attn: Tony Belmont - Vocal Chain upgrade Recomendations

[mistaD]

Anybody else can feel free to chime in as well

Okay right now i have a mindprint DTC channel strip with an AKG C414 B-ULS and a RME multiface. I'm satisfied with what i have right now but i want to go to the next level! I dont know if you ever used a DTC Tony(and i'd love to hear your opinion on it) but its a clean pre with clean EQ to me! Im looking for something with a little more color! Im seriously considering the Aurora Audio GTQ2mk III! Im looking for a warm, open, full bass and open top end pre! Would this fit the bill? And how does it compare to the Neve 1073 pre?

For mics again i feel the C414 is very versatile but a little to clean. Im looking for something Fat,warm with presence for r&b and hip hop vocals? Im leaning towards the peluso 2247 LE! How does this compare to say a U87? If i get the 2247 will i still need to eventually grab the U87 down the road? Also im thinking about grabbing a shure SM-7 but wanted to know what it adds in addition to the 2247 and 414? Also i've been doing a lot of searching and have come across the peluso 22 251? In terms of flavors would it make sense to have a 414 clean/thin a 2247 warm and full and a 22 251 warm with high end presence?

Lastly for the converters again im looking for one with some color, a wide open sound and a warm bottom end! Im thinking of grabbing the Lynx Aurora's! Any other front runners that would fit the bill?

If i were to grab one of these immediately which would u say would have the greatest effect on the quality of my music? Im thinking the Pre but was wondering if the peluso would still sound great through my DTC? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[TonyBelmont]

I used a Mindprint pre in the past(not sure the model).... It had a tube that you could see through the front panel... I didn't like it, and it was so long ago I can't remember why...

The GTQ as you may already know is one of my favorite preamps. I could do a whole CD with the GTQ and be perfectly happy (although some things I like to run through an API).... Compared to an original 1073, it is slightly more open sounding, with the same low end rounding, and midrange characteristics.

As far as mics... do you have a vocal booth? If so, then the Peluso 22 47LE is a great choice... It's not the perfect mic for every vocalist, but it will give you a very different tone than the 414. It will be much more colored in the low mids. Grabbing an SM7 wouldn't be a bad idea, then you would have 3 mics that sound completely different, and should have all of your vocal bases covered. The 251 is also a great mic, and I guess you can never have enough mics... But, I think with the 414, SM7, and 47 LE you would be pretty good as far as mics go.

Converter-wise, I wouldn't buy a converter for color. The Lynx Aurora is nice, and the Apogee stuff is good. Even the RME stuff is good. The difference between most of the really good converters on the market is like splitting hairs, it's not like 5 years ago when most of them sounded like crap. Even the 002 has good enough converters to my ears. How many channels of conversion do you need?

I personally would grab a preamp first, as it's going to give you the most dramatic improvement.

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I used a Mindprint pre in the past(not sure the model).... It had a tube that you could see through the front panel... I didn't like it, and it was so long ago I can't remember why...

The GTQ as you may already know is one of my favorite preamps. I could do a whole CD with the GTQ and be perfectly happy (although some things I like to run through an API).... Compared to an original 1073, it is slightly more open sounding, with the same low end rounding, and midrange characteristics.

As far as mics... do you have a vocal booth? If so, then the Peluso 22 47LE is a great choice... It's not the perfect mic for every vocalist, but it will give you a very different tone than the 414. It will be much more colored in the low mids. Grabbing an SM7 wouldn't be a bad idea, then you would have 3 mics that sound completely different, and should have all of your vocal bases covered. The 251 is also a great mic, and I guess you can never have enough mics... But, I think with the 414, SM7, and 47 LE you would be pretty good as far as mics go.

Converter-wise, I wouldn't buy a converter for color. The Lynx Aurora is nice, and the Apogee stuff is good. Even the RME stuff is good. The difference between most of the really good converters on the market is like splitting hairs, it's not like 5 years ago when most of them sounded like crap. Even the 002 has good enough converters to my ears. How many channels of conversion do you need?

I personally would grab a preamp first, as it's going to give you the most dramatic improvement.

Thanks for the reply man! Yea i have a vocal booth but im not sure i have it treated properly! I think the mindprint pre you used was the first envoice..... Right now i have 8 channels with the RME multiface but for the highend AD/DA i'd only need 2 channels short term and 8 channels for later when i move into my new house and will be tracking drum kits! Will i see a huge improvement from the Multiface to the lynx converters? And will i hear a drastic change in my AKG if i run it through the GTQ? Man i really wish you could get your hands on a mindprint DTC because i'd really like to know if the GTQ is a completly different flavor before purchasing! Im in Canada and none of my stores have heard of either the Peluso or the GTQ, so theres no way i can try them out before buying them! How much do you ship to Canada for?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by mistaD

I think the mindprint pre you used was the first envoice.....

Yeah, that's it... that thing sucked.

Originally Posted by mistaD

Right now i have 8 channels with the RME multiface but for the highend AD/DA i'd only need 2 channels short term and 8 channels for later when i move into my new house and will be tracking drum kits! Will i see a huge improvement from the Multiface to the lynx converters?

