Attack and release - Compression

[atma]

right, it is about experience. but the best way to get experience is to start practicing actually doing it yourself and relying on your own taste to make decisions. so still i'd say, adjust parameters til they sound best to you especially with compression because it takes a while to acclimate yourself to the sonic nuances involved in envelope shaping to even begin to develop preferences in the matter.

[Stackx]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

I almost always use an 1176 for rap vocals. The waves ones, UA ones work fine too. I set my attack somewhere between 1-3, the release between 6-7 and the input/output to where i'm getting like 10db+ of gain reduction at a ratio of 4 or 8.

Why such a slow attack? Don't you feel like your vocals are still jumpy? Do you use another compressor as well?

[smoke]

Originally Posted by Alxi

I agree and that goes along the lines of what SMOKE said earlier but to know how you want something to sound like is to have experience.

When you don't, you have to start somewhere and gearsluts ain't a bad place to ask.

I guess I was getting at that the best experience is in fact not acheived at Gearslutz, but with practice, exercising the ears, and establishing a basis for judgement. Not someone elses judgement, but your own viewpoint and taste as an artist.

The internet is great for us guys who want to chat and argue methods, but if you are serious... I mean if you LOVE doing this, why would you want to take the shortcut of someone thinking for you? That's what I don't get. I think people are getting lazy with all these plugins and instant internet gratification.

There's always someone out there not on the internet, but in the studio or in his/her bedroom working harder on the craft they love. In this competitive environment (economy), that should scare ya. Stop being insulted, stop being senstive, stop making excuses and get to work!

And I mean that sincerely

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by Stackx

Why such a slow attack? Don't you feel like your vocals are still jumpy? Do you use another compressor as well?

The 1176 is pretty fast regardless, but the vox can feel too squashed if the attack is too fast. Again, i do set the attack for the source, but this is my starting point.

[Stackx]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

The 1176 is pretty fast regardless, but the vox can feel too squashed if the attack is too fast. Again, i do set the attack for the source, but this is my starting point.

Yea I also see that your knocking 10db off which means your threshold much be down there but I'm surprised your not worried about catching transients that much. I usually find my attack around 5-7 on the 1176 and usually another compressor to level it out. Well for hiphop vocals at least.

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by Stackx

Yea I also see that your knocking 10db off which means your threshold much be down there but I'm surprised your not worried about catching transients that much. I usually find my attack around 5-7 on the 1176 and usually another compressor to level it out. Well for hiphop vocals at least.

I'm not sure that 10db on an 1176 is really 10 db
Sometimes I'll take 20db off and they don't sound that squashed. Then again, the comp is never really recovering to 0 which is probably why I can use a slow attack.

[Alxi]

Originally Posted by smoke

I guess I was getting at that the best experience is in fact not acheived at Gearslutz, but with practice, exercising the ears, and establishing a basis for judgement. Not someone elses judgement, but your own viewpoint and taste as an artist.

The internet is great for us guys who want to chat and argue methods, but if you are serious... I mean if you LOVE doing this, why would you want to take the shortcut of someone thinking for you? That's what I don't get. I think people are getting lazy with all these plugins and instant internet gratification.

There's always someone out there not on the internet, but in the studio or in his/her bedroom working harder on the craft they love. In this competitive environment (economy), that should scare ya. Stop being insulted, stop being senstive, stop making excuses and get to work!

And I mean that sincerely

I totally agree with you guys. There is no substitute for practice but
If someone gives you some guide lines and a few tips on what to listen for, don't you think it would make the learning curve easier ??

Really, that ALL i'm saying.

And in that perspective i still don't see how telling someone to use his ears is a useful comment.

[A Fak]

Originally Posted by Halma

I recommend those too.

This is also a good read: Understanding Compression

"... Instead of thinking of a compressor that compresses - think of it as something that changes the shape of a sound. If you start listening for "shape" the mysteries of compression will reveal themselves to you, and fairly quickly. ..."

I like that .

Whats funny is they're both written by the same guy.

[beef]

think envelope - fast - 1176
think level - slow - la2a

[Halma]

Originally Posted by A Fak

Whats funny is they're both written by the same guy.

Yeah I know that but I thought it would be obvious. He started some really great threads on this board and shares a lot of knowledge. I recommend his "Reverb: Tips and Techniques" thread.

[Sampire]

Alxi wins this thread.

[Alxi]

Originally Posted by Sampire

Alxi wins this thread.

[StringBean]

If you want a little punch in the vocals you'd want a slow attack so the compressor isn't hitting the sound immediately. If you want a very controlled, smoother vocal then fast attack will do that. With vox i feel it's less about attack and release and more just the color of the compressor you are using. Ultimately you are likely automating the volume of the vocals anyway so I think of compression as taming the sound and adding color.

