mixes prior to mastering

[chris carter]

If you listen to the songs on my website, I can tell you that none of those are the mastered versions. They only have a limiter for volume. The mastered versions sound essentially identical.

[jeremycox]

I would try to get as close to a mastered reference as possible. Mastering will go better that way IMO

[CJ Mastering]

Here are some of my before and after mastering examples, if this helps you
Mastering examples

CJ

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by CJ Mastering

Here are some of my before and after mastering examples, if this helps you
Mastering examples

CJ

Would u suggest using mastered or unmastered music as a reference. I've never heard someone jamming unmastered mixes as a reference unless they are their own mixes

[JROKER]

I've always referenced mastered audio, but at the end of the day, I'm not a mastering engineer, I mix... just wondering if anyone can post some commercially released material prior to mastering

[NotchontheRocks]

Just reference the mastered tracks, but make sure you level match when doing it. In the end, mastering is getting the most out of a mix and making sure it translates well across the desired mediums. Think of it as referencing the mix at 100% (mastered) rather than 85% (unmastered).

[CJ Mastering]

I have not refferenced songs when mixing for over 15 years or so. I cant remember what i did back then when i was mixing. Now i dont reference anyhting as i just go for the sound thats in my head or what I think the song should sound like.

[NotchontheRocks]

Originally Posted by CJ Mastering

I have not refferenced songs when mixing for over 15 years or so. I cant remember what i did back then when i was mixing. Now i dont reference anyhting as i just go for the sound thats in my head or what I think the song should sound like.

I think a lot of experienced engineers probably do that. But I think the real value in referencing is in the way it helps less experienced engineers with sub par monitoring environments.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Gearslutz App

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by JROKER

I've always referenced mastered audio, but at the end of the day, I'm not a mastering engineer, I mix... just wondering if anyone can post some commercially released material prior to mastering

All the stuff I mentioned in my previous post has been commercially released except the song by Kezo. So there ya go.... my gift to you.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

I would try to get as close to a mastered reference as possible. Mastering will go better that way IMO

I totally agree...although this goes against your ethos in the "2-buss comp" thread doesn't it?!

[Storyville]

References mastered vs. unmastered is almost a silly way to look at it. Referencing is meant as a means of setting a target quality. So reference things that have the quality you want. I'd think you'd want to reference the finished version as ultimately, that's what you are shooting for.

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

I totally agree...although this goes against your ethos in the "2-buss comp" thread doesn't it?!

Lol! I love it. I think we are talking about two different things, and I may have misunderstood the other ops question. I mix into a buss compressor often (rather I get the mix pumping and if adding a buss comp helps the vibe I leave it and move on). But I don't slap a buss comp on my mix when I'm finished with it and then send it off to mastering. I just don't feel like the pros outweigh the cons (another conversion trip, less options for ME)
If i want a mix to really pump, I'll probably have a few different groups being compressed separately itb. I'll probably duck a lot of tracks against kicks and snares as well. And I'll be mixing into my buss comp OTB ;-)
Lol, hope that clarifies my position. Maybe I'm just finicky.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

Lol! I love it. I think we are talking about two different things, and I may have misunderstood the other ops question. I mix into a buss compressor often (rather I get the mix pumping and if adding a buss comp helps the vibe I leave it and move on). But I don't slap a buss comp on my mix when I'm finished with it and then send it off to mastering. I just don't feel like the pros outweigh the cons (another conversion trip, less options for ME)
If i want a mix to really pump, I'll probably have a few different groups being compressed separately itb. I'll probably duck a lot of tracks against kicks and snares as well. And I'll be mixing into my buss comp OTB ;-)
Lol, hope that clarifies my position. Maybe I'm just finicky.

No, I totally agree with you as to not slapping things on at the end...

[3rd Degree]

Originally Posted by Storyville

References mastered vs. unmastered is almost a silly way to look at it. Referencing is meant as a means of setting a target quality. So reference things that have the quality you want. I'd think you'd want to reference the finished version as ultimately, that's what you are shooting for.

