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Unknown Producers: Do they get paid?
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#31
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopularDemand View Post
Nas, Rick Ross, Fabolous, Lil Wayne, Jadakiss, etc. when they are doing free mixtapes nobody is getting paid for beats. Even established names donate free beats for those projects to be a part of it and keep the credits coming. I have been involved with major label artists "original song" mixtapes. Nobody gets paid or expects to. The most common line is, "I need to be a on that."

We did one 2 years ago that wound up being turned into an actual major label release. At that point the label budget opened up and then we went into producer dec mode, advances, contracts.

I was just at a listening party at Quad, NYC earlier this evening for an unsigned artist that gets radio play and has offers on the table. None of those producers listed got paid. She about to go and they know it. They just want to be a part of a project and build relationships towards future business when she gets her deal done.

Lore'l - Leading Lady Hosted by DJ ill Will // Free Mixtape @ DatPiff.com

If those level of producers are donating to mixtapes across the bubble, an unknown cat holding out for some $ to be on a free mixtape is gonna get dismissed quickly and will have burned that bridge forever.

not true I know some big name artists do pay producers for mixtapes cuz even tho they give the mixtapes away it brings them money from shows and producers who have a name get paid...thats just how the business is. They get away not paying no name producers cuz they are just that no name and dont know the business. Do you honestly thing a WELL estasblished producer will give away a beat just cuz its a mixtape? what does he gain for giving away a beat if he is established and a multiplatinum producer. i know for a fact thats not true, I know personally some big name producers from atlanta who charge even for mixtapes..They dont even ask alot of times whats it for thats the artist business they just say "show me the money." I go to atlanta every weekend and have relationships with lots of producers and artists.
#32
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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I don't know man. These mainstream artist like Ross are going out there and making serious bank at shows. And then going to the strip club and throwing 100k at these chicks. But I'm supposed to believe my services should be free? Rap business man. I'm not saying you gotta be kicked back 20 grand. But is it too much to ask for SOMETHING?

The funny thing is, you see mad unknown producers on these mixtapes. But as soon as the albums out, they calling Pharrell, Tim, Lex Lugar, etc. So how do free looks on a mixtape, that it's highly likely you won't get credited on, translate to something substantial? Specifically to Popular Demand, you telling us producers on the come up to just give our work away for free. Well, how do you turn that to actual business? Or should I just not **** with hip hop artists?
#33
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAces View Post
I don't know man. These mainstream artist like Ross are going out there and making serious bank at shows. And then going to the strip club and throwing 100k at these chicks. But I'm supposed to believe my services should be free? Rap business man. I'm not saying you gotta be kicked back 20 grand. But is it too much to ask for SOMETHING?

The funny thing is, you see mad unknown producers on these mixtapes. But as soon as the albums out, they calling Pharrell, Tim, Lex Lugar, etc. So how do free looks on a mixtape, that it's highly likely you won't get credited on, translate to something substantial? Specifically to Popular Demand, you telling us producers on the come up to just give our work away for free. Well, how do you turn that to actual business? Or should I just not **** with hip hop artists?
I don't think it's black & white, it's the game, and it changes at every turn.

The fact is, if you give the milk away for free (in an abstract sense), why pay for the cow?

Take pride in your work, make sure you can back it up, and fight harder than the next guy.
#34
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAces View Post
I don't know man. These mainstream artist like Ross are going out there and making serious bank at shows. And then going to the strip club and throwing 100k at these chicks. But I'm supposed to believe my services should be free? Rap business man. I'm not saying you gotta be kicked back 20 grand. But is it too much to ask for SOMETHING?

The funny thing is, you see mad unknown producers on these mixtapes. But as soon as the albums out, they calling Pharrell, Tim, Lex Lugar, etc. So how do free looks on a mixtape, that it's highly likely you won't get credited on, translate to something substantial? Specifically to Popular Demand, you telling us producers on the come up to just give our work away for free. Well, how do you turn that to actual business? Or should I just not **** with hip hop artists?

bro it's about getting your name out there. Producers on the come up usually get credited on mixtapes, we just don't get paid. I would GLADLY donate my production to a major artists mixtape. And like Popular Demand said if you get a spot on an up & comers mixtape, that's just more in. More recognition. More brand development. People start seeing your name around, calls come in.

