Learning what the pros do to get "that sound".

[Big 3rd]

As many of you know, I signed onto this site as a fairly novice engineer.
Since then, I've started a lot of threads, done a lot of research, read lots of books, done tons of referencing to albums that have been mixed well, and picked a lot of your brains...and I learned a bunch from all of these things. But I finally understand what many of you have said many times.

"You must get down there and do the work yourself. See for yourself." I've mixed and remixed many many times. And I'm getting closer and closer to the point of feeling happy with my results. I'm extremely hard to please, especially when it comes to my own music...but I'm finally getting there.

Now I say all this because I've ran upon a technique that I know some of you know about and haven't talked about. But I only found this out through tapping away at the art of mixing.

The technique has finally placed my main vocals in pocket the way the pros get them. And the vocal is hella present, extremely focused, and still sparkles.

What I did was: I threw an eq on the vocals FIRST. Put on a low shelf pass around 300hz. Drop that about 5-6 db. Then, I put a high shelf pass on around the 5k area. Drop that about 1db. Now I have a slight hump in the meat and potatoes of the vocal (800hz-4k). This was the key.

Next, I put a compressor on the vocal with a reduction of about 1-3 db. This contained the irritating 4k area, made the rest of the mids more present and focused BUT most of all....it did not destroy the those precious highs that gives the vocal its character, sparkle, and clarity. It only compressed the body of the vocal.

Now I know many of you probably know this technique already and just didn't mention it for whatever reason. But this sh*t is groundbreaking for me. I'm kinda mad now at some of you. You didn't tell me sooner.

But anyway, for those of you that didn't know of this technique, please try it out for yourself. It is a great great thing.

What are some of those techniques you discovered that had you saying, "OOOOH, that's how those f*ckers did that"?

Spill those guts.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

As many of you know, I signed onto this site as a fairly novice engineer.
Since then, I've started a lot of threads, done a lot of research, read lots of books, done tons of referencing to albums that have been mixed well, and picked a lot of your brains...and I learned a bunch from all of these things. But I finally understand what many of you have said many times.

"You must get down there and do the work yourself. See for yourself." I've mixed and remixed many many times. And I'm getting closer and closer to the point of feeling happy with my results. I'm extremely hard to please, especially when it comes to my own music...but I'm finally getting there.

Now I say all this because I've ran upon a technique that I know some of you know about and haven't talked about. But I only found this out through tapping away at the art of mixing.

The technique has finally placed my main vocals in pocket the way the pros get them. And the vocal is hella present, extremely focused, and still sparkles.

What I did was: I threw an eq on the vocals FIRST. Put on a low shelf pass around 300hz. Drop that about 5-6 db. Then, I put a high shelf pass on around the 5k area. Drop that about 1db. Now I have a slight hump in the meat and potatoes of the vocal (800hz-4k). This was the key.

Next, I put a compressor on the vocal with a reduction of about 1-3 db. This contained the irritating 4k area, made the rest of the mids more present and focused BUT most of all....it did not destroy the those precious highs that gives the vocal its character, sparkle, and clarity. It only compressed the body of the vocal.

Now I know many of you probably know this technique already and just didn't mention it for whatever reason. But this sh*t is groundbreaking for me. I'm kinda mad now at some of you. You didn't tell me sooner.

But anyway, for those of you that didn't know of this technique, please try it out for yourself. It is a great great thing.

What are some those techniques that you do that had you saying, "OOOOH, that's how those f*ckers did that"?

Spill those guts.

This may work well for your mic/ vocalist combo, but this probably won't work very well on other singers or with microphones other than what you were using. With the right mic, I don't even have to touch the EQ.

[Samplecraze]

Agreed.

That's a lot of processing for one set of vocals.

Too much processing introduces artifacts like phase (particularly when usinbg EQ) etc..

Try to get the source as clean and as dynamic as possible and the rest should take care of itself.

Rolling off the off freq is ok but not when you have to narrow band the signal.

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

This may work well for your mic/ vocalist combo, but this probably won't work very well on other singers or with microphones other than what you were using. With the right mic, I don't even have to touch the EQ.

Well a lot of the time, I don't like the early reflections of my booth so I mic fairly close to the mic, which ends up giving me more low end in my vocal. This is why on this particular project I slap an eq on first.

