs high fi product is.... drum roll... GUESS WHO'S BACK - 50 CENT damnnnnnnn.... still my favorite album. Sure, some of the mixes don't sound as great as the new albums but I won't even buy the new shit cause it's losing more meaning as each album becomes more focused on shiny things, fast cars, million dollar gear, etc... Dude, comeon... CORNER BODEGA kills it __________________ FREE MP3s \| DrDrt.com Electrocrunk, DRT, DIY and Bass MP3s for DOWNLOAD MySpace: www.myspace.com/shanefontane http://www.stopglobalwarming.org

22nd September 2006, 03:26 PM	#18
Blues Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 57	I think yall are missing the bigger picture here....and i'm laughing over here cuz... Def Jux label grossed 3 million dollars as a label in 2004..which is exceptional for a hiphop indie.. ..and they did with their music recorded on a ****in Mackie and the ever-so-shitty Digi-01... WOW. ps..Cold Vein was a disgustngly ill album...sounds like a subway wreck in the blackest corner of Dante's EZ Bake.....Hank Shocklee mustve jizzed his Depends when he heard that album.. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/odysseydeep

21st September 2006, 03:27 AM	#8
e-cue Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 3,883	I'm a Def Jux fan, specifically the earlier Aesop Rock stuff, but I don't think that label capable of putting out good sounding records. DIY indie hip hop is great and all, but I'd sure like to hear one good SOUNDING record come out of that camp. When WuTang was lo fi, it's was cool. Just seems kinda ametuerish and ignorant (I once read an article where he was claiming warmth with digital tape because it was to tape and not daw) with Def Jux.

21st September 2006, 05:38 PM	#16
Methlab Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 2,421	That Cannibal Ox album has some of the most creative beats I have ever heard.

22nd September 2006, 04:54 PM	#19
brian_delizza Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: CA Posts: 498	Doesn't he rhyme about compressors on the album? Oh well. Def jux is ILL. Period. __________________ www.indopendence.com www.briandelizza.com www.myspace.com/optymaemcee www.myspace.com/wastelandsmusic

14th October 2006, 01:08 AM	#21
verseper verse Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 7	any ideas that def jux is a great label and el-p is a genius because of his and the labels great work with aesop rock is grossly underestimating the mush record labels (and dose one's) influence on float. Labor days was largely produced, at the very least mentally, by the time rock signed with def jux.. i assume that his recent move to s.f. home of mush might indicate that he is leavig def jux, which for me would be a sign that he will make another great album.

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