I figure anyone layin down their own beats in a sequencer has some swing in their style. However, to clean some stuff up sometimes, what do u guys set ur quantize too (if u use it)?
I used to quantize pretty heavy at 16th (or 32nd sometimes) with 15% swing. But after that i got better at 'key-drumming' and would manually clean stray notes. That gets cumbersome over large tracks with diff drum changes and u just might wanna change it later after u drop in bass, leads, other percussive and rhythm elements anyways.
So i was thinkn of giving quantizing another chance. I know the quantize functions differ from daw to daw but i know at least swing is universal. Cubase has like 'grab' or 'range' or something like that...
Any thoughts? I guess some folks throw around some 'templates' they made...dont know too much about that.
I rarely quantize, but when I do, I'll use different quantize settings every bar or so. So on my MPC I'll have bar 1 at 57% quantize and bar 2 at 55 or 58/59% for 1/4 hihats for example.
quantize or groove templates are awesome. i've been huge into using ableton to extract timing information out of anything and everything and using that for quantizing my own beats/basslines/etc. ableton particularly excels at it, but you should be able to find a similar function in whatever DAW you're using.
Thanks for the suggestions...I'll go check out that electronics thread.
I've had some luck with 16T and 32T but not all the time. And for those that suggested "no quantization", as I mentioned in my OP I tried that..and do have some luck with it, but it gets hard over long passes. I don't typically even like to just NAIL an 4-12 bar loop and just copy/paste it all over. I feel like that's just as good a way to give a song that "robotic feel" just the same as quantizing. I might go through half or even the whole song in one pass (on a MIDI keyboard) and try quantizing that or moving obvious mistakes around.
Idk...I guess Im just thinkin out loud here. If anyone has any swing suggestions let me know too.
And for those that suggested "no quantization", as I mentioned in my OP I tried that..and do have some luck with it, but it gets hard over long passes.
Then practice! Just like anybody else who plays an instrument. Take some rhythm/cadence lessons.
People who learn to play acoustic instruments have no quantize feature either.
Then practice! Just like anybody else who plays an instrument. Take some rhythm/cadence lessons.
People who learn to play acoustic instruments have no quantize feature either.
They develop the skill.
True lol....I always forget that.
However, most people that play an acoustic instrument aren't also playing the role of synth player/bassist/guitarist/vocalist/producer/engineer/mixer/DAW builder/etc LOL. I work with others on some projects....but not all. For solo stuff...this is my own enterprise, and I get spread out pretty thin and tend to look for shortcuts....I think its only natural.
Not if Youre a shit drummer. Sure for a human feel 100 percent quantise is robotic. As you get closer to 50 % you are adding swing or shuffle. You are no longer direct on the grid. You can 100 quantise then use a groove template. Basically the rules are not clear. What you will hear a lot is don't do it for human feel ..my comment above answers that one and or a finite amount. Once again I agree with Karl that 16t is great because the movement is minimal and promotes the feel of a live groove. Personally the quantisation is not as relevant as groove. Bless.
Every person playing an acoustic instrument has to have their timing down..whether that be the bassist, guitarist, keyboard player, etc...
Lol i understand that....but I'm playing ALL roles and am better at some instruments than others. I've played bass for 10-12 years...only been keyboard drumming for about 1-2. I suppose I could spend the next 5-6 months JUST key drumming and get really good but I kinda wanna move forward on all aspects.
I guess that's where quantizing comes in for me...laying down a feel and then only using it to catch stray notes. The hard part is finding the quantize that matches my feel. Same problem everyone else has with it I guess lol. I was just hoping some folks could throw out some general quantize settings they use to see if that would give me some "A-HA!" moments...settings I didn't think to use.
Not if Youre a shit drummer. Sure for a human feel 100 percent quantise is robotic. As you get closer to 50 % you are adding swing or shuffle. You are no longer direct on the grid. You can 100 quantise then use a groove template. Basically the rules are not clear. What you will hear a lot is don't do it for human feel ..my comment above answers that one and or a finite amount. Once again I agree with Karl that 16t is great because the movement is minimal and promotes the feel of a live groove. Personally the quantisation is not as relevant as groove. Bless.
I have worked my ass off trying to get tight drums using VI's and midi. The only thing that truly worked for me was cutting up the audio in beat detective.
I guess kinda like cutting things up in a MPC. Midi has gottin better in the last few years but I think cutting up audio is tighter. DP and Ableton's midi are pretty nice though.
I know where yo are coming from. I've moved away from quantize myself but when I did I would apply a mpc swing of 56% or something like that. Don't really remember to be honest.
I like loose... if you start to mess up around the 2 min mark or something start again from that point. Or loop record section by section. We won't tell anyone.
I read that Toto recorded the rhythm section to Africa one time through and then used their favorite 4 bar loop if I'm remembering it right.