If you're worried about the money end of things than you can def. use any "credits" you have on mixtapes to your advantage by selling your production to local artists/people over the internet.
#35
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aproblem View Post
bro it's about getting your name out there. Producers on the come up usually get credited on mixtapes, we just don't get paid. I would GLADLY donate my production to a major artists mixtape. And like Popular Demand said if you get a spot on an up & comers mixtape, that's just more in. More recognition. More brand development. People start seeing your name around, calls come in.

If you're worried about the money end of things than you can def. use any "credits" you have on mixtapes to your advantage by selling your production to local artists/people over the internet.
I understand it's about getting your name out there. I just don't think it's cool that artists with millions of dollars are expecting producers to supply work without being paid anything. But I'm a dreamer I guess lol.

I'm more willing to supply (serious) up and comers with beats because then I'm actually building and developing an artist.
#36
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAces View Post
I understand it's about getting your name out there. I just don't think it's cool that artists with millions of dollars are expecting producers to supply work without being paid anything. But I'm a dreamer I guess lol.

I'm more willing to supply (serious) up and comers with beats because then I'm actually building and developing an artist.
Realize though that at the end of the day, even though it may be dope as ****, your beat is replaceable to them.

word, and you can take it one step further and try n find your own artist to develop and build with.
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#37
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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That brings up the question - how to get these artists the music? Peope suggest twitter and email .. but since everybody's doing that, they probaly get so many wack beats they dont check much!
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#38
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchGeist View Post
That brings up the question - how to get these artists the music? Peope suggest twitter and email .. but since everybody's doing that, they probaly get so many wack beats they dont check much!
When major artists post their email they're either in the studio and need beats right then, or they will have one of their mans weed out the shitty beats (aka go through hundreds of shitty lex wannabe beats).

You can still get in touch w/ artists over twitter/email. I'm not talking Drake or Wayne. But indies, unsigned ppl with buzz..they all accept beats for the most part.

^^Thats only if you dont live in a major city tho. If your in ATL, NYC, MIA, or LA than you should network. the old fashioned way, in person. Go to industry events, shows, whatever..If your active in the music/hip-hop community in one of those cities than the degree of separation between you and most rappers is smaller than you think.
#39
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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I think very few people find success by sitting in their bedroom and mailing out demos and beats. You need to work with local artists and network. The only reason Quest Love noticed 9th Wonder is because 9th produced an indie album (The Listening) that was recorded by a group that was actively touring and getting promoted. If he had just posted his beats in the forum or on something like soundcloud, nobody would have cared. The same 9th beats that were selling for $100 in 2003 would probably fetch a few thousand by 2005. The only difference is that he built up his name with the public. The point is that the quality of what you're doing means very little. There are probably dozens of people in every state that can produce circles around you. You just have to get out there and make a name for yourself.
#40
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aproblem View Post
Realize though that at the end of the day, even though it may be dope as ****, your beat is replaceable to them.

word, and you can take it one step further and try n find your own artist to develop and build with.
That's what I'm mainly focused on now. If you take someone like 40 or Lex Lugar, the sucesses of Drake and Waka are directly tied to them because they help develop the sound that made them famous. That's what I'm trying to do with the artists I'm developing.
#41
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilpeezy View Post
not true I know some big name artists do pay producers for mixtapes cuz even tho they give the mixtapes away it brings them money from shows and producers who have a name get paid...thats just how the business is. They get away not paying no name producers cuz they are just that no name and dont know the business. Do you honestly thing a WELL estasblished producer will give away a beat just cuz its a mixtape? what does he gain for giving away a beat if he is established and a multiplatinum producer. i know for a fact thats not true, I know personally some big name producers from atlanta who charge even for mixtapes..They dont even ask alot of times whats it for thats the artist business they just say "show me the money." I go to atlanta every weekend and have relationships with lots of producers and artists.
I've have been in this industry for a very long time, not just on the weekends, and I will tell you this is not true. You can choose to believe what you want on how it should be I'm just laying down the reality. I have personally been through the process countless times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yosemitesam View Post
I'm curious: what was your next step? If you weren't even getting credits, how did you leverage that experience?
While ghost producing for this multiplat production team, I was around all the time. On the road and all. I got to meet and even know all the top hip hop/r&b artists who they worked with regularly. This was back in the early 90's when one producer, or set of producers, used to do the entire album. So you were around the artists, the managers, the label execs, publicists for weeks at a time and you got to build your relationships.