I will reference a masted song if I am struggling to mix a beat lol. It's not about achieving the exact sound of another mix, it's about striving to get a similar balance, similar levels, similar sonics, etc, etc, etc, of the mixes you really enjoy.

Lets just say, for the sake of argument, that the song you are referencing has had a bunch of processing done to it make it sound drastically different from the mixed version to the mastered version. It still makes a bunch more sense to try to achieve that in the mixing stage, to me, rather than mastering. That assumes that you are doing the mastering as well as otherwise it's a shot in the dark anyway.

[JROKER]

I just think that referencing just the mix that's not mastered, will be more of a critical pin point of what's really going on in the mix from our fav mixers, not so much from a balance stand point, but sonically. I mean mastering just doesn't make things louder, if that's the case, they would just use comp. And limiters, but they don't, and I'm not trying to match loudness...

[Ezionjd]

Am i missing a point here or isn't OP talking about wanting to check out unmastered songs?
I'm thinking the guy wants to hear what other peoples mixes sound like, before they send them off to master.
Right?

[ncoak]

general rule of thumb is that your mastered tracks really shouldn't sound all that different from your unmastered tracks, with the possible exception of perceived volume. if your ME needs to do a bunch of eqing, compression, 'widening' and other such processing then your mix needs work.

in other words, referencing a mastered recording while mixing is just fine.

[NotchontheRocks]

Originally Posted by Ezionjd

Am i missing a point here or isn't OP talking about wanting to check out unmastered songs?
I'm thinking the guy wants to hear what other peoples mixes sound like, before they send them off to master.
Right?

I have a bunch of good reference mixes, my question is, has anyone ever posted there mix prior to mastering? I think that would be a better ref.

I'm assuming he means a ref while mixing. If so, unmastered tracks would NOT be a better reference for mixing. A mix engineer is supposed to create his best possible mix before sending it to get mastered. Referencing an unmastered mix works against that goal. Why would you want to reference an unmastered mix instead of its superior counterpart?

[wcb123]

An unmastered version (aswell as the mastered version) may give him a better idea of whats possible with the current mix if it were to be mastered now. where he is at professionally as a mixer and when to stop mixing. Trying to match a mastered reference alone could potentially lead to mixing too hot, if you had the premaster aswell, you can make a better judgment call surely.

I understand everybody should be aiming for a Mastered sounding mix, but if people simply can't reach that standard yet, it would be nice to have the premaster to compare your mix to. I guess it gives you a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.


What would be great is if all the Mastering Engineers made available some of their favourite premaster mixes .... Once i have chosen my ME, i can download their premaster and use that as a reference point, with the knowledge that the Mastering Engineer is going to have no problems improving my mix (because he has done it before with a similar sounding mix).

[bgrotto]

The difference between an unmastered mix and a mastered mix should be subtle. And, in my experience, a few db of limiting is all it takes to get the mix to its desired loudness. In other words, there is no reason not to try to make your mix sound like a finished master, because the finished master should sound like your mix. If you had access to unmastered commercial mixes (at least, the ones worth using as a reference), I think you'd find they sound pretty much like the mastered ones.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by ncoak

general rule of thumb is that your mastered tracks really shouldn't sound all that different from your unmastered tracks, with the possible exception of perceived volume. if your ME needs to do a bunch of eqing, compression, 'widening' and other such processing then your mix needs work.

in other words, referencing a mastered recording while mixing is just fine.

+1. I'd be thrilled if an me mastered an album for me, and said "didn't need to do anything bar a bit of limiting"!

Realistically unlikely to happen over w whole album...but something to aim for.

Loudness matching against already mastered mixes shouldn't be an issue - just level match.

