Basic Music Business Questions I'm Confused on?

[Bender412]

The splits work however the parties involved agree on beforehand. And that includes the copyright holder of the sample(s).

In the absence of a documented agreement, the law would consider all writers equal in the way of authors/publishers. A copyright registration only allows you to list the general contributions of each author, but not specific percentages. The splits would be specified in a separate contract.

BTW, you could try here...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-business/

[The Hydrilla]

1 Seems pretty clear cut. Producer handles all the music (50%) and gets two writers in to write lyrics (25% each)

2. Producer has to deal with sample issues, still 'wrote' all the music (50%) and 1/3 of the lyrics (+16% = 66%) Other two writers get their thirds (16% each).

If everyone was in the studio together and working on the track at once, settling for 33% each would be a diplomatic approach.

qualifictions to answer this question: none

[raffael77]

1. The author goes for the beatcreator. That means all rights go to the writer. Jimmy and Susie get 50-50% deal and the beatcreator get's nothing. (exception if the beat is also written) If it is so all of them get 33%.

2. All of them get 33%. All of them wrote something on the track.

The funny thing is most beatcreatorst don't write their songs, they creating it with a drum machine or today with a Daw. This is the biggest problem when it comes to money.
In the first place beatcreators in hiphop are important to mc's but for the label only the writer is important because they can use any beatcreator.

As a group, make your appointments on paper. This is the second problem. In practice, that often not done and the problems start than often when there appear without the contract for the beatcreator.

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by Synthy08

1. Big Beatmaster makes a dope track and gets Jimmy and Susie to write to it. Jimmy writes the majority of the song, but Susie writes the Hook and bridge.

You can split it however all the parties want. Sometimes politics makes things lopsided or someone has unfair leverage in the situation. That said, assuming there's no politics or leverage, the two most common ways to split it are:

1.
Big Beatmaster = 50% (all the music)
Jimmy = 25% (half the topline)
Susie = 25% (half the topline)

2.
Big Beatmaster = 33 1/3% (one third of the entire song)
Jimmy = 33 1/3% (one third of the entire song)
Susie = 33 1/3% (one third of the entire song)

2. Big Beatmaster finds a dope Al Green sample and makes a beat. Jimmy writes the first verse, Steve writes the second verse, and Big Beatmaster writes the Hook and Outro.

How would the splits and %'s work on this one?

You could again split based on 50% music and 50% topline like in #1 above. In this case BB would get more than half. Or your could again split everything equally. The wild card is the sample and that publisher is going to want a percentage. Some folks will take that out of the share(s) of whoever wrote the music (which, if the sample's publisher wants 50%, the writer of the music could wind up with nothing). Other people might take the approach that it comes equally out of everyone's shares.

This is why it's important to discuss these things up front. For example, if you write an entire beat and then go ask Jimmy and Susie to topline it, you might want to state up front that you get 50% of the publishing and they can split the rest however they want. That way Jimmy and Susie don't waste their time if they are only interested in an even three way split. Sometimes it's difficult to discuss stuff up front, but you still have another shot to do so and avoid total chaos by discussing it before the record is recorded by whoever the artist might wind up being. After the artist records it for a label, then it often involves fights between lawyers and that usually isn't a happy place to be - especially if you don't have a lot of money to pay a lawyer.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by Synthy08

1. Big Beatmaster makes a dope track and gets Jimmy and Susie to write to it. Jimmy writes the majority of the song, but Susie writes the Hook and bridge.

How would the splits and %'s work on this one?


2. Big Beatmaster finds a dope Al Green sample and makes a beat. Jimmy writes the first verse, Steve writes the second verse, and Big Beatmaster writes the Hook and Outro.

How would the splits and %'s work on this one?

What Chris said. But negotiations usually go pretty indepth. If I was Suzie in example 1, I'd probably be arguing for more than 50%. I don't care how great the verses are - the hook generally brings the selling power, AND I wrote the bridge too.

For 2., if I was Big Beatmaster, I'd be arguing for all of the music, and 50% of the lyrics or more. Again, hook has the selling power. Jimmy and Steve can split the rest 50-50.

[myflashstore]

If Jimmy is a rapper/Producer then...

1. Music - Jimmy 50% for writing the instrumental. Susie 50% for writing the hook and bridge melody - the hook is a major part of the song.
Words - Jimmy 70% Susie 30%

2. Unless you can clear the sample - then you won't be able to use the track anyway. Clearance may involve the Publishers wanted a large share of the publishing so you may end up sharing 50% or less between all three parties.

[Synthy08]

What if the beatmaker sells the song to a local artist for a flat fee. Say $400. So now jimmy and susie have to hope that that artist catches enough momentum to generate a decent back-end payment?

[M2E]

Originally Posted by Synthy08

1. Big Beatmaster makes a dope track and gets Jimmy and Susie to write to it. Jimmy writes the majority of the song, but Susie writes the Hook and bridge.