But don't most engineers do a little eqing and through a little compression on vocals?

[slickscrilla]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

Well a lot of the time, I don't like the early reflections of my booth so I mic fairly close to the mic, which ends up giving me more low end in my vocal. This is why on this particular project I slap an eq on first.

But don't most engineers do a little eqing and through a little compression on vocals?

it sounds like you have to mutch "proximity"...if you dont have a omnimic....get one...

[Harley-OIART]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

Well a lot of the time, I don't like the early reflections of my booth so I mic fairly close to the mic, which ends up giving me more low end in my vocal. This is why on this particular project I slap an eq on first.

Just a suggestion. Deal with the reflections first, no point having a vocal booth if you don't like the way it sounds. I would personally never record vox with heavy proximity effect, then try and EQ it out, if I did not have to in the first place.

Heck, why not try the shower or some other room if you have limited options? All that matters is having the best available mic / preamp / comp / recording medium, in front of the best available source (Singer), in the best possible environment for that source (big live drums need a big live room right?). FWIW I have had great results and very happy clients who actually got a kick out of singing in the bathroom. If you can't afford room treatment, get creative!

But don't most engineers do a little eqing and through a little compression on vocals?

Yes but only if it needs it, and the frequencies, effected bandwidth, and amount of boost or cut is different for every situation. There is no sure fire trick for every vocal track in a mix. If there is some golden rule someone please let me know!

Regards Man,
Scott

[NesNeedsGear]

i kinda do the same thing...all depending on the amount of low end in the song already.

if the song lacks balls under 250hz, then I won't roll the vocal off so high. This lets the vox have a little more meat.
If all the space under 250hz is taken by kicks, bass, and synths...then I'll set the HP filter up to 100-110hz, and proceed to do a wide-Q dip at the mud area (240-260hz).

Chinese mics sometimes have the sibilance issue (my MXLv69 isn't so bad), so if I hear any, i'll high-shelf EQ maybe -.5db and then run it through the compressor.

of course it's different with every song, every vox..etc... BUT, the principle stays the same. EQ vox away from low end, low mid mud, high-mid instruments, and sibilant highs...

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by slickscrilla

it sounds like you have to mutch "proximity"...if you dont have a omnimic....get one...

I do have a u87. So I'm good.

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by Harley-OIART

Just a suggestion. Deal with the reflections first, no point having a vocal booth if you don't like the way it sounds. I would personally never record vox with heavy proximity effect, then try and EQ it out, if I did not have to in the first place.

Heck, why not try the shower or some other room if you have limited options? All that matters is having the best available mic / preamp / comp / recording medium, in front of the best available source (Singer), in the best possible environment for that source (big live drums need a big live room right?). FWIW I have had great results and very happy clients who actually got a kick out of singing in the bathroom. If you can't afford room treatment, get creative!

Regards Man,
Scott

I have treatment covering every inch of the booth, but the booth is about 10x12x7. It's fairly spacious and it has that cotton in your ear sound...extremely dead. But for some reason the room's sound still bleeds in the vocal if I allow too much room between the vocalist and the mic.

[t.dizzle]

There are no rules to recording... but there are some things that are definitely gonna limit the quality of what you do. For example, recording with the low pass at 300Hz! Turn that shit off immediately. If you have problems with lfe try using the rolloff on the mic. If your mic doesn't have that feature (you stated that you have a 87 so you're good), then that's what you can use an eq for - but don't dip anything higher than 150Hz. And even then -5db is probably too much! For you, at this point in the game, you should totally just record straight without eq. If your space sounds like ass and you hear it on the tracks, then find the ugly freqs and notch 'em out with the eq. Don't forget - theoretically an eq is supposed to remedy deficiencies in the mic/room.

If you don't like the reflections coming back from your booth into the mic, it's only gonna get a lot worse in omni mode. 9 out of 10 times I record aggressive vocals with the vocalist very close to the mic - usually 1 to 3 inches. Most people's mixes sound wimpy because they don't really know how to control the lows, so they end up avoiding them. But you can't eq frequencies that haven't been recorded.

[Jeffason]

compress and limit to hell ..to that point right before it starts clipping bad :D you MUST get to know your monitors and room too, and how mixes will translate out of them. if high quality reverbs were used on the mix that is great too