[remusjacobs]

thanks guys, Didnt mean to stir up confrontation. I wasnt asking for a vocal preset for compression, just some guidelines to follow. All these different methods are good. It gives me (and hopefully others) a better idea on how to approach compression.
Thanks again

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by remusjacobs

thanks guys, Didnt mean to stir up confrontation. I wasnt asking for a vocal preset for compression, just some guidelines to follow. All these different methods are good. It gives me (and hopefully others) a better idea on how to approach compression.
Thanks again

You didn't stir anything up. You asked a very valid question and unfortunately got some ridiculous responses.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by A Fak

Whats funny is they're both written by the same guy.

Man... that guy must be super smart AND good looking.



I find for rap vocals compression works well with a 1-2-3 punch. Something a little quicker to catch the jumpy peaks, and something slower and smoother just to coast things along and neatly even things out. Then you take all of that, mult it up, and compress the living snot out of the mult (I've actually been digging the Fabfilter C more than my 1176 hardware for this part) - then blend the uber compressed mult back in to where it's not super noticeably, but just gives the voice more weight in the mix.

But it also depends on how the vocal comes in. If the delivery is super steady, or already tracked with compression - that changes the game up a bit.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

I almost always use an 1176 for rap vocals. The waves ones, UA ones work fine too. I set my attack somewhere between 1-3, the release between 6-7 and the input/output to where i'm getting like 10db+ of gain reduction at a ratio of 4 or 8.

Ah - the ten o'clock two o'clock approach. Never fails. I usually lean in a little on the faster than 10'o'clock side, but generally do a little less gain reduction with it. Just out of the red on the vu meter is usually where I like it. I don't know if that applies to the waves one though.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

You didn't stir anything up. You asked a very valid question and unfortunately got some ridiculous responses.

On Gearslutz?? What!?

[teamalkos]

I look for how I want to control the dynamics of my recordings and also the transients. I mean all compressors react differently and also it will determine of how I was rapping. I don't like the attack fast with the release fast as it can get to be pretty pumpy. I normally always have a slower release and fast attack. 4:1 ratio being where I marinate around most of the time.

[teamalkos]

Originally Posted by Storyville

Ah - the ten o'clock two o'clock approach. Never fails. I usually lean in a little on the faster than 10'o'clock side, but generally do a little less gain reduction with it. Just out of the red on the vu meter is usually where I like it. I don't know if that applies to the waves one though.

I got into t a habit of using my ears and not the meter with the gain reduction. I tend to compress to how I like the dynamics and tone is really vibing. My gain reduction will vary depending on this. I almost never look at my gr meters just my ears bruh

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by Storyville

Ah - the ten o'clock two o'clock approach. Never fails. I usually lean in a little on the faster than 10'o'clock side, but generally do a little less gain reduction with it. Just out of the red on the vu meter is usually where I like it. I don't know if that applies to the waves one though.

I always use an 1176! I've gotten to the point where my rap vocal chain is almost always the same. I hit an 1176 (rev B normally but sometimes reissue) pretty damn hard right out of the preamp, but split the output and take a dry signal too. This is always either an SM7 or u89 into a quad 8 or neve style pre. I normally mix a little of the uncompressed vocal into the background and eq some mids out accordingly. Life is easy.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by teamalkos

I got into t a habit of using my ears and not the meter with the gain reduction. I tend to compress to how I like the dynamics and tone is really vibing. My gain reduction will vary depending on this. I almost never look at my gr meters just my ears bruh

Sure. Just noting a tendency.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

I always use an 1176! I've gotten to the point where my rap vocal chain is almost always the same. I hit an 1176 (rev B normally but sometimes reissue) pretty damn hard right out of the preamp, but split the output and take a dry signal too. This is always either an SM7 or u89 into a quad 8 or neve style pre. I normally mix a little of the uncompressed vocal into the background and eq some mids out accordingly. Life is easy.

Ha. Parallel uncompression! I dig it.

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by Storyville

Ha. Parallel uncompression! I dig it.

Lolol! Never thought of it that way.

[Byron Pierce]

Fast rap vocals-
1 option...fast attack, fast release, small ration 1.5, reduction dependent on recording level, may follow with another compressor after the roll off low freq eq
2.option...ration higher 4:1, not so fast attack, still fast release, may follow with another compressor after the roll off low freq eq

Slower vocals will change the attack of the compressor but the everything else stay the same.
Another option is to us LA-2A type of compressor/limiter (no attack or release)