One thing about the music business is that the lowest of the low exec will move up and become vp or president. The youngest publicists will become "william morris" powerful, and great managers will become high level execs that grab primo sponsorships. One of those managers became one of the top 5 most powerful people in the industry and brought me with him. I had access to every project at the label we were at. And for outside the label I had all my relationships that I built which led to more relationships. When I started my own label I went right back to where I started to get distro.
#42
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #42
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My advice: trust PopularDemand.

About asking money for mixtapes, I'll put it in a simple way: those who are willing to pay for a beat for a mixtape are not "A class" rappers, period. You could engrave this into marble.
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#43
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #43
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It depends, a lot of those unknown nationally have decent markets locally.
#44
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopularDemand View Post
You guys are outside looking in and using logical arguments. That doesn't work in this reality. There are thousands of beat makers. Easy come, easy go. Law of supply and demand. There is no leverage for the unknown.

If you can turn down an opportunity from a "Nas" or "Rick Ross" to use your beat on a free credited mixtape release that's your prerogative. Don't think that another opportunity is going to come along as they are rare.

Guys like Jahlil Beats, Hit Boy, S1, Cardiak, Justice League, Lex Luger, Runners, Inkredibles, Drumma Boy, Shawty Redd, etc. all played the game on mixtape releases for what it is and in a short time they were all getting major checks and paid credits.

I was a non-paid, non-credited ghost producer for a multi platinum production team back in the 90's. So was Kanye West and many others. Dues must be paid one way or another.
Thank you!!! That's all I was saying
#45
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Artists who can pay for beats want them for free, artists who would pay for beats have no money or aren't A list. No wonder so many big producers don't do hip hop anymore.

So honest question, if I give a free beat to Ross for example, then someone else actually wants to buy that beat, would I be wrong to sell it?
#46
11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAces View Post
Artists who can pay for beats want them for free, artists who would pay for beats have no money or aren't A list. No wonder so many big producers don't do hip hop anymore.

So honest question, if I give a free beat to Ross for example, then someone else actually wants to buy that beat, would I be wrong to sell it?
Depends on your contract.
#47
11th April 2012
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OP...the answer here is MOST DEFINITELY! Lots of online producers selling beats over the internet are making good cash and are living off their beats. Its all marketing!! go to LiveOffBeats.com, i think you'll find some good game in there.
#48
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAces View Post
So honest question, if I give a free beat to Ross for example, then someone else actually wants to buy that beat, would I be wrong to sell it?
No. There are no contracts.

Just one example. Don Cannon: T.I. used his beat for Young Jeezy ft Jay-Z "Go Crazy" on a free mixtape (for free) before Jeezy bought the beat from Don Cannon for his Def Jam debut.

But if the song blows up like BMF did for Ross nobody will buy that same beat but they will buy beats from you that sound similar. That's why you get producers making 4 or 5 beats that sound similar that are getting bought.
#49
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopularDemand View Post
I've have been in this industry for a very long time, not just on the weekends, and I will tell you this is not true. You can choose to believe what you want on how it should be I'm just laying down the reality. I have personally been through the process countless times.


While ghost producing for this multiplat production team, I was around all the time. On the road and all. I got to meet and even know all the top hip hop/r&b artists who they worked with regularly. This was back in the early 90's when one producer, or set of producers, used to do the entire album. So you were around the artists, the managers, the label execs, publicists for weeks at a time and you got to build your relationships.

