Why are presets so looked down upon?

[SmokinAces]

drum and jdsowa further prove the reason for me writing this post. Somehow you're not an artists or not creating because you use presets. Matter of fact you should be "ashamed" to do so. :? Guess they forgot we're actually in this to make great songs not just some cool sounds that we can brag about.

"Hey you made a cake shaped like the Eiffel Tower, but you used store bought frosting. You didn't create art."

[KT1]

Originally Posted by SmokinAces

drum and jdsowa further prove the reason for me writing this post. Somehow you're not an artists or not creating because you use presets. Matter of fact you should be "ashamed" to do so. :? Guess they forgot we're actually in this to make great songs not just some cool sounds that we can brag about.

"Hey you made a cake shaped like the Eiffel Tower, but you used store bought frosting. You didn't create art."

I think we need to stop taking everything people say as 100% literal. The message is clear. The point is clear. You're correct using presets does not impact the so called art form. Making music in a format - utilising specific sounds to ensure it fits that format for the sole purpose of making something that sounds like it will sell of meets current trends is what these guys meant. I'm not convinced this comment was specifically aimed at you and you're music. It was more a generalisation.

[JordanLoder]

knowing your pre-sets is a great way to get you close to the sounds you are looking for, and quick. one of the things that's been overwhelming to me is the absolute hugeness of it all.

admittedly the process below may seem overcomplicated and time consuming, (because it is-hahha!) but it has really helped me out~

to become familiar with the presets i like and don't like, i create a new session with the instrument active to record midi (also bouncing to an audio track for recording at the same time). then i leave my mic hot and record all three things at once.

I start on the first preset of the instrument and then just click through them one at a time, playing my keyboard and making comments over the mic... once i'm done i go through the session and place markers near all the ones i liked. then i chop these up into one track and bounce this file of favorites to an mp3 which i listen to while working around the house, driving, or jogging.

it's really helped me isolate the sounds that are useful to me, and saved me the time of blindly flicking through presets and not knowing where to start.

[LimpyLoo]

Originally Posted by JordanLoder

I start on the first preset of the instrument and then just click through them one at a time, playing my keyboard and making comments over the mic... once i'm done i go through the session and place markers near all the ones i liked. then i chop these up into one track and bounce this file of favorites to an mp3 which i listen to while working around the house, driving, or jogging.

Can you post one of these preset sessions? That'd be awesome, and it'd lighten this thread up a bit.

[Jeezo]

Originally Posted by beat you down

i have no beef with presets, BUT...

i do have beef with ""me too"" beat makers who all are using the same presets so they all sound alike.

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by LimpyLoo

The idea of mastery is...novel to some, let's say.

Some people just like to click the squares on the little grid. Which is, you know, fine or whatever.

I just wish people would take some pride in their craft.

[/self-righteous rant]

Man I used to be the same way. My level of **** just kinda dropped dramatically in the last 3 months. I am at a point of **** it lol. Creating presets shows your skill but doesn't always make a song better. The most important thing about all of this music shit is the song that comes out at the end of it all. You don't need the perfect mix, the best new age tools, the best vocalist, every tool known to man ect. All that is important is that it sounds good. You have to know how to make something that sounds good and appealing to people. I saw in a video a year ago where someone said pop is all about craftsmanship and I am starting to see that's what modern music is about. Its not about being unique or showing off how dope you are but the skill is in making something that a lot of people like and staying in that lane. I only say pop because I am playing with pop music again.

[LimpyLoo]

Originally Posted by KevWest

Man I used to be the same way. My level of **** just kinda dropped dramatically in the last 3 months. I am at a point of **** it lol. Creating presets shows your skill but doesn't always make a song better. The most important thing about all of this music shit is the song that comes out at the end of it all. You don't need the perfect mix, the best new age tools, the best vocalist, every tool known to man ect. All that is important is that it sounds good. You have to know how to make something that sounds good and appealing to people. I saw in a video a year ago where someone said pop is all about craftsmanship and I am starting to see that's what modern music is about. Its not about being unique or showing off how dope you are but the skill is in making something that a lot of people like and staying in that lane. I only say pop because I am playing with pop music again.

Would you like some thousand island dressing with that word salad?

Okay, I guess it's time for me to unsubscribe.

