MPC4000 timing issue put very simply

[Goa-Dubs]

No problem here.Whats up?Maybe its tha funk.....

[godphaser]

Hi,

Take a look at this website:

Innerclock Systems - Precision Midi Clock Din Sync and Tempo Synchronisation Solutions

And what their tests reveal about the 4000:

Akai: MPC-4000/OS Version 1.71

This Test: Pattern Mode/Cycle - Internal Sync

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
1 Samples [0.02ms]

This Test: Song Mode - Internal Sync

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
6000/ 6000/ 5996/ 6001/ 6000/ 5999/ 5996/ 6003/ 5999/ 6000/ 5994/ 6004/ 5999/ 5999/ 5995/ 6004

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
11 Samples [0.23ms]

This Test: Pattern Mode/Cycle - External Sample Accurate Midi Clock

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
6000/ 5998/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 6001/ 5998

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
3 Samples [0.06ms]

This Test: Song Mode - External Sample Accurate Midi Clock

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5998/ 5999/ 6000/ 6000/ 5999/ 5998/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
2 Samples [0.04ms]

[Goa-Dubs]

thanx for that....

[tstu102]

Right, but then why is mine off?

[godphaser]

Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs

thanx for that....

I just tried to answer with facts, sorry if that made you sleepy.

Originally Posted by tstu102

Right, but then why is mine off?

Make the test explained in the link I gave then see if your is way off the numbers indicated in their test.

[Below Zero]

Ur picky

Let it be off

Its been off for years and youve loved the music

Relax

[tstu102]

No I will not let it be off. I'm not looking for opinions here, I'm looking for factual help. I refuse to let this thing play beats before the beginning of the bar and have my duplicating and chopping get all ****ed up. Especially when everything I sequence comes from the MPC and it adds up to 20 tracks sometimes.

I love humanizing, I love things before the beat, I love things after the beat, and I love things on the beat. The point is: I want to decide when and where this happens. Read the article - humanizing is not when "off" happens randomly, but when we humans decide where it happens, and by how much

My MPC1000 was more accurate than this thing. Something must be wrong somewhere.

I will do the test tonight, and try the spdif out as well, but I can clearly see we're talking about at least 100 samples in some cases.

[tstu102]

I just recorded 48 bars and it gets sooo off sync, getting more so and more so the longer I record. it RUSHES like a MF, and I knew this. By the time I get to the 49th bar it is off by 620 MS.

My 1000 NEVER did this (although this thing sounds much better).

litmus test:


0
5996
11996
17996
23996
29996
35992
41992
47992
53992
65992
71988
77988
83988
89984
95984
101984
107984
113984
119984
125980
13980
137980
143976

etc etc.

PLEASE HELP

[trillz]

why dont you sync it and try with timecode?

[tstu102]

believe me, I have. I am trying to narrow the problem down and rule out any possible errors in midi gear.

I'll litmus now, with midi timecode

[trillz]

how are u transfering ur audio into protools btw?

[trillz]

what interface? is it usb or firewire?

[tstu102]

Apogee mini me (master) --> spdif out --> digi002 spdif in -->firewire 400

Next thing I was going to try was switching sound cards, but since the MPC1000 stays in sync on internal mode throughout the whole session, I doubt its my audio in setup.

[tstu102]

Midi Timecode:


0
6000 (yay)
12060
18000
24000
30060
35996
41996
47996
53992
60052
65996
71996
78052
83996

[trillz]

yo, what OS do you have? if u want, you can remote desktop and i can check ur settings in protools.

[trillz]

what version of protools do you have?

[trillz]

to be honest it sounds like u got 2 clocksources going :/

[awhitebeats]

Midi clock or time code is a life saver. Using my 4k as the master and PT10 slaved. Had the same drift and timing issues doing it how you did it. Grab a USB midi sport and do it that way

[tstu102]

PT8.0.1
OS 10.5.8

but but... the MPC1000 stays on point...

how is two clock sources possible?

[tstu102]

I have a midiman, and it varies by 60 samples, as you can see above. which sucks but oh well

[tstu102]

I slave TO pro tools, should I do it the other way?? Seems kind of crazy

[trillz]

Originally Posted by tstu102

PT8.0.1
OS 10.5.8

but but... the MPC1000 stays on point...

how is two clock sources possible?

if u have a MIDI device connected on the thru port, it can cause a echo and the beat clock messages gets sent back into system and there will now be two clock sources

start disconnecting all midi devices and see if it causes issue. I still think its few settings on ur mpc and protools need to be adjusted

[tstu102]

hmm. Well I have midiman sending midi timecode out, and I use the digi002 midi out for sequencing notes because I read you shouldn't have both being sent on the same port...

[trillz]

its either 2 things. its a buffer issue that needs to be corrected or settings. ur mpc is fine if it makes u feel better

[trillz]

I suggest u factory reset ur MPC, then follow these instructions im about to post. you want protools as master correct?

[tstu102]

-Please don't post those standard instructions found on akai's website!

-If its not my MPC, then why is the internal clock so off in my MPC4000 and not my MPC1000?

I have a couple more questions for you if you could please answer, since you know what's up

-Midi timecode: is there any way to compensate for latency like you can with midi clock??

-If not, then I would prefer to use midi clock, except that: when recording on my MPC that is synced to midi clock, it stops recording on the MPC everytime the beginning of the loop is reached!


thx man

[tstu102]

I just tried it with an Mbox and my MPC is varying by 120 samples...

[trillz]

Originally Posted by tstu102

-Please don't post those standard instructions found on akai's website!

-If its not my MPC, then why is the internal clock so off in my MPC4000 and not my MPC1000?

I have a couple more questions for you if you could please answer, since you know what's up

-Midi timecode: is there any way to compensate for latency like you can with midi clock??

-If not, then I would prefer to use midi clock, except that: when recording on my MPC that is synced to midi clock, it stops recording on the MPC everytime the beginning of the loop is reached!


thx man

I would like you to use midi clock instead of MTC

but yes it called midi track offsets. it allows you to adjust any midi information that has latency in protools, works for either MTC or midiclock

[tstu102]

I cannot use midiclock for the reason described above, unless you know a work around?

thx