For example,I won t spend 3 hours to make a decent kick from a sine,or i won t setup the room just to record a hit.I will dig in my sample library.It is less creative?yes and no.My kick will not be a landmark of pioneering because i dont need it maybe.But I will spend my time in melody,harmony and arrangement without killing my ears for hours trying to invent the kick!
...or you can stack them and believe that you are Sir Paul McCartney!
Also a preset in the synth isn t someone else's sound design?
Waves One knob someone else's engineering?
I should not talk about EzMix!
If someone told you that the a track you love is made of samples,you would stop loving it?
It is whatever works and whatever sounds great as always.
You can take a Steinway and write the most boring melody or chord progression that will worth shit.
Or you can take a preset sample from Garageband and make a wonderful song.
People who dont know or dont have the talent to write something decent even with 100TB of samples,
they won t.
And people who really got it will make great songs with loops,samples,chopping and cut&paste.
I had an acoustic project with a songwriter working on a tight budget.As we were programming drums I wasnt happy with the sounds.We tried BFD and Superior but opposing with the acoustic instruments they sounded very exposed and out of feeling.
So we used some great drum loops from Beta Monkey and we even made some tutties with the fill samples!Browsing the library like a drumer bringing ideas!
So no sample library can make you a musician or composer.Period
this thread is getting off topic. Usher is talented come on I think everyone can agree with that. The point though is that samples don't = construction pack loops. Using them isn't the same as sampling something. Sure you might sample the actual loop but at the end of the day you could have made that same loop. Unless someone has examples of some mind blowing loop packs that I'm unaware of..most of that shit is basic as hell.
this thread is getting off topic. Usher is talented come on I think everyone can agree with that. The point though is that samples don't = construction pack loops. Using them isn't the same as sampling something. Sure you might sample the actual loop but at the end of the day you could have made that same loop. Unless someone has examples of some mind blowing loop packs that I'm unaware of..most of that shit is basic as hell.
I agree, sampling is not a construction kit. Sampling is great and I love it! Construction kits are for those who need to learn mixing or eq/comp techs... My prob is too many use contruction kits, sell the,, call them theirs! It is not their music! It on beatport all day... I say sample away, but make it your own!
I'm not against sampling, I love sampling too. My first serious keyboard was a brand new Emax II I bought as a teenager, saved my money for a whole year to buy it. I was working at a keyboard store at the time, and would sample all the cool sounds out of every synth in the shop, built up a huge library (for that era) that way.
I had the coolest sounds from all the new synths that way. Was that cheating? I don't think so.
Use everything cause best believe your favorite producers use them too
I agree. I used to be very 'Hip Hop purist' in my thinking towards production and believed everything I did had to be sampled from old vinyl.
I've come to the conclusion that, that's a load of old bollocks!
There aren't really any rules and if there are, they're made to be broken....
The pioneers did what they did because they decided to work with what they had. They were being creative and expanding our possibilities, not going around setting boundaries saying 'You mustn't sample this... You can only sample this and this!'
The difference is they were ahead of the curve and the music industry hadn't caught up with them. As their style of sampling has become more ubiquitous (and copyright lawsuits became more and more common) other companies saw a gap in the market and naturally decided to make it easier by creating loops that are royalty free that anyone can use.
I'm all for digging in the dusty crates for rare breaks, or using or live instrumentation. I think it helps every producer a great deal to understand music theory and how to play an instrument but it's not a necessity. It's important that there are people that do and of course there always will be, but lets not get all elitist here.
Just because something is easy to do doesn't necessarily make it worse. Opening a tin of baked beans with a tin opener isn't worse than cracking it open with a rock! I hear all the musicians out there saying, "Well what happened to all the 'proper' musicians?" There will always be great, highly skilled musicians in music! But music like all art shouldn't be limited to the highly talented or well practiced individuals. It's a form of self expression and should be for everyone! Lest we forget the Punk era and the beginnings of Hip Hop? If people enjoy it and they happen to make money from it, more power to them. Who gives a **** how it's made or what was used to do it?
My personal opinion is use anything if you like it and it works, be it, live instrumentation, sampling an old record or download, or using a fruity loop preset or whatever. The great thing about today is there is choice! If you want to play an instrument you can go do that. If you're on your own and don't want to play an instrument or have no idea how to, you don't have to, you can still create music.
To me the real artistry is in how you use the sample not where you got it from. You have to listen to some producers the likes of J Dilla to realise that. He'd sometimes take from really well known samples that everyone was using yet he still managed to flip it to his own style.