[drumdrumdrumdrum]

Originally Posted by SmokinAces

drum and jdsowa further prove the reason for me writing this post. Somehow you're not an artists or not creating because you use presets. Matter of fact you should be "ashamed" to do so. :? Guess they forgot we're actually in this to make great songs not just some cool sounds that we can brag about.

"Hey you made a cake shaped like the Eiffel Tower, but you used store bought frosting. You didn't create art."

I think you have made up your mind and your trying to prove something by putting words in my mouth. I never said anything like that, but my first joking post may have miss lead you.

I've layer presets many times. I regularly use a preset sine wave or square wave when I'm patching. Really, what is a preset anyway? Even Daft Punk use presets at their shows, it's their own preset but like ever successful artist you have to become a cover artist of yourself eventually. Presets are great! Somedays a quick burger for lunch is just what is needed. You can eat burgers everyday, but there are consequences.

What's the most important thing from this thread? The consensus is: You must write music first and formost for yourself. Do not worry about what anyone else thinks. If your music moves you and it comes from your heart, you will find an audience.

All the best.

[beat you down]

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by LimpyLoo

Would you like some thousand island dressing with that word salad?

Okay, I guess it's time for me to unsubscribe.

what kind of jack ass complains about having to read on a forum. wait you are that kind of jack ass aren't you.

[aproblem]

Just because you can create a custom sound doesn't mean you can make a good beat. At the end of the day nobody cares if you took 5 hours tweaking a sine/square/triangle/whatever.

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by aproblem

Just because you can create a custom sound doesn't mean you can make a good beat. At the end of the day nobody cares if you took 5 hours tweaking a sine/square/triangle/whatever.

very true. Though I would say at the same time just because you can make a good beat doesn't mean you can make good songs.

[Methlab]

this is like the FL studio stuff.."IS FL Studio ok for beats?"

It doesn't matter. I think there are so many vsts now that people who are not as good at synthesis keep getting more and more so they can find the magic one.

There are no shortcuts, you just have to mess around with your gear and the time invested will yield great sounds..either from tweaked presets or to where you studied them so much that now you can understand and build your own sounds.

I look at it like I just bought a new guitar pedal and amp..I am going to twist knobs, try the recommended presets..just do whatever I can to learn the gear and make it my own.

[RonGherkins]

I found a preset made by a third party a while ago that's so good you could build an album around it.

Depends on the preset I'd say, and how many people have access to it at the time to a lesser extent.

[Elogical4now]

If your a genius sound designer...Great !!!

If you only use presets...Fantastic !!!

What is more important is how you utilize and arrange the sounds to complete a good song.

Listeners don't care what software, daw, MPC, keyboard, etc. that you use.

[millennial]

The inherent problem with relying only on presets is that they make the assumption that every source sounds exactly the same, and thus warrants the same treatment (i.e. - a kick drum preset for an EQ).

Presets for more creative effects make more sense for me - whereas things like EQ and compression often warrant a more "hands on" approach. Also - sometimes sticking presets intended for one source on an entirely different source can yield really cool results!

That being said, sometimes presets are a great starting point. I'll often start out with a preset, and tweak from there.

Jason

[smokingrobot]

my only beef w/ presets is they dont always apply 100% to what I'm trying to do. Sometimes they're great jumpoffs, but more often than not, they kind of half work. Sometimes a synth patch preset sounds awesome for what i'm doing - hey, ez game, i'll use it. Sometimes the "Snare" EQ preset does all the work i need it to, but its often just a sometimes.

moreso w/ synth patches than mix presets (since its more common you open up a synth VST and there's a million and one preset sounds, whereas a general 7 band EQ might have 10-12 rather specific EQ preset settings), i prefered to learn how to make my own synth sounds rather than scroll through a shit ton of presets only to find out none of them nail the sound i want.

[Muser]

Thing to watch out for with presets is they can have an impact in helping define what & how you play something.

the response and characteristics of the preset aren't always the best for your purposes or goals.
and once you've recorded (even as midi), simply changing presets is going to be likely to
get you even further away from your original goal than get you closer.

if the preset is in the ballpark, consider tweaking it or enhancing it, rather than
change presets. then consider playing it again with the tweaked version.

[Tha Govna]

"Why are presets so looked down upon?"

Because people are snobs and jealous you made something cool.

There really isn't any other explaination for someone to look down on something that has no bearing on what they do.

It's a way for them to feel better about what it is they're doing.

"Hey, look what I did! And I did it without preeeeesets! Na, na, na, boo, boo! I'm better than you!"