One thing about the music business is that the lowest of the low exec will move up and become vp or president. The youngest publicists will become "william morris" powerful, and great managers will become high level execs that grab primo sponsorships. One of those managers became one of the top 5 most powerful people in the industry and brought me with him. I had access to every project at the label we were at. And for outside the label I had all my relationships that I built which led to more relationships. When I started my own label I went right back to where I started to get distro.
Not stating in every case but in most cases well known producers charge for free mixtapes, take drumma boy who I know personally and grew up with in memphis charges for mxitapes beats no matter who it is. There's one case in point. I know Lex luger charged Juicy J for his mixtape tracks which Juicy J is a grammy award winning Artist and Producer. I don't understand how you think well known producers care about what you do with the beat, but they are providing a service...If you take the beat and use it to make a barnyard cd they dont care. I been in the game 15 years I'm no rookie. I am speaking on what I know personally. Even producers I have close relationships with I have to pay them for a beat and some are guys I grew up with.
#50
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #50
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This is horrible business. No compensation, no contracts, no way to actually assure your best interest is looked after. Learning so much.
#51
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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There is no right or wrong way to sell your product. Do it the way that gets you where you want to be, plain and simple.

If giving everything you ever do is free, but works out in the end, thats all that matters - in the end they will see who's laughing. If charging for every project you touch gets you a fat bank account - then no one should question you.
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#52
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilpeezy View Post
Not stating in every case but in most cases well known producers charge for free mixtapes, take drumma boy who I know personally and grew up with in memphis charges for mxitapes beats no matter who it is. There's one case in point. I know Lex luger charged Juicy J for his mixtape tracks which Juicy J is a grammy award winning Artist and Producer. I don't understand how you think well known producers care about what you do with the beat, but they are providing a service...If you take the beat and use it to make a barnyard cd they dont care. I been in the game 15 years I'm no rookie. I am speaking on what I know personally. Even producers I have close relationships with I have to pay them for a beat and some are guys I grew up with.
I don't know the behind the scenes deals on this subject but I tend to listen to those who have actually done it on a pro level, like PopDemand, other than something a "friend" told them. No established producer is going to tell his "friend" and potential client he gave away a beat for free. I would think the reason he let a major artist use that beat for nothing is to attract more paying situations. Just like no studio manager is going to tell the next potential client that he gave Universal a favorable block rate over the next label or a mix engineer is going to tell his "friend" and potential client he took a cut rate for an indy project. I never heard that girl Pop posted (nice BTW) but she has some pretty established producers on there for free for an unsigned act.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAces View Post
This is horrible business. No compensation, no contracts, no way to actually assure your best interest is looked after. Learning so much.
All industries where you have to work your way in have dues paying aspects. The major engineers of today and past history all started out doing "unfair" things as interns and assistants. Hollywood is worse. If you want to be in a fair industry, go to college, get a degree or two, go to an interview, and get a "real" job.
#53
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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First off, if I wanted to not do this music shit I wouldn't. I am to deep in this and have put in to much time to just quit and get a "real job." At the same time, I think these "business practices" occur because too many people are willing to not even speak on how ****ed up they are. Just shut their mouths, bend over and accept.

I can deal with the people not paying an extent, but no contracts really? that's beyond unfair, or "paying dues" that's just stupid and making easier to get ****ed. There were many things that people deemed unacceptable and unfair practices. And people said something about it and acted out against it and they changed.
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#54
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAces View Post
First off, if I wanted to not do this music shit I wouldn't. I am to deep in this and have put in to much time to just quit and get a "real job." At the same time, I think these "business practices" occur because too many people are willing to not even speak on how ****ed up they are. Just shut their mouths, bend over and accept.

I can deal with the people not paying an extent, but no contracts really? that's beyond unfair, or "paying dues" that's just stupid and making easier to get ****ed. There were many things that people deemed unacceptable and unfair practices. And people said something about it and acted out against it and they changed.
Why sign a binding contract if you are not getting compensation?

I understand. If you feel you are the one who will change the industry hold tight to your convictions and maybe you will. History, however, says that will not happen. There are just too many people waiting to take that opportunity in your place.