[kloqwyse]

I was taught to get the song to sound as good as it possibly can.. then use a spectrum analyzer to make sure there are no frequencies that are overpowering, and if there are, adjust the mix so that it's flatter.. I do a lot of hip hop mixes, so the music is usually bass heavy.. it sounds good coming through the speakers if the bass is up.. but you lose other frequencies.. If you leave the bass where it is and raise up the other frequencies to match it, you still get the thump, and you also get everything else that the song has to offer..

[NotchontheRocks]

Originally Posted by wcb123

An unmastered version (aswell as the mastered version) may give him a better idea of whats possible with the current mix if it were to be mastered now. where he is at professionally as a mixer and when to stop mixing. Trying to match a mastered reference alone could potentially lead to mixing too hot, if you had the premaster aswell, you can make a better judgment call surely.

I understand everybody should be aiming for a Mastered sounding mix, but if people simply can't reach that standard yet, it would be nice to have the premaster to compare your mix to. I guess it gives you a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.


What would be great is if all the Mastering Engineers made available some of their favourite premaster mixes .... Once i have chosen my ME, i can download their premaster and use that as a reference point, with the knowledge that the Mastering Engineer is going to have no problems improving my mix (because he has done it before with a similar sounding mix).

The only time someone should "stop mixing" is when they have done all they can do and it sounds exactly like they want. Just because he can't reach the standard of a mastered mix yet doesn't mean he shouldn't keep striving for it or settle for unmastered refs. As I stated previously in this thread, level matching would be necessary to avoid mixing too hot.

[audiomastermind]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

Lol! I love it. I think we are talking about two different things, and I may have misunderstood the other ops question. I mix into a buss compressor often (rather I get the mix pumping and if adding a buss comp helps the vibe I leave it and move on). But I don't slap a buss comp on my mix when I'm finished with it and then send it off to mastering. I just don't feel like the pros outweigh the cons (another conversion trip, less options for ME)
If i want a mix to really pump, I'll probably have a few different groups being compressed separately itb. I'll probably duck a lot of tracks against kicks and snares as well. And I'll be mixing into my buss comp OTB ;-)
Lol, hope that clarifies my position. Maybe I'm just finicky.

Cheers
Philip

[bonusbmusic]

i will coin in and say this. from my experience trying to use mastered songs as a reference I have found the insane compression/limiting/loudness has made it really hard to hear details in the song to pay attention to. I feel like im hearing a wall of sound instead of anything individual that I could learn from

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by bonusbmusic

i will coin in and say this. from my experience trying to use mastered songs as a reference I have found the insane compression/limiting/loudness has made it really hard to hear details in the song to pay attention to. I feel like im hearing a wall of sound instead of anything individual that I could learn from

Ive had clients send out to their own mastering and end up at -6 rms. Awful.

[Ezionjd]

Originally Posted by NotchontheRocks

I'm assuming he means a ref while mixing. If so, unmastered tracks would NOT be a better reference for mixing. A mix engineer is supposed to create his best possible mix before sending it to get mastered. Referencing an unmastered mix works against that goal. Why would you want to reference an unmastered mix instead of its superior counterpart?

Well you know what they say about assumption right? *joking*

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by kloqwyse

I was taught to get the song to sound as good as it possibly can.. then use a spectrum analyzer to make sure there are no frequencies that are overpowering, and if there are, adjust the mix so that it's flatter.. I do a lot of hip hop mixes, so the music is usually bass heavy.. it sounds good coming through the speakers if the bass is up.. but you lose other frequencies.. If you leave the bass where it is and raise up the other frequencies to match it, you still get the thump, and you also get everything else that the song has to offer..

Most commercial mixes are bass heavy and gradually slope downward as they move up the frequencies. Turning up the high frequencies to match the lows will not sound balanced because by nature high frequencies sound louder than low frequencies of the same volume, so a gradual slope down from lows to highs is what will sound balanced, which is why most great mixes have that slope when looked at in a spectrum analyzer.