It's like people who look down on people who do sample based music because they think they're talentless hacks who can't make music unless they stitch and/or straight up loop together other peoples' works over some boring ass drums.

[KT1]

Originally Posted by Tha Govna

"Why are presets so looked down upon?"

Because people are snobs and jealous you made something cool.

There really isn't any other explaination for someone to look down on something that has no bearing on what they do.

It's a way for them to feel better about what it is they're doing.

"Hey, look what I did! And I did it without preeeeesets! Na, na, na, boo, boo! I'm better than you!"

It's like people who look down on people who do sample based music because they think they're talentless hacks who can't make music unless they stitch and/or straight up loop together other peoples' works over some boring ass drums.

It's all about context. Barely anyone feels this way on gs. If I get a thread asking what synth to buy for a preset I will always suggest learning how to create it from the synths you have available. That's not hating on people. It's offering good advice and promoting learning. Sure presets can work. I will continue to promote understanding over the use of presets.

To be clear that isn't to say I look down on anyone. This was the point that drove this discussion. Now the thread has. Completely lost its.context.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Gearslutz App

[3rd Degree]

I arguably almost always use presets but also arguably never use presets. I rarely do no tweeking but my tweaking is usually light, just change a few things to make it sound better or more playable. I rarely create my own patches however, I rarely go that deep into real synthesis.

Like many said, I feel like a piano, a strat, etc, are basically presets. However, they are not always recorded with the same mics, much less the same exact room, or even a similar room. I make adjustments to make it fit the song, or may make adjustments from the start, to dictate the sound of a song.

Then you also have effects processing. In my mind, running a preset through various effects can be just as effective as changing paramenters, if not more, assuming you picked a good preset to start with.


I have been around amazing players who could use the most generic of presets and you would never even think about what sound patch they used as it just wouldn't even come to mind. I have heard people who can make amazing sounds from scratch that are crazy too but when played well, they don't really stand out as super interesting compared to the guy who is playing all presets.

So, I guess my real point here is that most people would benefit much more off of learning to play better and picking out better sounds (preset or not), rather than becoming masters at synths. That is purely my opinion and it includes myself. Presets are like loops, they are only boring/uncreative to me if they are a short cut, but when used creatively, they can sound absolutely amazing.

[Cabrone]

Make your own damn sounds, simple.

what exatly is the point of having a large library of VST's if you do not use any of the sounds that came with it

Think you've got it twisted, you don't buy VSTs/Synths for their presets(well, noobs might), you buy them for their capabilities. Personally I see presets as examples of the capabilities of the synth, not what I got it for.

Doesn't bother me if you or anyone else uses them and makes good music but it doesn't make me think much of you as a producer. Sound design/Synth programming is something every producer should know IMO.

[kojo]

Considering Grammy winning and multi platinum records are done with presets all the time, you get no extra brownie points if your record flopped but u spent hours tweaking a synth from scratch. I'd say it's quite silly to even worry about it. The public cares about SONGs anyway. As long as the melody, mix, and artist is on point then who really cares lol

[PopularDemand]

Originally Posted by kojo

Considering Grammy winning and multi platinum records are done with presets all the time, you get no extra brownie points if your record flopped but u spent hours tweaking a synth from scratch. I'd say it's quite silly to even worry about it. The public cares about SONGs anyway. As long as the melody, mix, and artist is on point then who really cares lol

Yep!

Classic records have been made with the same guitar, drums, bass, piano. It's not what's you use it's how you use it. I honestly can't recall any of the major producers and musicians I have come across in my travels making their own sounds from scratch. Some may mono out a sound or remove the effects but that's as far as it goes.

This is a creative industry so be all means be as creative as you can but no one cares if you made a string sound from scratch. You better make a hit with that "from scratch" string sound because the song is all that matters.

[LimpyLoo]

Originally Posted by kojo

Considering Grammy winning and multi platinum records are done with presets all the time, you get no extra brownie points if your record flopped but u spent hours tweaking a synth from scratch. I'd say it's quite silly to even worry about it. The public cares about SONGs anyway. As long as the melody, mix, and artist is on point then who really cares lol

The public cares about good sounds.

No, you don't get brownie points for anything (making your own sounds or mastering an instrument or what have you) but all things being equal you're much more likely to make good-sounding stuff if you have some mastery of the tools you use.

Presets are fine, except when they aren't.

Some people use presets even when they sound really bad, and make no attempt to improve them.

