compressed vocal phase cancelation ???

[samuel40]

Got a question I could use some help with. I have started using some outboard compression on my vocals during the mixing. I use the latency comp in my application and both the original vocal track and the one I recorded after going through the compressor match up perfectly.

My only problem now is that the closer the volumes get to each other they begin to phase cancel each other out.

My question is that when this is done is there suppossed to be some delay between the two tracks to keep that from happening or is there some special paning that should be done when you doing what I am doing. Any help would be much appreciated

[No4PCs]

Originally Posted by samuel40

Got a question I could use some help with. I have started using some outboard compression on my vocals during the mixing. I use the latency comp in my application and both the original vocal track and the one I recorded after going through the compressor match up perfectly.

My only problem now is that the closer the volumes get to each other they begin to phase cancel each other out.

My question is that when this is done is there suppossed to be some delay between the two tracks to keep that from happening or is there some special paning that should be done when you doing what I am doing. Any help would be much appreciated

You made the second vocal track singing or electronic cloned? Its the all track double or in some parts of the melody ?

[samuel40]

Originally Posted by No4PCs

You made the second vocal track singing or electronic cloned? Its the all track double or in some parts of the melody ?

the original track is just a male vocal rapping. what i did was send that vocal out of sawstudio and run it through a compressor and routed the vocal back into sawstudio and recorded it so it is the same vocal but with compression.

It is a lead part not a melody.

[H-Rezz]

Somehwere along the line your delay compensation is not working like it should , you should be getting no phasing problems unless the timing isn't exact !

Try making a copy of the file(not a clone) and reverse it's phase and see what happens.....

As a matter of interest why are you not not doing this with a plugin to aux bus ?

[samuel40]

Originally Posted by H-Rezz

Somehwere along the line your delay compensation is not working like it should , you should be getting no phasing problems unless the timing isn't exact !

Try making a copy of the file(not a clone) and reverse it's phase and see what happens.....

As a matter of interest why are you not not doing this with a plugin to aux bus ?

Thanks for the reply H-Rezz the reason is
Because i don't have a plugin that sounds as good as my purple mc 77

[feyshay]

What application are you using and how are you setting up compensation?

[samuel40]

Originally Posted by feyshay

What application are you using and how are you setting up compensation?

I am using saw studio and I am just sending the track the vocal is on out to channel 2 (alone) processing it and bringing it back in.

The delay is handled by inserting the amount of delay in samples into the loopback sample adjustment (automatic) and when I record the track is appears to be sample for sample in line with the original sample.

but as soon as I bring both takes up to equal volume that start to subtract

[heathen]

By going out of the box through an outboard unit you can't compensate the delay for this there will always be a few ms delay which will cause phasing(Comb filtering) What ya gotta do is zoom right in and move the analog comp track back in phase with the original, so find a nice pointy peak and line them both up to the exact sample position of the peaks you are aligning, when you feel they are close hit phase reverse on the original and match thier levels with both faders and they should almost totally dissapear (if not they are still not in phase), this now means both tracks are aligned and in phase, so now turn off the phase reverse on the first channel and you should have both tracks alligned in phase, with a bit of practice this is easy, and only need to be worried about if you are blending this way.

It is very usefull to work this way ,but re alignment is nessecary! I do this all the time.

[robmix]

why mix the two together ? Are you trying to do a parallel compression thing ? Most of the time on vocals you'll only want to hear the compressed track.

[heathen]

True, but parrallel is a usefull tool sometimes.

[samuel40]

Originally Posted by heathen

By going out of the box through an outboard unit you can't compensate the delay for this there will always be a few ms delay which will cause phasing(Comb filtering) What ya gotta do is zoom right in and move the analog comp track back in phase with the original, so find a nice pointy peak and line them both up to the exact sample position of the peaks you are aligning, when you feel they are close hit phase reverse on the original and match thier levels with both faders and they should almost totally dissapear (if not they are still not in phase), this now means both tracks are aligned and in phase, so now turn off the phase reverse on the first channel and you should have both tracks alligned in phase, with a bit of practice this is easy, and only need to be worried about if you are blending this way.

It is very usefull to work this way ,but re alignment is nessecary! I do this all the time.

Thanks Heathen that works perfectly !!!! although both tracks appeared to be in the same position when I looked at it at the sample level it was off !!

sometimes i like to have the feeling of compression and still have a nice full vocal track

[heathen]

Yeah , I agree, glad it worked. Its usually worth the minute or so to re-align and get a nice analog sound.