IMO a loose 4 bar loop doesn't sound bad at all... depends on the piece.
This is coming from a guy that likes slight mistakes here and there, but once again, depends on the piece/artist.
Hip hop "producers" (more precise: beatmakers) have totally different starting approach then musicians from other genres do.
Rap cats are 99 % dependent on technology and try do to everything by themselves and thats why this section is full of silly threads with questions that indirectly ask "which software or hardware will make me best music"
If rap "producers" (beatmakers) took time to learn basics of at least one instrument or just basics of music theory and the art of song writing and arranging (if they want to be PRODUCERS in true meaning of that word and create instrumentals with good "chemistry" that makes sense instead of throwing brunch of random stuff together) this genre would be much better.
So instead of relying on technology and technical stuff the focus should be put on music and playing like full time musicians do
Then there would be no threads like "This sequencer have the best "swing". The best swing is in player itself (after all, drummers from 50s, 60s, and 70s dint have any hardware, yet everyone admires how great those grooves sound on funk and soul records that everyone here samples from), quantization kills the organic feel and makes drums sound cheap like karaoke music, and thats very irritating to listen for 4+ minutes straight.
I apologize for rant, not to put anyone down, but I feel like people don't understand this, everybody with sequencer, turntable and midi keyboard is calling himself a producer, and I saw that big population of artists in rap genre (hobby or full time celebs) don't know what exactly are they are doing when it comes down to production and recording process.
It sucks to see how many people waste time and money on equipment they cant use to the fullest thinking they will be become next Dr. Dre with superstar celebrity status, which is very unlucky to happen, because not everybody is born with that shine to make quality music, and owning the sequencer with "best swing" is not a key for making good music.
Exactly like owning expensive high-end vintage Les Paul or Start wont make you new Hendirix, if you dont have that talent right from the start. $50 chinese guitar or 5000$ custom built guitar the playing remains same without proper skill, experience, passion and talent.
Trap Beats and most beats that are 808 based ... you should always quantized .. or you would have phasing issues ... but if you're going for a more groove based production,than don't quantize ........ but heres a great piece of advise as far as business goes... The artist and labels that are out here spending the most money,are spending money on Quantized beats.. so don't listen to fools that say Never Quantize
Trap Beats and most beats that are 808 based ... you should always quantized .. or you would have phasing issues ... but if you're going for a more groove based production,than don't quantize ........ but heres a great piece of advise as far as business goes... The artist and labels that are out here spending the most money,are spending money on Quantized beats.. so don't listen to fools that say Never Quantize
The OP appears to be looking for a natural feel and swing to his drums....
"Trap beats" are anathema to this.
So yes, "quantize off" is great advice regarding the OP's premise.
Hip hop "producers" (more precise: beatmakers) have totally different starting approach then musicians from other genres do.
Rap cats are 99 % dependent on technology and try do to everything by themselves and thats why this section is full of silly threads with questions that indirectly ask "which software or hardware will make me best music"
If rap "producers" (beatmakers) took time to learn basics of at least one instrument or just basics of music theory and the art of song writing and arranging (if they want to be PRODUCERS in true meaning of that word and create instrumentals with good "chemistry" that makes sense instead of throwing brunch of random stuff together) this genre would be much better.
So instead of relying on technology and technical stuff the focus should be put on music and playing like full time musicians do
Then there would be no threads like "This sequencer have the best "swing". The best swing is in player itself (after all, drummers from 50s, 60s, and 70s dint have any hardware, yet everyone admires how great those grooves sound on funk and soul records that everyone here samples from), quantization kills the organic feel and makes drums sound cheap like karaoke music, and thats very irritating to listen for 4+ minutes straight.
I apologize for rant, not to put anyone down, but I feel like people don't understand this, everybody with sequencer, turntable and midi keyboard is calling himself a producer, and I saw that big population of artists in rap genre (hobby or full time celebs) don't know what exactly are they are doing when it comes down to production and recording process.
It sucks to see how many people waste time and money on equipment they cant use to the fullest thinking they will be become next Dr. Dre with superstar celebrity status, which is very unlucky to happen, because not everybody is born with that shine to make quality music, and owning the sequencer with "best swing" is not a key for making good music.
Exactly like owning expensive high-end vintage Les Paul or Start wont make you new Hendirix, if you dont have that talent right from the start. $50 chinese guitar or 5000$ custom built guitar the playing remains same without proper skill, experience, passion and talent.
MPC 3000 I think...not sure which MPC but it was/is his prime BRAIN that everything else in his studio is built around according to what I read in a Mike Elizondo interview. Mike, henceforth, fell in love with it also.
MPC 3000 I think...not sure which MPC but it was/is his prime BRAIN that everything else in his studio is built around according to what I read in a Mike Elizondo interview. Mike, henceforth, fell in love with it also.
