room less kick drum

[Neodym]

this is about what mixing is about? no offense but feel free to show me how you make kick sample recorded in room sound like if it was recorded in anechoic chamber,how do you remove the crap bouncing of the walls from the direct sound of kick drum

[Zachariah]

For a dead sound, look into transient designers. This will accent the transients as opposed to the whole sound. It wont completely get rid of room tone but in a mix it will make it seem like its not there.

To fake an outdoor sound you need to understand reflections. Being outdoors, there are so many surfaces that could reflect sound but there could also be very little for the sound to reflect. Look into delays. Specifically slapbacks echos and out of time delays.

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[Neodym]

Originally Posted by Zachariah

For a dead sound, look into transient designers. This will accent the transients as opposed to the whole sound. It wont completely get rid of room tone but in a mix it will make it seem like its not there.

To fake an outdoor sound you need to understand reflections. Being outdoors, there are so many surfaces that could reflect sound but there could also be very little for the sound to reflect. Look into delays. Specifically slapbacks echos and out of time delays.

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ofcourse I can remove it by shortening the sound so it end before the reflections but I want the kick sound that is after the reflections arive

I want pure drumsound,no room mud.... did you ever heard about some kick drum being recorded in anechoic chamber?

[Bender412]

Originally Posted by Neodym

...it creates phase cancel fest 2012...

When was that? I wanted to Tivo it.

[antstudio]

I use EZDrummer and I did not like the room sound in the overhead mics or the bleed sounds at all, they created a lot of phasing issues and just added a lot of mush into my mixes. So I muted the overheads and turned off the bleed option. What was left were pretty dry sounds. I then created my own simulated room/bleed mics using aux channels and reverbs. Works pretty well, especially as I can feed just a little bass, guitars and vocals into the same room/bleed auxes which really helps to gel the mix and create a sense of having recorded in a real space.

..ant

[Neodym]

Originally Posted by Bender412

When was that? I wanted to Tivo it.

lol check out NI Studio drummer... thats where this fest is :D

if you want to hear horrible phasing problems around 40-50 hz gotta have the Studio drummer

[Neodym]

Originally Posted by antstudio

I use EZDrummer and I did not like the room sound in the overhead mics or the bleed sounds at all, they created a lot of phasing issues and just added a lot of mush into my mixes. So I muted the overheads and turned off the bleed option. What was left were pretty dry sounds. I then created my own simulated room/bleed mics using aux channels and reverbs. Works pretty well, especially as I can feed just a little bass, guitars and vocals into the same room/bleed auxes which really helps to gel the mix and create a sense of having recorded in a real space.

..ant

I have it too and did the same thing... but I dont like the sound it have,I wonder if theres some reflection less kicks I would like

[DAH]

Originally Posted by Neodym

I have it too and did the same thing... but I dont like the sound it have,I wonder if theres some reflection less kicks I would like

Check 70' records - funk and disco, there is a lot of relatively dry kicks on them.

[jdsowa]

I've used NI Abbey Road 60s drums and it's simply not suitable for rap music. But if I was forced to use it, I would turn the room sound and overhead mics all the way down, use saturation, transient shaping, and excessive EQ on the close kick mic.

I've recorded drums out on my back deck a few times. I'll try to upload them to Soundcloud later. You get a pretty full frequency response. Though it feels unnatural--especially the treble/metallic sound coming from the snare--because the ear is used to hearing recordings with more high freq absorption. What you probably want is something recorded in a typical 70s style drum booth. If you listen to the multitracks of Stevie "Superstition" or Queen "Killer Queen" there really isn't any room ambience in the overhead mics--they just sound like 'smaller' versions of the close mics.

[Ward Boss]

If you're inclined to record an actual kick drum, a dynamic mic like a Shure Beta 52 or the usual D112 inside the drum aimed at the beater is a good starting point for a dead sound like you're describing. Those types of mics reject room sound and can't 'hear' much room anyway inside the drum.

[Neodym]

thanks for great post all I apriciate it alot

[Neodym]

Originally Posted by Ward Boss

If you're inclined to record an actual kick drum, a dynamic mic like a Shure Beta 52 or the usual D112 inside the drum aimed at the beater is a good starting point for a dead sound like you're describing. Those types of mics reject room sound and can't 'hear' much room anyway inside the drum.

explain to my why you choose these type of mics?

[yosemitesam]

You might be overthinking this... Do you enjoy more than about 3 albums every decade? If not then you should go to these lengths, but if you generally like a good amount of at least one sub-genre of rap/hip hop, very little of it is made with super-secret kick samples that aren't pretty widely available (no anechoic chambers required). Remember it doesn't have to sound perfect soloed, it has to sound great in the mix. Some of the qualities of a sample that you're worried about may be literally inaudible in the context of a mix. And some things that make a kick sound better soloed may make your mix actually sound worse.