1 - You got the song and you arrange it with loops=21st century is flexible
2 - You found a nice sounding loop and you build a song around=Usher would be proud of you
3 - You build a track from zero without ideas only browsing loops=better go fishing
4 - You sample others great ideas and with some commercial loops around you sell it as your own=hope you wont drop the soap in jail
1 - If you chose to use the loops, though you did have the option to do it all manually, fair play - you're making a creative decision. The danger is your track will sound similar to others (eg anyone who now uses the "Umbrella" apple loop is going to have a load of people going "oh this sounds like Rihanna" and you'll constantly be one step behind.
2 - Again, ok as long as a) it's a loop that hasn't already made it onto a known track and b) you can actually do it the other way. An unsigned/unknown artist doing this runs the risk of someone else coming out with a track featuring the same cool loop, and thus making their track sound like a straight up copy.
3 - this is the "throwing mud" option. You're unlikely to improve or consistently make good tracks if this is the limit to your abilities - if you can't make the sound/melody you hear in your head, how can you call yourself a writer?
4 - no-one ever went to jail for copyright infringement...they did however pay a lot of money for uncleared royalties!
In 1 + 2, it's not the fact that I'm saying cheating is "ok" as long as you can do it the other way too, as if this somehow justifies it. I mean that you're not limited - if you can't write your own music as well, you've only got one option, and if you can't find "the perfect bassline" and can't write your own instead...whatcha gonna do?
Fatboy Slim is a good example - he's a master of fitting loops together, but he can also write melodies - he does know what he's doing. Same with Howie B (neither hip hop as such, but the elements are the same) - the DJ skill comes first, but these guys can program/direct a player if needed.
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If I've ever helped you with a technical problem or provided you with advice you found useful, you can more than repay me by checking out, and maybe buying a couple of songs, by a singer I'm working closely with. It would be much appreciated!
2 - Again, ok as long as a) it's a loop that hasn't already made it onto a known track and b) you can actually do it the other way. An unsigned/unknown artist doing this runs the risk of someone else coming out with a track featuring the same cool loop, and thus making their track sound like a straight up copy.
How many famous songs used the classic "funky drummer" loop? More than I can count.
Lucky James Brown wasn't an asshole.
That or he was on the same label that the other people who used his loops (and had hit songs) were on. Perhaps if you were on Reprise, they didn't charge you for the loops.
Actually I'll restate this, when the Akai MPC 60 and EMU Emulator Samplers were all you needed, and 1" 8 track, A simple Synth like a Jupiter 8 or Prophet 5, a Compressor, and FX unit, a Decent Mic and a Soundproof Booth, A deck, - and a Decent Engineer running a 16 Channel Console, and 5-6 Super Smart guys:
You Got Grandmaster Flash & the Furious 5!
That was real Music!
When I See Usher I can only think of Vanilla Ice
Urggg!
Last edited by TheLastByte; 14th August 2012 at 06:42 AM..
Reason: Perspective
I'm going to give a simple opinion - if it works, use it.
My personal preference, is to make as much as I can myself, because I feel pride in what I've performed. However, if a loop/sample/beat/groove/etc fits the damn song, why wouldn't I use it?
It's art - if it sounds good it is good, no matter how it was made.
That being said, most songs created completely from premade clips never sound 'great'. I don't think they ever sound like they truly fit together, the way they would if you had people playing it live on top of the current material. It's just a 'these fit together but don't really sound like they were made for each other' feel. IMO.
Somebody mentioned Umbrella, the drums were a premade garageband loop, but everything else was played overtop. I don't see how thats any different from how early rap sampled record beats, and played over them.
How many famous songs used the classic "funky drummer" loop? More than I can count.
Lucky James Brown wasn't an asshole.
That or he was on the same label that the other people who used his loops (and had hit songs) were on. Perhaps if you were on Reprise, they didn't charge you for the loops.
I don't know, just an old school thought.
Sampling law took a while to get going of course....
I was thinking more of musical ideas then drum loops.
Seriously.....I'm sure Apple's OSX Chime has already been used by someone some where.....face it the world is for sale! I just can't get my head around buying "PHAT BEATS" for only $1799.00 Direct and straight to you with a 3 line contract! Now....... that's the Underbelly of this online Music Industry! A major Label would shred those contracts in Court!
How many famous songs used the classic "funky drummer" loop? More than I can count.
Lucky James Brown wasn't an asshole.
That or he was on the same label that the other people who used his loops (and had hit songs) were on. Perhaps if you were on Reprise, they didn't charge you for the loops.
I don't know, just an old school thought.
Also look at the 'Amen Break'. The whole genre of Jungle and Drum & Bass was originally entirely based on this one break. Not to mention a lot of Hip Hop etc. Check this documentary it's very interesting!
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