"Down On Me" Jeremih and 50 Cent - Mix Session Video

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by scoobs1971

Awesome vids, thnx!!!!

@Ken:
- almost the whole mix you were using plugins. What did you do on the desk towards the end of the 3rd vid what you apparently couldn't do with the plugs?
- How did you set up the SSL? Where the PT faders directly mixing the SSL faders? I'm trying to figure how much the SSL is responsible for the end result sonically. I had the feeling you had so much more headroom than mixing ITB.
- do you always do your own mastering? Would you still use the Brainworks and limiter on the 2-bus if you had to hand it over to a mastering engineer?

Damn thats alot of questions :-)

Well, for the purpose of teaching i did much more in the box and less on the SSL than i did in the original mix. i did a fair amount of channel eq'ing on the SSL, without recalling the original mix i couldnt tell you on what. The SSL second bank of faders control PT, there is a flip button that flips control of the faders from the analog signal paths to the digital signal paths. It doesnt do anything to the analog signal paths when you flip, except you cant control them until you flip back to analog mode.

i dont ever try to do my own mastering, however, i do try to deliver finished mixes that sound as finished as i can get them. In the case of "Down On Me", my version went straight to CD and radio. Not sure if that was intentional or someone's oversight. I'd have liked to hear it mastered myself, but nevertheless, i am incredibly proud of how well the mix stood up on the radio and in clubs with no additional mastering. patting myself on the back for that one.

[Kensai]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Damn thats alot of questions :-)

Well, for the purpose of teaching i did much more in the box and less on the SSL than i did in the original mix. i did a fair amount of channel eq'ing on the SSL, without recalling the original mix i couldnt tell you on what. The SSL second bank of faders control PT, there is a flip button that flips control of the faders from the analog signal paths to the digital signal paths. It doesnt do anything to the analog signal paths when you flip, except you cant control them until you flip back to analog mode.

i dont ever try to do my own mastering, however, i do try to deliver finished mixes that sound as finished as i can get them. In the case of "Down On Me", my version went straight to CD and radio. Not sure if that was intentional or someone's oversight. I'd have liked to hear it mastered myself, but nevertheless, i am incredibly proud of how well the mix stood up on the radio and in clubs with no additional mastering. patting myself on the back for that one.

An engineer's mix (and master) is usually only as good as the sounds he is given (as you somewhat stated in the vid) and the initial recording. I'm thankful you shared this because I learned some very useful production techniques by seeing how mick's tracks were layered. I hope to hear a lot more from him in the future.

I will give you sincere props for being incredibly efficient. You and I worked on the same mix once.. and although I liked my mix more (which i never turned in for a few reasons), you did in a few hours what took me days to do in my less than proficient home setup at the time. I've learned a lot from you, not so much as far as specific technique is concerned, but definitely as far as a lot of the other stuff, which took me a lot of heartache to realize, is just as important. And no, you don't know me but I do personally know a lot of people who have worked with you.

I'm not a fan of too many artists, musicians, producers, engineers right now.. it's very very hard for me to stay inspired for me personally in todays climate ESPECIALLY because of politics, i'm way way too honest for this business sometimes and I've been jerked out of potentially millions in revenue. I won't get into specifics but without that validation, even as far as a paycheck, it can be pretty hard to stay motivated...even when you're making music for all the right reasons. Integrity is hard to come by.

All tear-jerking aside..

The 'down on me' record I feel was one of the most sonically relevant records of that year and one of THE best urban records of the last 5 years even if the numbers don't directly dictate that I think it lead to an incredible shift in momentum in the standard as far as urban is concerned. So major props for being a part of bringing it to life and allowing us to share in the process. The more we know about the past, the more we can see the future...and then we can truly make the most of the moment. Peace.

[raffael77]

@Ken Lewis

In my opinion you did well in a commercial way but the mixing is sounding to clear. This is exactly the big issue in mainstream land. You made a beautfull pop song instead of making it a hiphop song. As a engineer you are really good and you knwo what you do. You make alot of money for working with big artists. It's weird to read you want to here the mastering as well, like you got something to say because mastering is the finishing touch. Are you a producer as well and do you do freelance as a mixing engineer?

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by raffael77

@Ken Lewis

In my opinion you did well in a commercial way but the mixing is sounding to clear. This is exactly the big issue in mainstream land. You made a beautfull pop song instead of making it a hiphop song. As a engineer you are really good and you knwo what you do. You make alot of money for working with big artists. It's weird to read you want to here the mastering as well, like you got something to say because mastering is the finishing touch. Are you a producer as well and do you do freelance as a mixing engineer?

Honestly, if i would have mixed this to be a "hip hop" song, it would have never stayed on the Billboard Charts for 7 months straight, it would have never sold over 2 million copies, and i would have been grossly negligent as a mixer not to have given it the mix it needed. It didnt need a dirty hip hop mix, it needed to sound like money was coming out of the speakers on the radio, and for seven months straight, it did.