Will you see a huge improvement... probably not. Like I said before, converters have come a long way in recent years. The RME is good enough for me... the Lynx will be an upgrade, but we're only talking a small increase in quality.

Originally Posted by mistaD

And will i hear a drastic change in my AKG if i run it through the GTQ? Man i really wish you could get your hands on a mindprint DTC because i'd really like to know if the GTQ is a completly different flavor before purchasing!

YES, running the AKG into the GTQ will sound great, and you should immediately hear a difference! The GTQ is an incredible preamp... I've heard that the DTC pre sounds EXACTLY like the pre's on the MOTU 828(which are pretty weak)... The GTQ would be a huge step up.thumbsup

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Yeah, that's it... that thing sucked.

Will you see a huge improvement... probably not. Like I said before, converters have come a long way in recent years. The RME is good enough for me... the Lynx will be an upgrade, but we're only talking a small increase in quality.

YES, running the AKG into the GTQ will sound great, and you should immediately hear a difference! The GTQ is an incredible preamp... I've heard that the DTC pre sounds EXACTLY like the pre's on the MOTU 828(which are pretty weak)... The GTQ would be a huge step up.thumbsup

Thanks a lot man! So do you ship to Canada? And do the API 512's add a different flavor then the GTQ? I could get a pair real cheap off of your site!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by mistaD

Thanks a lot man! So do you ship to Canada? And do the API 512's add a different flavor then the GTQ? I could get a pair real cheap off of your site!

Yes... and yes. The API's would be a more forward, punchy sound. Great for drums, and also good on vocals.

Although, you could also get the A2D which is a cool piece.. and has the added benefit of not only great converters, but the 2:1 button.

Drop me an email and we can talk more. thumbsup

tony@highprofileaudio.com

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Yes... and yes. The API's would be a more forward, punchy sound. Great for drums, and also good on vocals.

Although, you could also get the A2D which is a cool piece.. and has the added benefit of not only great converters, but the 2:1 button.

Drop me an email and we can talk more. thumbsup

tony@highprofileaudio.com

Check your mail Tony!

[dussel]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I've heard that the DTC pre sounds EXACTLY like the pre's on the MOTU 828(which are pretty weak)... The GTQ would be a huge step up.thumbsup

where do you have that information from? I do not know the 828 preamps but I have a DTC and it sounds far from "pretty weak" to my ears.

best
Dussel

edit: btw. I do not know if m. wagener would use a "pretty weak" preamp :-)

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by dussel

where do you have that information from? I do not know the 828 preamps but I have a DTC and it sounds far from "pretty weak" to my ears.

best
Dussel

edit: btw. I do not know if m. wagener would use a "pretty weak" preamp :-)

Dussel, what other pres do you have to compare it too... i'd really like to hear how id does against some of the other high end stuff. I've used it with a 737 and i think it sounds better then the avalon!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by dussel

where do you have that information from? I do not know the 828 preamps but I have a DTC and it sounds far from "pretty weak" to my ears.

best
Dussel

edit: btw. I do not know if m. wagener would use a "pretty weak" preamp :-)

It was in EQ magazine..

[dussel]

Hi,

I have compared it on different occasions with different stuff, lately an API 3124 and some UA 610s. For vocals the DTC was chanceless against the API, but sometimes its a good choice. I use it on snares, OH, stereo percussion or as a bass DI. (The DI is very good IMHO).

As for the comparison with the 828 - I have found the article on the web:

http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?secti...torycode=11448

Now I do not know the guy who wrote the article (may be he's on the board?) and I do not want to question his knowledge on the subject, but it seems strange to me to compare a 2000$ preamp to a mackie board or to a 828 in a magazine article. Furthermore he does not say that they sound exactly the same but that "they are sonically very close" (btw. I'm sure most of my non-audio friends would consider a behringer eurodesk preamp "sonically very close" to a GTQ). The phase problem he mentions later in the article and the fact that he was unable to sort it out does not really increase my confidence in his judgement :-)


best
Dussel

P.S. Tony as you are a gear dealer it should be easy enough for you to organize a sample unit and do a fair comparison with the GTQ. I would be very interested in the results as I consider buying one sooner or later (probably from you :-)). We need more first hand info here in the rap section!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by dussel

P.S. Tony as you are a gear dealer it should be easy enough for you to organize a sample unit and do a fair comparison with the GTQ. I would be very interested in the results as I consider buying one sooner or later (probably from you :-)). We need more first hand info here in the rap section!

I'm not a dealer for the Mindprint line, though...

If Michael Waegner uses it, why don't I just ask him to compare it to a 1073?

But, before I do all that... can you confirm if the preamp is the same as that in the Envoice?

Here's the quote from the article:

The A/B against the 828’s preamps was an entirely different story. The DTC and 828 sounded almost identical, although I preferred the DTC on acoustic piano. To be perfectly honest, I thought the 828’s preamp actually sounded better on acoustic guitar. But like I said, they are sonically very close.

[dussel]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

But, before I do all that... can you confirm if the preamp is the same as that in the Envoice?

No I cannot confirm that... As far as I know the preamp in the DTC is another design, but maybe I'm wrong on this. Anyone from mindprint here?

regards
Dussel