Yeah, of course you can make great music with presets. But keep in mind this thread was posted by OP after negative (solicited) criticism of his/her music, whereby multiple people said "the synth(s) ruined it for me."

There is a difference between doing what is best for your music and laziness. Using presets should be the former, not the latter.

Originally Posted by PopularDemand

Yep!

Classic records have been made with the same guitar, drums, bass, piano. It's not what's you use it's how you use it. I honestly can't recall any of the major producers and musicians I have come across in my travels making their own sounds from scratch. Some may mono out a sound or remove the effects but that's as far as it goes.

This is a creative industry so be all means be as creative as you can but no one cares if you made a string sound from scratch. You better make a hit with that "from scratch" string sound because the song is all that matters.

[kojo]

Originally Posted by LimpyLoo

The public cares about good sounds.

No, you don't get brownie points for anything (making your own sounds or mastering an instrument or what have you) but all things being equal you're much more likely to make good-sounding stuff if you have some mastery of the tools you use.

Presets are fine, except when they aren't.

Some people use presets even when they sound really bad, and make no attempt to improve them.

Yeah, of course you can make great music with presets. But keep in mind this thread was posted by OP after negative (solicited) criticism of his/her music, whereby multiple people said "the synth(s) ruined it for me."

There is a difference between doing what is best for your music and laziness. Using presets should be the former, not the latter.

Cool! I think were agreeing on the same thing. What you're saying covers the melody and the mix part I was mentioning. Sorry if that wasn't clear

[TheArk]

Originally Posted by SmokinAces

Actually Illangelo admitted on his own Tumblr some time back that he has a large amount of VST's, analog synths, etc. And my point is not so much that they don't ever create their own sounds. But if you think every single synth they use is something they made from scratch (not a preset that they tweaked a little bit) then you are not being truthful to yourself.

can you tell me what vsts you are looking into buying. These Large vsts libraries you speak of. You knocked sense into me. I was learning how to make synths, then i realized, all i want to do is make music.

[smokingrobot]

Originally Posted by kojo

Considering Grammy winning and multi platinum records are done with presets all the time, you get no extra brownie points if your record flopped but u spent hours tweaking a synth from scratch. I'd say it's quite silly to even worry about it. The public cares about SONGs anyway. As long as the melody, mix, and artist is on point then who really cares lol

This argument carries the ENORMOUS assumption that a preset will fit within the context of your song.

That is entirely too large of an assumption.

I forget where i read it, btu someone on this board summed up presets very nicely basically zeroing in on the fact that they are constructed w/o context.

The analogy is - say you have a song that "requires" a heavy metal guitar. I bring you an assortment of awesome sounding acoustic guitars (representing the Preset). The acoustic guitars sound great by themself! Shit, 8 other producers got a grammy using those acoustic guitars! But guess what? Not a single one of those acoustic guitars works with your track. Get it?

Put another way:
But, you have another song - and guess what? Magically one of those acoustic guitars seems to really work well. Or maybe 7 sound awful, but the nylon string acoustic is great, however maybe it needs subtle adjustment before fitting aesthetically within your other song, perhaps some subtle changes in microphones used to record the sound make it better than the mic i brought for that nylon stringed acoustic.

[kojo]

Originally Posted by smokingrobot

This argument carries the ENORMOUS assumption that a preset will fit within the context of your song.

That is entirely too large of an assumption.

I forget where i read it, btu someone on this board summed up presets very nicely basically zeroing in on the fact that they are constructed w/o context.

The analogy is - say you have a song that "requires" a heavy metal guitar. I bring you an assortment of awesome sounding acoustic guitars (representing the Preset). The acoustic guitars sound great by themself! Shit, 8 other producers got a grammy using those acoustic guitars! But guess what? Not a single one of those acoustic guitars works with your track. Get it?

Put another way:
But, you have another song - and guess what? Magically one of those acoustic guitars seems to really work well. Or maybe 7 sound awful, but the nylon string acoustic is great, however maybe it needs subtle adjustment before fitting aesthetically within your other song, perhaps some subtle changes in microphones used to record the sound make it better than the mic i brought for that nylon stringed acoustic.

Im simply making a point that records get made all the time with presets and most listeners dont care how it was done.I'm not saying the entire record must be done with presets...at least in my case much of the FX are taken out of the tracks and the engineer uses far better tools to take things to another level (ex: his expensive lexicon reverb).