Best Method of Sync

[Dor]

What's up people? I was wondering what the consensus on sync is these days. What's the tightest form of sync for transferring mpc and other sequenced instruments to a DAW. I was always under the impression that SMPTE was the tightest since it's pretty much the only one (to my knowledge) that is frame accurate.

How would one go about locking say, Logic, to smpte? I've only used SMPTE with tape so i'm not sure how a computer based setup would work. I'm guessing I don't need to stripe a track in Logic.

Thanks in advance,

D

[rickrock305]

i use MIDI time code preferably

[Peter Project]

Yea, I think you'd have to treat it like a tape machine and drop in a layer of simpte on a track, then send it out a dedicated output.
I sync my MPC to logic with Time code and it's rock solid. It's as if i'm running a plugin. I've heard talk that Timecode, "messes with the MPC clock" but I don't really buy it. It sounds good, so whatever.
Does anybody out there still smpte their MPCs to tape? I was thinking about doing it to my Tascam 1/2" 8 track for my next track for fun.

However... Here's a thaught. If you DID strip a track with time code in a DAW. Could you in theory cut and paste the time code around to rearrage the track? Somehow It seems like you'd be begging for problems, but it might be sort of fun.

[azwun25]

I lock up MPC's usually with MMC and it is solid. i guess either way (MTC or MMC) is ok.

[octatonic]

It totally depends on what you are syncing up.

The point of using an MPC is (aside form the interface) in the tightness of the box itself.
If you slave it to Logic then you've just removed the reason for using the MPC.
I simply drop it into Logic and manually line it up.
If the device has internal drift (Korgs Electribe units can drift uo to 60 samples each way... I am not kidding) then I will slave the device to Logic.
It is a case of path of least resistance here.

As far as syncing to tape then SMPTE is the standard of which there are 3 main types- LTC is widely used for locking tape machines.

VITC and Burnt In tend to be used a lot when locking to video. Emagic's unitor 8 supports VITC- not sure about burn it. There is another SMPTE format but I annot remember it.

Frame accurate?
Well MTC works by sending 8 sysex strings in quarter frames - so it is a 2 frame process- but it works pretty well and works over a midi cable.

If you want to lock your MPC to Logic then you could use either I guess.
The drift of MTC is less likely to happen if you dedicate a midi port to it.
From memory the MPC's required a SMPTE expansion board... true?

JR

JR

I use midi clocks with MMC turned on.

I have no groove problems over here.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by richmondjames

It totally depends on what you are syncing up.

The point of using an MPC is (aside form the interface) in the tightness of the box itself.
If you slave it to Logic then you've just removed the reason for using the MPC.
I simply drop it into Logic and manually line it up.
If the device has internal drift (Korgs Electribe units can drift uo to 60 samples each way... I am not kidding) then I will slave the device to Logic.
It is a case of path of least resistance here.

As far as syncing to tape then SMPTE is the standard of which there are 3 main types- LTC is widely used for locking tape machines.

VITC and Burnt In tend to be used a lot when locking to video. Emagic's unitor 8 supports VITC- not sure about burn it. There is another SMPTE format but I annot remember it.

Frame accurate?
Well MTC works by sending 8 sysex strings in quarter frames - so it is a 2 frame process- but it works pretty well and works over a midi cable.

If you want to lock your MPC to Logic then you could use either I guess.
The drift of MTC is less likely to happen if you dedicate a midi port to it.
From memory the MPC's required a SMPTE expansion board... true?

JR

JR

Thanks for the info. I just got a maxed out 60II off ebay for $500 and was attempting to use the built in SMPTE interface to lock logic to the mpc. Logic recognized the frame rate fed via my motu express xt but it wouldn't trigger the transport.

Can logic read smpte in real time like MTC or beat clock or does it need to be striped? Better yet, should I just use MTC and give up on smpte?

D

[HDGuru]

If you want the most solid lock, and to avoid timing issues you should run the MPC as a slave to Logic via smpte. MPC's have always had timing issues with beat clock, and MTC, and while you may not notice it right off, chasing anything other than smpte will cause minute timing shifts in your MPC's output.

Logic = Master
MPC = Slave via smpte. MTC being second best.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by Dor

Better yet, should I just use MTC and give up on smpte?

D

I think for what you want you should use MTC.
This isn't 1992- hardware generally works a lot better these days- MTC will be fine.

Don't lock Logic to the MPC- Logic should be the master.

[Tibbon]

I think the tightest it SMPTE using LTC... that's what i use for tape decks anyway when i can.

[electric]

cant say for mpc 60 as i dont have one. not sure what the sync options are for it. for mpc 2000/xl best results are MTC with mpc as the master (important) and daw as the slave. you will have to tinker with your daw to get it to accept incoming MTC.recording MPC's works best if you can do it in one pass. the timing is never exactly the same on successive passes (at least the way the daw lines up the incoming audio to previous pass. try it you'll see what i mean. there is enough drift/jitter on the clock in the mpc that the same track on a different take will possibly be off by a tiny bit or it might be the uncertainty in the way the daw locks to MTC not sure which or both)

i have 2 mpc's and s950 so i can always do everything in one pass with 16 or 24 outs (one MPC drives the other MPC/s950 with midi) . if you can only make it work on multiple passes than make sure to send the most timing critical stems on the first pass. (usually drums and percussive lead arrangements that key off the drums). you may need to slightly adjust things from successive passes. if you are not picky at timing than there will be no problem whatsoever. it will sound fine to you.

electric

[NonSpecific]

Here's a stupid question...but necessary for me to know since I have never used midi or even attempted...

How do you get the audio from the MPC or whatever you're are using into the DAW?

I use pro tools le7 with the MBox2 and have done some reading on this subject but don't quite understand the signal chain involved.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by NonSpecific

Here's a stupid question...but necessary for me to know since I have never used midi or even attempted...

How do you get the audio from the MPC or whatever you're are using into the DAW?

I use pro tools le7 with the MBox2 and have done some reading on this subject but don't quite understand the signal chain involved.

1/4" cables into your di/pre/soundcard ...

[con?one]

Originally Posted by NonSpecific

Here's a stupid question...but necessary for me to know since I have never used midi or even attempted...

How do you get the audio from the MPC or whatever you're are using into the DAW?

I use pro tools le7 with the MBox2 and have done some reading on this subject but don't quite understand the signal chain involved.

um... are you trying to send audio through MIDI?

[NonSpecific]

Originally Posted by con?one

um... are you trying to send audio through MIDI?

hahahaha....I'm not that new to midi....

...I figured 1/4 from the MPC to the interface would do it...but wasn't a hundred percent sure....peace.