I make my mixes as finished sounding as i possibly can so that my clients can hear exactly what their song sounds like in its best form. If the mastering engineer can redo the final compression better, i give them an uncompressed final as well. When i deliver a mix, i want my clients to say "listen, it sounds like its already on the radio", i dont want them to say "well, i THINK it'll be perfect once its mastered, i HOPE it will be perfect once its mastered, i wonder if it will be perfect once its mastered". make sense?

[scoobs1971]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

I make my mixes as finished sounding as i possibly can so that my clients can hear exactly what their song sounds like in its best form. If the mastering engineer can redo the final compression better, i give them an uncompressed final as well.

Thank you Ken for answering all my questions! Although the quoted question was not mine, it did answered a question that I forgot to ask, lol.
I'm really looking forward to your fourthcoming EDM mix video. When is it due?

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by scoobs1971

I'm really looking forward to your fourthcoming EDM mix video. When is it due?

Well, i was planning to shoot the EDM lesson this weekend, but my computer decided to take a vacation. We've been working all weekend to get back up and running but right now the studio is awful quiet. Maybe in a week or two. Its gonna be a KILLER lesson. The song has a ton of tracks, its an excellent production, i did a really nice barter with the producers to allow me to use their instrumental and production in the lesson.

Unfortunately, i have to budget my time for a ton of different things and am often left without enough time to do a Lesson, the good part about that though is it probably means i am making a hit record which is why you wanna learn from me in the first place :-) Speaking of which, you must see this video for this project i just mixed for China / Taiwan. the artist is Jolin Tsai, the song is called "The Big Artist". This video got 10 million views on its first day on Weibo (Chinese youtube). its like a 4 minute movie. Seeing my work married to a video production like this makes all of those hours totally worth it.

??? Jolin Tsai - ????The Great Artist (??official ???HD?????MV) - YouTube

Watch it!! insane video.

[raffael77]

@Ken Lewis

Do you work with indie artists as well.

[scoobs1971]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Well, i was planning to shoot the EDM lesson this weekend, but my computer decided to take a vacation. We've been working all weekend to get back up and running but right now the studio is awful quiet. Maybe in a week or two. Its gonna be a KILLER lesson. The song has a ton of tracks, its an excellent production, i did a really nice barter with the producers to allow me to use their instrumental and production in the lesson.

Sorry to hear for the crashing computer. Can't hardly wait for the video!!

[jimdrake]

Any one else notice the master buss stuff is not recorded into the video feed?

Never heard of people putting maxxbass on vocals before! Thanks for the tip!

Who made the decision to put this out without a seperate mastering session?

I am really starting to believe that well written, produced, recorded and mixed stuff does not need to be "mastered" in order to be POPULAR. And that "mastering" as a requirement is a hang over from A&R smoke-and-mirrors that has no place in the world any more. Nice to see examples in the real world that back up this belief!

Thanks for the time to make the video! (maybe next time you can afford lights that don't need to be held up by a human )

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by raffael77

@Ken Lewis

Do you work with indie artists as well.

yes.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by jimdrake

Any one else notice the master buss stuff is not recorded into the video feed?

Never heard of people putting maxxbass on vocals before! Thanks for the tip!

Who made the decision to put this out without a seperate mastering session?

I am really starting to believe that well written, produced, recorded and mixed stuff does not need to be "mastered" in order to be POPULAR. And that "mastering" as a requirement is a hang over from A&R smoke-and-mirrors that has no place in the world any more. Nice to see examples in the real world that back up this belief!

Thanks for the time to make the video! (maybe next time you can afford lights that don't need to be held up by a human )

well, i think mastering is usually an important step. I have been mixing for major labels for 20 years now, and i deliver my mixes as close to mastered as i can get them, because i tend to know what mastered sounds like and how to get it. Most people dont have the tools or the skills and mistake loud for mastered. I think Mastering still definitely has its place for the vast majority of projects. And also, you are looking at mastering as a one song thing. One of the more important things mastering engineers do is make sure the sound and volume of a project is consistent from song to song, so one song isnt super bright and the next super dark, etc...

[moneyrollbeats]

cooool!!!!!

[moneyrollbeats]

cooool!!!!!


www.moneyrollbeats.net

[scoobs1971]

@Ken: In Pt2 you are using the H3000 Factory on 50s voice. I'm trying to make the same fx with my stock Cubase plugins using a FX channel with stereodelays (1/16 + 1/32, no feedback, no eq) into a stereo chorus. Am I on the right track or are the settings different?

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by scoobs1971

@Ken: In Pt2 you are using the H3000 Factory on 50s voice. I'm trying to make the same fx with my stock Cubase plugins using a FX channel with stereodelays (1/16 + 1/32, no feedback, no eq) into a stereo chorus. Am I on the right track or are the settings different?

you are not on the right track. try about a 8ms delay left, and pitch shift it up 8 cents, then a 13 ms delay right pitch shifted down 8 cents. Modulate both slightly, ad a bit of feedback, and you should be in the general ballpark.


