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Producer's percentage on points and publishing.
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Guy Gabriel
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#1
12th August 2012
Old 12th August 2012
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Producer's percentage on points and publishing.

Hi, lets say an up and coming producer is about to produce a song for a pretty known rapper, what's the common percentage the producer gets if he made the beat AND wrote the hook, and he gets no advance, i'm talking about points and publishing as well.

thanks
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12th August 2012
Old 12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Gabriel View Post
Hi, lets say an up and coming producer is about to produce a song for a pretty known rapper, what's the common percentage the producer gets if he made the beat AND wrote the hook, and he gets no advance, i'm talking about points and publishing as well.

thanks
Doesn't matter who the artist is - if you've written 50% of the song, you're due 50% of the publishing.

Production royalties etc are negotiable.
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13th August 2012
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Production royalties would be 3-5% (standard) - Kefka
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13th August 2012
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A buddy of mine got some beats from a big name producer and they signed a contract that split all publishing 50-50 but gave the producer no points since he paid for the beats straight up. I figured this deal was the regular split for an unknown rapper and a producer who has several hits on the radio and such. I'd be interested in knowing more on the subject.
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13th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kefka View Post
Production royalties would be 3-5% (standard) - Kefka
for actual production yes - but not production in a "beatmaking" capacity. Beatmaker = co-writer = 50% of publishing (assuming one person wrote the backing track, the other did the topline). This IS standard.

If someone is taking an already-written song, and arranging it/producing the recording (ie a traditional producer), then 3-5% of the MECHANICALS is usual. It's not usual for the producer to get a cut of the publishing UNLESS they contributed a big part of the hook. After all, if you're producing a cover version, you're not going to get 3-5% of the publishing from the original writer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by osomusicent View Post
A buddy of mine got some beats from a big name producer and they signed a contract that split all publishing 50-50 but gave the producer no points since he paid for the beats straight up. I figured this deal was the regular split for an unknown rapper and a producer who has several hits on the radio and such. I'd be interested in knowing more on the subject.
Again - doesn't matter if it's names, big names, small names, whatever. If you write the backing track, it's 50% of the song's publishing.

Now in the above case, your friend IN ADDITION to this paid the producer as a "work for hire", and this being a buyout there wasn't any points on the mechanicals (ie each copy sold). This is no different to writing a song on your own, and giving it to someone else to "produce". Whilst many traditional producers DO get points on a record (and even some mixers do), it's equally common for a production fee to be a buyout.
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13th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
for actual production yes - but not production in a "beatmaking" capacity. Beatmaker = co-writer = 50% of publishing (assuming one person wrote the backing track, the other did the topline). This IS standard.
That's all true but it isn't uncommon either for a not so established producer/writer to take a smaller cut in order to facilitate a larger placement. I know from the source that Ryan Teddar did not get 50 on Halo and that is a song he produced and toplined. Beyonce simply wont cut songs where she can't get a bigger piece of the pie...so it's a you choose, take the placement or not scenario. If you look you will see that very few producers/writers will do that with her more than once. It's not really right or fair but that's how she rolls. I guess they count all her vocal runs as the most important part of the writing. Still I think a reasonable place to start a negotiation is a prod fee and the split...work from there.
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13th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
That's all true but it isn't uncommon either for a not so established producer/writer to take a smaller cut in order to facilitate a larger placement. I know from the source that Ryan Teddar did not get 50 on Halo and that is a song he produced and toplined. Beyonce simply wont cut songs where she can't get a bigger piece of the pie...so it's a you choose, take the placement or not scenario. If you look you will see that very few producers/writers will do that with her more than once. It's not really right or fair but that's how she rolls. I guess they count all her vocal runs as the most important part of the writing. Still I think a reasonable place to start a negotiation is a prod fee and the split...work from there.
This is true, but bad example, Ryan has a 60% share on that record. You just felt like bashing Beyonce? lol
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13th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sermstyle View Post
This is true, but bad example, Ryan has a 60% share on that record. You just felt like bashing Beyonce? lol
My bad on that, but still 60 for topline and track. I'm not bashing, I'd do it in a second.
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14th August 2012
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That's true. I've been in that situation myself with established major artists. It sucks, but whachagondo? Now every time I read the artist's name in the liner notes as a writer I was always skeptical LOL.
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14th August 2012
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This is all quite an eye opener actually
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14th August 2012
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Yo Serm you got any tracks approved for Derulo? I've been checking out the dropbox they have going on that, wondering if any of those are yours? I got a tiny piece of one of those...fingers crossed.
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14th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
That's true. I've been in that situation myself with established major artists. It sucks, but whachagondo? Now every time I read the artist's name in the liner notes as a writer I was always skeptical LOL.
Right? That's all I'm saying. I wonder what the splits are to Diplo on Girls is? Granted they gutted it sound wise but IMO the writing of that track is essentially the Major Lazer record as far as the inst goes.