How would the splits and %'s work on this one?


2. Big Beatmaster finds a dope Al Green sample and makes a beat. Jimmy writes the first verse, Steve writes the second verse, and Big Beatmaster writes the Hook and Outro.

How would the splits and %'s work on this one?

Hey Synthy08,

Really good questions as I see this on a daily.
When going into sessions with writers/producers, it's always good to talk about splits before hand. Though it never seems like a good time to do so, as you don't want to mess up the vibe or it may seem weird to strike up the conversation of splits but, if you never worked with someone, it's best to get that out the way before going forth.
I've had a few cases where this bit me first hand for not "taking care of business" before writing a song. The song get's placed and next thing I know, my publisher (Universal Music Group) calls me saying, "Hey, did you agree on a split of blah blah blah?)" and I'm like in shock that they (The Artist or Manager which is usually the case) is trying to get more than deserved.
Doesn't matter if your small time or big time, take care of this ASAP either before hand or after the song is done before everyone leaves.
If your building relationships, this is always the best approach in keeping good healthy connections.

As far as your question, a couple people have answered it.
"The Hydrilla - which is one way of doing it"
"chris carter - which is another way"

If Susie is a known writer, it may go a different way. You may have to do a 33 1/3 splits across the board as I think Chris mentioned.

Samples are a pain big time. That varies and can be a headache for the Record Company and the writer of the music as that will come out of his portion unless he has a company/manager fighting for him and trying to get all parties to come off of their side of the publishing.

To your new question, yes, Susie and Jimmy would have to register the song and their splits of such song with ASCAP/BMI if they do not have a publishing company handling their side already but only, if the song is getting ready to be released.

I hope this helps.

Marc

[Synthy08]

Originally Posted by M2E

Hey Synthy08,

Really good questions as I see this on a daily.
When going into sessions with writers/producers, it's always good to talk about splits before hand. Though it never seems like a good time to do so, as you don't want to mess up the vibe or it may seem weird to strike up the conversation of splits but, if you never worked with someone, it's best to get that out the way before going forth.
I've had a few cases where this bit me first hand for not "taking care of business" before writing a song. The song get's placed and next thing I know, my publisher (Universal Music Group) calls me saying, "Hey, did you agree on a split of blah blah blah?)" and I'm like in shock that they (The Artist or Manager which is usually the case) is trying to get more than deserved.
Doesn't matter if your small time or big time, take care of this ASAP either before hand or after the song is done before everyone leaves.
If your building relationships, this is always the best approach in keeping good healthy connections.

As far as your question, a couple people have answered it.
"The Hydrilla - which is one way of doing it"
"chris carter - which is another way"

If Susie is a known writer, it may go a different way. You may have to do a 33 1/3 splits across the board as I think Chris mentioned.

Samples are a pain big time. That varies and can be a headache for the Record Company and the writer of the music as that will come out of his portion unless he has a company/manager fighting for him and trying to get all parties to come off of their side of the publishing.

To your new question, yes, Susie and Jimmy would have to register the song and their splits of such song with ASCAP/BMI if they do not have a publishing company handling their side already but only, if the song is getting ready to be released.

I hope this helps.

Marc

[Synthy08]

So how does payment for the songwriter work in this age of free mixtapes/EP's? The writer has to work for free in hopes that one of the songs gets placed eventually? The producer tends to get paid some type of fee for the song, but how does the songwriter get paid on the front end? Especially with local artists.

[Synthy08]

Originally Posted by Synthy08

So how does payment for the songwriter work in this age of free mixtapes/EP's? The writer has to work for free in hopes that one of the songs gets placed eventually? The producer tends to get paid some type of fee for the song, but how does the songwriter get paid on the front end? Especially with local artists.

^^^^^ Anyone????

[Synthy08]

Originally Posted by Synthy08

So how does payment for the songwriter work in this age of free mixtapes/EP's? The writer has to work for free in hopes that one of the songs gets placed eventually? The producer tends to get paid some type of fee for the song, but how does the songwriter get paid on the front end? Especially with local artists.

Originally Posted by Synthy08

^^^^^ Anyone????

Bump


Would really like an answer to this one guys. Anyone?

[Azamat Bagatov]

The artist can do shows in the local scene and get paid, or sell bootleg CDs or put their music for sale on itunes or whatever.If the producer just sells a beat to an artist, then it's up to that artist to get paid. Contracts are there to outline the money situation when it becomes a money situation.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Synthy08

So how does payment for the songwriter work in this age of free mixtapes/EP's? The writer has to work for free in hopes that one of the songs gets placed eventually? The producer tends to get paid some type of fee for the song, but how does the songwriter get paid on the front end? Especially with local artists.

No back end payment from local artists; get what you can upfront.

One could argue that financially, it doesn't "work" at all.