Login / Register
 
MPC4000 timing issue put very simply
New Reply
Subscribe
tstu102
Thread Starter
#1
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
MPC4000 timing issue put very simply

The following is done with no sync; no timecode whatsoever

I record 8 bars of MPC click track to an audio track in Pro Tools. I then tab to transient the first click of each 2 bars loop, and put each two bar loop on top of eachother using different audio tracks.

The clicks DO NOT ALWAYS LINE UP. Sometimes they are way off; sometimes they are close. Sometimes some are dead on, sometimes others are dead on, etc etc.

Please help. Please advise. Tell me why this is the "most accurate sequencer..."

I have pics as well I can upload if really neccesary

thx
#2
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Goa-Dubs's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,776

Goa-Dubs is online now
No problem here.Whats up?Maybe its tha funk.....
#3
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
  #3
Lives for gear
 
godphaser's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,085

godphaser is offline
Hi,

Take a look at this website:

Innerclock Systems - Precision Midi Clock Din Sync and Tempo Synchronisation Solutions

And what their tests reveal about the 4000:

Akai: MPC-4000/OS Version 1.71

This Test: Pattern Mode/Cycle - Internal Sync

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
1 Samples [0.02ms]

This Test: Song Mode - Internal Sync

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
6000/ 6000/ 5996/ 6001/ 6000/ 5999/ 5996/ 6003/ 5999/ 6000/ 5994/ 6004/ 5999/ 5999/ 5995/ 6004

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
11 Samples [0.23ms]

This Test: Pattern Mode/Cycle - External Sample Accurate Midi Clock

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
6000/ 5998/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 6001/ 5998

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
3 Samples [0.06ms]

This Test: Song Mode - External Sample Accurate Midi Clock

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5998/ 5999/ 6000/ 6000/ 5999/ 5998/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
2 Samples [0.04ms]
__________________
Beatmaker & Mix Engineer

http://oranesebushido.tumblr.com/

Ben The Glorious Bastard
#4
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Goa-Dubs's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,776

Goa-Dubs is online now
thanx for that....
tstu102
Thread Starter
#5
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
Right, but then why is mine off?
#6
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
godphaser's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,085

godphaser is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
thanx for that....
I just tried to answer with facts, sorry if that made you sleepy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstu102 View Post
Right, but then why is mine off?
Make the test explained in the link I gave then see if your is way off the numbers indicated in their test.
Quote
1
#7
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
  #7
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 295

Below Zero is offline
Ur picky

Let it be off

Its been off for years and youve loved the music

Relax
tstu102
Thread Starter
#8
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
No I will not let it be off. I'm not looking for opinions here, I'm looking for factual help. I refuse to let this thing play beats before the beginning of the bar and have my duplicating and chopping get all ****ed up. Especially when everything I sequence comes from the MPC and it adds up to 20 tracks sometimes.

I love humanizing, I love things before the beat, I love things after the beat, and I love things on the beat. The point is: I want to decide when and where this happens. Read the article - humanizing is not when "off" happens randomly, but when we humans decide where it happens, and by how much

My MPC1000 was more accurate than this thing. Something must be wrong somewhere.

I will do the test tonight, and try the spdif out as well, but I can clearly see we're talking about at least 100 samples in some cases.
tstu102
Thread Starter
#9
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
I just recorded 48 bars and it gets sooo off sync, getting more so and more so the longer I record. it RUSHES like a MF, and I knew this. By the time I get to the 49th bar it is off by 620 MS.

My 1000 NEVER did this (although this thing sounds much better).

litmus test:


0
5996
11996
17996
23996
29996
35992
41992
47992
53992
65992
71988
77988
83988
89984
95984
101984
107984
113984
119984
125980
13980
137980
143976

etc etc.

PLEASE HELP
#10
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #10
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
why dont you sync it and try with timecode?
tstu102
Thread Starter
#11
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
believe me, I have. I am trying to narrow the problem down and rule out any possible errors in midi gear.