It does actually bring up an interesting point with modern music, a record like major lazer isn't really about chords and melody in a traditional sense. In a way the sound of it is kinda the writing.

Also a interesting record is Good Feeling. OG writers plus Avicci with the first version plus Luke and company. 10 writers and 2 producers! I wonder what Cirkut's split is on that...
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14th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
That's all true but it isn't uncommon either for a not so established producer/writer to take a smaller cut in order to facilitate a larger placement. I know from the source that Ryan Teddar did not get 50 on Halo and that is a song he produced and toplined. Beyonce simply wont cut songs where she can't get a bigger piece of the pie...so it's a you choose, take the placement or not scenario. If you look you will see that very few producers/writers will do that with her more than once. It's not really right or fair but that's how she rolls. I guess they count all her vocal runs as the most important part of the writing. Still I think a reasonable place to start a negotiation is a prod fee and the split...work from there.
Yeah, I've heard of this as well...I'd imagine Mr Tedder got a production fee as well as his %age though (ie buyout for the production part of the deal, separate from the writing).

We had/have a girl band in the UK called the Sugababes...at the height of their success, they reportedly wanted 50% of the publishing to just write the verse lyrics to a song. Consequently, lots of top writers wouldn't work for them, and their material could have been better!
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14th August 2012
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In reality what you want to do is increase your involvement in a record as much as possible. I maximize my revenue by nor only creating the beat (giving me 30-50% songwriting credit) but i also produce/arrange the record. This means i don't only make $ when it is played on the radio, but also when a physical/digital sale is made. Many people do not understand how royalties work. An artist only makes money from mechanical licensing (physical/digital sales) and the same goes for a basic producer royalty. If you create the beat, that is songwriting credit which gets aid through play in public places : concert, radio. A songwriter also gets a percentage of sync licensing fees which is a massive amount of money. Sync fees can be in excess of 1-2 million dollars for the biggest artists and therefor the biggest songwriters will get a 50% cut of that fee(the publishing company will take half of the songwriters cut). Thats my say on publishing. Overall, write everything out beforehand, word of mouth doesn't work for royalties and money. Also while your hear check some of my work:
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14th August 2012
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I spoke to angela hunte recently who wrote Empire State of Mind. She had a 50% cut on the songwriters portion and has made millions from the song. The producer of the song had a small cut (25%) because the melody was partially arranged by other songwriters
a producer who is only involved within recording/arranging and not the instrumental will not get any publishing.
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8th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djdreamstate View Post
I spoke to angela hunte recently who wrote Empire State of Mind. She had a 50% cut on the songwriters portion and has made millions from the song. The producer of the song had a small cut (25%) because the melody was partially arranged by other songwriters
a producer who is only involved within recording/arranging and not the instrumental will not get any publishing.
I'm wondering if this is kosher? Being new to this.
Like would it would cool if I sample Diana Ross', "Brown Baby" in just a little different way than Swollen Members did with "Deep End"?

I mean Asamov sampled "Love on a two way street" and put out "Supa Dynamite" and then a few years later Jay-Z uses the same sample with a little twist on "Empire State of Mind" and it's the biggest song in the world

The whole good artists create, great artists steal....
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9th May 2013
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i read some ester dean article years back and it said producers get 20%
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9th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CocaineAudio View Post
i read some ester dean article years back and it said producers get 20%
Means nothing. Case by case basis.
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