There are successful movie makers who hit it big with their first movie. They get screwed on the back end by the distribution deal and no portion of that $100 million gross will come their way. But, it allows that movie maker to cut newer major deals that favor him because of his new track record. ie: James Cameron.
#55
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaMix View Post
I don't know the behind the scenes deals on this subject but I tend to listen to those who have actually done it on a pro level, like PopDemand, other than something a "friend" told them. No established producer is going to tell his "friend" and potential client he gave away a beat for free. I would think the reason he let a major artist use that beat for nothing is to attract more paying situations. Just like no studio manager is going to tell the next potential client that he gave Universal a favorable block rate over the next label or a mix engineer is going to tell his "friend" and potential client he took a cut rate for an indy project. I never heard that girl Pop posted (nice BTW) but she has some pretty established producers on there for free for an unsigned act.
You missed one thing. Many artists purchase beats for their real albums and those songs wind up not making the album or the artist looses their deal. Those leftover songs get released on free mixtapes.
#56
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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A contract can be as simple as an agreement stating the track(s) used, the manner in which the can be used (Track whatever can be used for promotional purposes), what type of credit will be given and what is the recourse if the track is to be used for commercial use. Simple. Nothing overly binding about it.

As for the movie example, it's a whole different story. James Cameron was probably paid something to do that movie. Maybe not all of what he deserved but he was given something. Second, the director of a movie name is prominently featured during a movie at least twice and sometimes even in commercials and promos. A producer doing something for a mixtape has no quarentee they will recieve proper credit. Look at the back of Cabin Fever by Wiz Khalifa:



Where's the production credit?
#57
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
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Some of you guys need to be businessmen and ask tough questions.

Example: "If I do this, what do I get in return?"
If answer is "Ill consider you again when I get big" or something lame like that, then move on.

Example "Can you put that in writing?"

etc...

Be a businessman or work for free..its up to you.
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#58
11th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAces View Post
Look at the back of Cabin Fever by Wiz Khalifa:



Where's the production credit?
Don't know why they did that. But all the press releases had the productions credits:

1. Phone Numbers (feat. Trae and Big Sean) (prod. Drumma Boy)
2. Cabin Fever (prod. Lex Luger)
3. GangBang (feat. Big Sean) (prod. Lex Luger)
4. Errday (feat. Juicy J) (prod. Lex Luger)
5. Taylor Gang (feat. Chevy Woods) (prod. Lex Luger)
6. Hustlin’ (prod. Lex Luger)
7. Middle Of U (feat. Chevy Woods) (prod. Lex Luger)
8. WTF (prod. Lex Luger)
9. Homicide (feat. Chevy Woods) (prod. Justice League)
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#59
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
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I'm thinking Kush and OJ by Wiz for this:

The mixtape has a lot of different producers: do they get paid when Wiz performs the song in concerts? Performance royalties right?
#60
12th April 2012
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I will just say this. A lot of cats are not selling albums and don't want people to really know they are saving costs where they can. I have had credible rappers give me the "opportunity" deal for sure. I have made some choices to work for free and I will admit it. It paid me back pretty quickly at times, other times, didn't do a thing. That's fine, that's my decision. I say I take 1 in 10 of those "opportunities" at best.

I have had established artists legitimately say they would never pay someone like me until I had a track record. That isn't to say they didn't want to work with me and didn't keep the conversation going. Those are the artists that are fun to see down the line, especially when you start working to people they are close to.

Now, it's different when you are talking about really high profile albums/artists but that doesn't mean you get a fair deal either. Many labels don't pay unknowns much at all. I say take the money and run though.

I barely have a career and I am far from a professional beat maker/producer (meaning full time work and getting paid enough to live off it) and the more I have on my plate, the easier it is to make money. When you can turn someone down, knowing you have another opportunity, that's where things tend to work. Ironically, the small amount of work I did for free is usually what allows me to do that.

I am not trying to be negative but a bunch of cats will try to use your work for free and I would be lying if I said differently. I think a lot of people on both sides don't want to admit to it. My only advice is do what feels right, because when it feels right, I tend to make money elsewhere and quick. When it feels wrong, it tends to not do anything for me. When I try to negotiate with someone who makes it clear they are not paying, I am not going to say the success rate is high. That's reality, play your cards they way you want to play them.

Note: I am not implying that you have to work for free to make it or that everyone is going to try these tactics but I don't want to downplay it or act it doesn't happen. I am talking albums, on a mixtape, you may not know you are on it until you hear it lol
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