BUT HEY!!! if what you are doing sounds good, go with it!!!

[DAH]

Ken, I must admit although it is a lucious pop-mix, not a hip-hop one, the diversity of the low-end components and the way you made them all work in the mix - props and hats off to you!

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by DAH

Ken, I must admit although it is a lucious pop-mix, not a hip-hop one, the diversity of the low-end components and the way you made them all work in the mix - props and hats off to you!

Yes and if i mixed it to be a hip hop sounding record, it would have never sold 2 million plus copies and charted #1 on a Billboard Singles chart for 9 weeks and stayed on the charts for 7 months straight. But good observation

I mixers most important job is to give the song the mix it needs. And of course, what your definition of hip hop is, someone else might say "nah, thats not hip hop, THIS is hip hop", and the next person will have a completely different opinion of what hip hop is. Is hip hop not hip hop because it tops the pop charts? Honestly, i'd say this is R&B crossing over to pop, but mine is only one opinion.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Yes and if i mixed it to be a hip hop sounding record, it would have never sold 2 million plus copies and charted #1 on a Billboard Singles chart for 9 weeks and stayed on the charts for 7 months straight. But good observation

I mixers most important job is to give the song the mix it needs. And of course, what your definition of hip hop is, someone else might say "nah, thats not hip hop, THIS is hip hop", and the next person will have a completely different opinion of what hip hop is. Is hip hop not hip hop because it tops the pop charts? Honestly, i'd say this is R&B crossing over to pop, but mine is only one opinion.

Lol... that song had (urban) pop written all over it. The finished production of a song is ultimately what decides the type of genre it should be labeled as. In no way would I see that song as Hip hop. Approaching the mix that way would have ensured the opposite result of what actually happened with the track on the mainstream. Anyone with a decent amount of sense would know this.

It wasn't my kind of song to listen to, but I couldn't even hate on what I heard. The finished mix you came up with made it worth listening to. Even if it was just to analyze the ear candy.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by PettyCash

Lol... that song had (urban) pop written all over it. The finished production of a song is ultimately what decides the type of genre it should be labeled as. In no way would I see that song as Hip hop. Approaching the mix that way would have ensured the opposite result of what actually happened with the track on the mainstream. Anyone with a decent amount of sense would know this.

It wasn't my kind of song to listen to, but I couldn't even hate on what I heard. The finished mix you came up with made it worth listening to. Even if it was just to analyze the ear candy.

Lets give SOME of the credit (how bout most) to the producer who did an awesome job creating that track.

[scoobs1971]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

you are not on the right track. try about a 8ms delay left, and pitch shift it up 8 cents, then a 13 ms delay right pitch shifted down 8 cents. Modulate both slightly, ad a bit of feedback, and you should be in the general ballpark.


BUT HEY!!! if what you are doing sounds good, go with it!!!

It sounded not quiet the same, lol. Thnx!!!

[scoobs1971]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Yes and if i mixed it to be a hip hop sounding record, it would have never sold 2 million plus copies and charted #1 on a Billboard Singles chart for 9 weeks and stayed on the charts for 7 months straight. But good observation

I mixers most important job is to give the song the mix it needs. And of course, what your definition of hip hop is, someone else might say "nah, thats not hip hop, THIS is hip hop", and the next person will have a completely different opinion of what hip hop is. Is hip hop not hip hop because it tops the pop charts? Honestly, i'd say this is R&B crossing over to pop, but mine is only one opinion.

@Ken: Yesterday I listened to the Watch The Throne album (nice credits! ) and compared it to the Rihanna and David Guetta albums.
Sonically, a world of difference!! The pop albums sounded way louder and had more emphasize on the mid frequency stuff while still keeping tight and punchy lows.
So what would you have done differently on the mixing approach when you wanted it to be more hip hop?

[BrokenSilenceEnt]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Yes and if i mixed it to be a hip hop sounding record, it would have never sold 2 million plus copies and charted #1 on a Billboard Singles chart for 9 weeks and stayed on the charts for 7 months straight. But good observation

I mixers most important job is to give the song the mix it needs. And of course, what your definition of hip hop is, someone else might say "nah, thats not hip hop, THIS is hip hop", and the next person will have a completely different opinion of what hip hop is. Is hip hop not hip hop because it tops the pop charts? Honestly, i'd say this is R&B crossing over to pop, but mine is only one opinion.

ouch, reckless sonning right there.

Ken I love your work and mixing videos, please do more of these for the bigger singles because its extremely helpful and gives insight on how to mix a hit record in today's market.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by BrokenSilenceEnt

ouch, reckless sonning right there.

Ken I love your work and mixing videos, please do more of these for the bigger singles because its extremely helpful and gives insight on how to mix a hit record in today's market.

I had to pull ALOT of strings to get permission to do this one. and spent alot of money putting it together. but if i get the chance to do it again with another big single i think i will. the response has been great to this so far, way more than anything i expected.

[Jpchartrand]

Awesome! Can't wait to get home and watch this!