Do I really need a submix track?

[Mr. June]

A submix is usually used to add impact/color/etc. to the existing drums. Not sure about the "extra glue" you're talking about; usually "glue" refers to the entire mix, and sometimes is accomplished by using a compressor on the master fader. So, with the usual "there are no rules" disclaimer, I'd say no you don't need a submix for "glue". Good luck!

[kevgees]

Originally Posted by Mr. June

A submix is usually used to add impact/color/etc. to the existing drums. Not sure about the "extra glue" you're talking about; usually "glue" refers to the entire mix, and sometimes is accomplished by using a compressor on the master fader. So, with the usual "there are no rules" disclaimer, I'd say no you don't need a submix for "glue". Good luck!

Thanks. I was a bit confused

[Trill Trax]

Originally Posted by kevgees

Do I really need a submix track to run my drum bus, snare bus, hat bus, etc to after they are all mixed to give them some extra glue or can I just use the master fader?

It sounds like you've got to much going on. A Bus for every track? No. I'd have one DRUM bus that holds the kick, snare, hats and cymbals and overheads. Then you can apply a form of compression on that bus/aux track for "glue."

If you put this on the master then it will effect the entire track and all the contents within it.

[CJ Mastering]

Originally Posted by kevgees

Do I really need a submix track to run my drum bus, snare bus, hat bus, etc to after they are all mixed to give them some extra glue or can I just use the master fader?

No, you dont. If you get the sound you want without it, then you do not need it.

[kevgees]

Originally Posted by Trill Trax

It sounds like you've got to much going on. A Bus for every track? No. I'd have one DRUM bus that holds the kick, snare, hats and cymbals and overheads. Then you can apply a form of compression on that bus/aux track for "glue."

If you put this on the master then it will effect the entire track and all the contents within it.

Really? I don't need a bus for every track?

[Stackx]

No. Does it help? To me it does.. But that's my forte.

[DirtyMan]

If your bussing each drum to its own bus for no reason thats pointless. Things should be done for a reason to get a specific result. ie you want a few drums to be processed together for glue or flavor or save cpu or to use a single fader/mute/solo for multiple instruments.
If your bussing each drum to it's own bus thats more than likely pointless

[kevgees]

Originally Posted by DirtyMan

If your bussing each drum to its own bus for no reason thats pointless. Things should be done for a reason to get a specific result. ie you want a few drums to be processed together for glue or flavor or save cpu or to use a single fader/mute/solo for multiple instruments.
If your bussing each drum to it's own bus thats more than likely pointless

That what I do. I send 2 separate kicks to 1 drum bus, 2 separate snares to 1 snare bus etc, same for hats and samples

[knobsmcgee]

no.

[SeriousPancakes]

You can have multi-outs for each hit so you can EQ the kick separately from the whole mix. And to answer the initial question, to add 'glue', EQ it right and parallel compress or whatever you need to do

[DirtyMan]

multiple kicks to a kick bus and snares to a snare bus can make sense but its dependent again on the intended goal

[Trill Trax]

Originally Posted by kevgees

Really? I don't need a bus for every track?

You need what you feel you need. Each of us would handle the mix in a different manner I'm sure. I would not create 4-5 seperate Aux/bus channels for kicks, snares, overheads, etc. Unless maybe I had 5 kicks, 6 snares etc all at once. Even then, there would be no need for that many busses.

[3rd Degree]

I am finding myself using busses less and less myself. I would say drums are where I find myself using them the least. For me, I find I can add character but I loose sight of more simple things, like balance, which is way more important to me. I also find myself getting lazy and using my bus fader as a short cut which usually ends up as something that eats my time. It's something I learned very early on, probably too early, so I did it by habit, now I am learning to mix without it and I make better decisions.

There is no truly negative thing I can come up with bussing/submixing/grouping but that's not to say you can't develop reasons it may not work for you. My reasoning is a combination of getting lazy at the end of the mix and spending too much time one place, not enough elsewhere, and thus not seeing the bigger picture as well. Those are obviously not inherent disadvantages of doing it like that, but it's a disadvantage to me. That said, I may say the opposite in a few years. Which means...like most things in mixing, do what works for you and continually expand/improve.

[Zachariah]

Dont use it as a crutch but use it. Its meant to be a finalizing thing. Use your track faders to get everything perfect and then use your submixes only if you need to.