Hip hop "producers" (more precise: beatmakers) have totally different starting approach then musicians from other genres do.
Rap cats are 99 % dependent on technology and try do to everything by themselves and thats why this section is full of silly threads with questions that indirectly ask "which software or hardware will make me best music"
If rap "producers" (beatmakers) took time to learn basics of at least one instrument or just basics of music theory and the art of song writing and arranging (if they want to be PRODUCERS in true meaning of that word and create instrumentals with good "chemistry" that makes sense instead of throwing brunch of random stuff together) this genre would be much better.
So instead of relying on technology and technical stuff the focus should be put on music and playing like full time musicians do
Then there would be no threads like "This sequencer have the best "swing". The best swing is in player itself (after all, drummers from 50s, 60s, and 70s dint have any hardware, yet everyone admires how great those grooves sound on funk and soul records that everyone here samples from), quantization kills the organic feel and makes drums sound cheap like karaoke music, and thats very irritating to listen for 4+ minutes straight.
I apologize for rant, not to put anyone down, but I feel like people don't understand this, everybody with sequencer, turntable and midi keyboard is calling himself a producer, and I saw that big population of artists in rap genre (hobby or full time celebs) don't know what exactly are they are doing when it comes down to production and recording process.
It sucks to see how many people waste time and money on equipment they cant use to the fullest thinking they will be become next Dr. Dre with superstar celebrity status, which is very unlucky to happen, because not everybody is born with that shine to make quality music, and owning the sequencer with "best swing" is not a key for making good music.
Exactly like owning expensive high-end vintage Les Paul or Start wont make you new Hendirix, if you dont have that talent right from the start. $50 chinese guitar or 5000$ custom built guitar the playing remains same without proper skill, experience, passion and talent.
Thank you! If I knew who you were I'd buy you a beer.
Hip hop "producers" (more precise: beatmakers) have totally different starting approach then musicians from other genres do.
Rap cats are 99 % dependent on technology and try do to everything by themselves and thats why this section is full of silly threads with questions that indirectly ask "which software or hardware will make me best music"
If rap "producers" (beatmakers) took time to learn basics of at least one instrument or just basics of music theory and the art of song writing and arranging (if they want to be PRODUCERS in true meaning of that word and create instrumentals with good "chemistry" that makes sense instead of throwing brunch of random stuff together) this genre would be much better.
So instead of relying on technology and technical stuff the focus should be put on music and playing like full time musicians do
Then there would be no threads like "This sequencer have the best "swing". The best swing is in player itself (after all, drummers from 50s, 60s, and 70s dint have any hardware, yet everyone admires how great those grooves sound on funk and soul records that everyone here samples from), quantization kills the organic feel and makes drums sound cheap like karaoke music, and thats very irritating to listen for 4+ minutes straight.
I apologize for rant, not to put anyone down, but I feel like people don't understand this, everybody with sequencer, turntable and midi keyboard is calling himself a producer, and I saw that big population of artists in rap genre (hobby or full time celebs) don't know what exactly are they are doing when it comes down to production and recording process.
It sucks to see how many people waste time and money on equipment they cant use to the fullest thinking they will be become next Dr. Dre with superstar celebrity status, which is very unlucky to happen, because not everybody is born with that shine to make quality music, and owning the sequencer with "best swing" is not a key for making good music.
Exactly like owning expensive high-end vintage Les Paul or Start wont make you new Hendirix, if you dont have that talent right from the start. $50 chinese guitar or 5000$ custom built guitar the playing remains same without proper skill, experience, passion and talent.
This makes too much sense to be posted in this forum. Most of these cats don't want truth. They want crutches!
This makes too much sense to be posted in this forum. Most of these cats don't want truth. They want crutches!
Crutches like time correction.
I hope none of these posts are directed at me (the OP)! Like I said in my first couple posts (if anyone read em and didnt just skip to the bottom to post their quantize BASHING rant), I'm a 15+ year electric bass player, guitar player, saxophone player since the 4th GRADE, intermediate keyboardist, drummer, and vocalist. I've played and performed in over 10 bands and sat in with many others in genres from reggae to hip-hop to rock and funk.
If I wanna use a LIL quantize to speed up a workflow on an instrument that isn't necessarily my forte, I feel no shame in that. It was probably just a stupid idea to start this thread...maybe I feel SOME shame in that....but that's it.
And anyways, since posting this I learned about Cubase "iterative quantize" function. It basically does everything I was trying to learn here.....the best way to just lightly clean up stray notes while keeping the "feel" of what I was performing. Any Cubase users should look it up
Also, I'm a way better drummer on a REAL kit than on MIDI pads/keys...but I don't own a kit or drum mics right now....maybe someone can bash me for that.
So keep posting about how REAL producers do this and do that...I probably won't check back here!
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