I'm not saying you aren't necessarily already aware of that. Just contributing a reminder to whoever could be reading this thread and might need one.

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[Neodym]

Originally Posted by yosemitesam

You might be overthinking this... Do you enjoy more than about 3 albums every decade? If not then you should go to these lengths, but if you generally like a good amount of at least one sub-genre of rap/hip hop, very little of it is made with super-secret kick samples that aren't pretty widely available (no anechoic chambers required). Remember it doesn't have to sound perfect soloed, it has to sound great in the mix. Some of the qualities of a sample that you're worried about may be literally inaudible in the context of a mix. And some things that make a kick sound better soloed may make your mix actually sound worse.

I'm not saying you aren't necessarily already aware of that. Just contributing a reminder to whoever could be reading this thread and might need one.

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if only I got one euro everytime someone tells I am overthinking production....

theres good,and theres best,one way is easier than other,hiding problems in mix aint my way to roll

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Neodym

if only I got one euro everytime someone tells I am overthinking production....

There may be a reason for this.

Originally Posted by Neodym

theres good,and theres best,one way is easier than other,hiding problems in mix aint my way to roll

To put the point another way - think of your 5 favourite tracks, or your favourite kick sounds on a track.

I'd be willing to bet NONE of them was recorded in an anechoic chamber or outdoors. Not that this hasn't ever happened, but that it's likely to be incredibly rare. Bloody difficult to record anything large in size in an anechoic chamber anyway - the floor is an acoustically transparent net, with a small pillar to place eg the speaker being measured on it.

Chances are, if you DID find a kick recorded like you say, you may not like it either.

It's not a question of "hiding" problems in the mix, it's a question of not worrying what things sound like in solo, and only analysing them in the context of the complete mix. If you have a problem that bugs you in the final mix - of course you should do something about it.

If it's something that's only audible in solo - don't worry about it. Mixes aren't meant to sound good when stems are soloed.

[tdot]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

If it's something that's only audible in solo - don't worry about it. Mixes aren't meant to sound good when stems are soloed.

That's actually IMO one of the hardest things to wrap your head around - I still have problems with it. Usually if you make everything sound dope as hell soloed, its going to sound shitty as **** when you put it all together.
You can't have maximum detail in all frequencies in all tracks at all times - it just doesn't work. Mixing is about making everything sound good together as a whole, not individually. As much as I know this, putting it into practice is much more difficult...

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by tdot

That's actually IMO one of the hardest things to wrap your head around - I still have problems with it. Usually if you make everything sound dope as hell soloed, its going to sound shitty as **** when you put it all together.
You can't have maximum detail in all frequencies in all tracks at all times - it just doesn't work. Mixing is about making everything sound good together as a whole, not individually. As much as I know this, putting it into practice is much more difficult...

It's not unheard of to have the same source processed differently, one for when it's exposed, and the other for when it's in the mix. Bass for example.

[Azamat Bagatov]

This guy serious? Hip hop is about raw talent, not getting some kick drum to sound like it was recorded on Pluto.

[Jesse381]

It sounds like you want some kind of analog synth or analog drum machine. Where you can shape the sound however you want and it be completely clean and dry, while having total control over the amount of decay. A slim phatty can make great clean bass drums like you want. Then you can sample them into your own sequencer. A minibrute probably can too with its suboscillator.

Instead of buying sample packs, an analog synth would probably be a better invrestment as you'll have unlimited drums all made exactly how you want, plus a great synth for basses and leads and fx and stuff

[issofunky]

two things:

ONE: what you consider "good" and what I consider "good" are likely not the same thing
So, it's a hard answer to give> Suffice to say you SHOULD have more then 1Million opitions what with file sharing on the internet and youtube and all the cd's in your rack.

JUST SAMPLE what you have already and like.

NIN Closer has a Reverse Kick in the foundation track that was Iggy Pop's Night Clubbing.
I love both those tracks and did LONG before I knew that one sampled the other.....point is a good "sample" is likely right under your nose and you are looking in the wrong place.

TWO: Buy your own kick drum : buy a kick Mic, set it up and tune it......sample it.
try 5 different heads, try tight and loose tuning, try D112 and an Audix D6 and try out
internal mic and external mic....LEARN the kick drum mic techniques that most "textbook" approaches would teach and learn to HEAR the differences between them.

I can tell you this.....When you listen to that BIG ROCK drum sound.
that is NOT one mic in one position....that is all 6-to-20 mic's that
surround the drum set EACH picking up just a little more character of
the room sound: and in the phase between all of those mic's THAT is
where that thick majical sound happens. If you have good ROOM that
is a HUGE part of it....if you track in a bed room, then no amount of mic's will
be very helpful.

[StringBean]

Most any kick drum sample is dry as hell.

If you don't like the ezdrummer room, just mute it. I can tell you, the samples in ezdrummer are top of the line and if you can't get a program that basically records and mixes a good drum set for you to sound decent it ain't the samples.