The way you are using them for your kick is fine. If you are only working with one kick sound then I wouldnt recommend bussing to its own submix. In the same respect, if you arent applying fx to the two, you could just group them...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk

[kevgees]

Originally Posted by Zachariah

Dont use it as a crutch but use it. Its meant to be a finalizing thing. Use your track faders to get everything perfect and then use your submixes only if you need to.

The way you are using them for your kick is fine. If you are only working with one kick sound then I wouldnt recommend bussing to its own submix. In the same respect, if you arent applying fx to the two, you could just group them...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk

I mix the kicks individually then I send them to the kick bus for extra compression, eq, and whatever lse. Use to beef up the kicks as a unit like delay

[nyteryda]

I use separated drum busses for parallel compression purposes only. I mix a lot of club music so I like the kick/808 and snare/clap to hit harder than the other percussion parts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[GJ999x]

What does op mean by snare buss?

Myself i enjoy seperate tracks for most/each drum all combined in a bus for (usually) the lightest touch of compression.

Nothing wrong with that approach in fact i think its traditional...

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Gearslutz App

[Logical Mind]

Originally Posted by GJ999x

What does op mean by snare buss?

Myself i enjoy seperate tracks for most/each drum all combined in a bus for (usually) the lightest touch of compression.

Nothing wrong with that approach in fact i think its traditional...

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Gearslutz App

I'm thinking he means multiple snare sounds bussed together. If not, he's on the wrong track methinks

[A Fak]

As you can see there's no right or wrong and everybody has their own approach. I always break everything off into four AUX's (Vocals, Drums, Instruments, EFX) that feed into the 2buss which then feeds to the master out.

And just because you bussed them doesn't mean you have to do any extra processing if it doesn't need it but it also makes it easy (once you get the right blend) to say raise all the vocals up a dB or whatever without messing with individual tracks or groups.

Now if you have 4 snare's that you're trying to layer and make sound like one then bussing them to a snare buss makes sense to me. I would then send the snare buss to my drum buss.

side note: glue usually refers to compression and/or saturation (sometimes space) of multiple tracks to make them feel like they belong together.

[Zachariah]

Originally Posted by kevgees

I mix the kicks individually then I send them to the kick bus for extra compression, eq, and whatever lse. Use to beef up the kicks as a unit like delay

This is a proper way to use a bus to consolidate. Be careful with parallel compressing with busses...for some reason there is a delay when routing to aux's in PT. U should just duplicate the track if u need to parallel compress.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk

[kevgees]

Originally Posted by Zachariah

This is a proper way to use a bus to consolidate. Be careful with parallel compressing with busses...for some reason there is a delay when routing to aux's in PT. U should just duplicate the track if u need to parallel compress.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk

I've noticed that. If I mute the instrument being bussed I hear the sound still as a small background echo

[damien907]

i rarely use busses at all, but lately have been tossing around the idea. i have a couple questions though, could someone please elaborate a bit on this for me ?ill use an example, say i have 3 snares and i have them eq'd and the fader levels are all good and they are going to a reverb and that sounds good.

so now if i wanted to bus them, i would make the output of them go to the same track, (aux 1) for example. then i woud name this aux track "snare group" or "snare bus," then i would just use the aux track from now on to adjust levels of the snares and maybe add some compression to all fo them at once?
if everything was pretty perfect in the snare bus soundwise, do you guys hide the original 3 snare tracks to save space in the mix window? (i use logic 8)
i assume i cant just mute the original 3 snares or they wouldnt show up in the bus, correct?
how do you guys go about organizing this?

also, say if i wanted to add compresion to my whole drum mix, would you go about it like this?
bus my 3 snares to 1 snare (aux 1) then my 2 kicks to 1 kick (aux 2), and finally my hihats and open hats/crashes (aux 3)
so now after i bussed my original drums to these auxes, i would make the output of all of these three aux tracks (aux 4 which i would call drum sub-mix)
then i could slap a compressor on there and call it good.
is this how you guys would go about compressing all your drums at once? or would you do it a different way?
i would think so many auxes and tracks that arent just going to the LR output would get confusing after awhile? what happens if you lift a fader up accidentaly, do you hide the tracks to avoid this? is that just something you deal with, or am i missing a key organizational thing that you guys do every mix?

thanks!