I'll litmus now, with midi timecode
#12
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #12
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
how are u transfering ur audio into protools btw?
#13
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #13
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
what interface? is it usb or firewire?
tstu102
Thread Starter
#14
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
Apogee mini me (master) --> spdif out --> digi002 spdif in -->firewire 400

Next thing I was going to try was switching sound cards, but since the MPC1000 stays in sync on internal mode throughout the whole session, I doubt its my audio in setup.
tstu102
Thread Starter
#15
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
Midi Timecode:


0
6000 (yay)
12060
18000
24000
30060
35996
41996
47996
53992
60052
65996
71996
78052
83996
#16
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #16
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
yo, what OS do you have? if u want, you can remote desktop and i can check ur settings in protools.
#17
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #17
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
what version of protools do you have?
#18
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #18
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
to be honest it sounds like u got 2 clocksources going :/
#19
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
awhitebeats's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 570

Send a message via Skype™ to awhitebeats
awhitebeats is offline
Midi clock or time code is a life saver. Using my 4k as the master and PT10 slaved. Had the same drift and timing issues doing it how you did it. Grab a USB midi sport and do it that way
__________________
Hottest Spot on the Web!
tstu102
Thread Starter
#20
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
PT8.0.1
OS 10.5.8

but but... the MPC1000 stays on point...

how is two clock sources possible?
tstu102
Thread Starter
#21
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
I have a midiman, and it varies by 60 samples, as you can see above. which sucks but oh well
tstu102
Thread Starter
#22
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
I slave TO pro tools, should I do it the other way?? Seems kind of crazy
#23
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #23
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstu102 View Post
PT8.0.1
OS 10.5.8

but but... the MPC1000 stays on point...

how is two clock sources possible?
if u have a MIDI device connected on the thru port, it can cause a echo and the beat clock messages gets sent back into system and there will now be two clock sources

start disconnecting all midi devices and see if it causes issue. I still think its few settings on ur mpc and protools need to be adjusted
tstu102
Thread Starter
#24
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
hmm. Well I have midiman sending midi timecode out, and I use the digi002 midi out for sequencing notes because I read you shouldn't have both being sent on the same port...
#25
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #25
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
its either 2 things. its a buffer issue that needs to be corrected or settings. ur mpc is fine if it makes u feel better
#26
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #26
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
I suggest u factory reset ur MPC, then follow these instructions im about to post. you want protools as master correct?
tstu102
Thread Starter
#27
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
-Please don't post those standard instructions found on akai's website!

-If its not my MPC, then why is the internal clock so off in my MPC4000 and not my MPC1000?

I have a couple more questions for you if you could please answer, since you know what's up

-Midi timecode: is there any way to compensate for latency like you can with midi clock??

-If not, then I would prefer to use midi clock, except that: when recording on my MPC that is synced to midi clock, it stops recording on the MPC everytime the beginning of the loop is reached!


thx man
tstu102
Thread Starter
#28
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
I just tried it with an Mbox and my MPC is varying by 120 samples...
#29
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #29
Gear nut
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 96

trillz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstu102 View Post
-Please don't post those standard instructions found on akai's website!

-If its not my MPC, then why is the internal clock so off in my MPC4000 and not my MPC1000?

I have a couple more questions for you if you could please answer, since you know what's up

-Midi timecode: is there any way to compensate for latency like you can with midi clock??

-If not, then I would prefer to use midi clock, except that: when recording on my MPC that is synced to midi clock, it stops recording on the MPC everytime the beginning of the loop is reached!


thx man
I would like you to use midi clock instead of MTC

but yes it called midi track offsets. it allows you to adjust any midi information that has latency in protools, works for either MTC or midiclock
tstu102
Thread Starter
#30
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
tstu102's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 580

Thread Starter
tstu102 is offline
I cannot use midiclock for the reason described above, unless you know a work around?

thx
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
johnwayne / So much gear, so little time!
20
kindkind / Electronic Music Instruments & Electronic Music Production
12
kindkind / Electronic Music Instruments & Electronic Music Production
1
rodhmos / Mastering forum
7
JPM / Music Computers
0

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.