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Snare Panned Left Trend(?)
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troy rustle
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#1
16th March 2012
Old 16th March 2012
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Snare Panned Left Trend(?)

Well, not really happening enough to be considered a "trend" but I've noticed some heavy snare panning in a few recent hiphop songs. And it just happens to always be panned Left. To be honest it kind of annoys me, but I also get used it after awhile.

I just don't totally understand why someone would want this in the first place? Anyone have any insight, especially if anyone out there actually worked on any of these tracks? Can't say I've been logging data on 'snare panning in rap music' for the past couple decades, but it just doesn't seem like the "right" thing to do, at least as far as hiphop goes.

all youtube links...

Rick Ross - I Love My B*tches
i think i've heard just blaze do it in some other more recent songs too. he's sort of got the live drummer feel going, so I'm guessing he's just trying emphasize that?

Lil Wayne - Mirror
kind of subtle to point of indiscernible in the youtube version... but it sounds panned in high quality... at least a lot of stereo snare action.

Jeezy - FAME
sounds like the whole break got the haas effect treatment so i'm just hearing it out of the left.

Also think I've heard some pretty extreme snare panning on at least more than one tyler, the creator produced beats but that kind of weirdness sort of makes more sense coming from him than it does in some of these other major pop productions.
#2
16th March 2012
Old 16th March 2012
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Panning the snare just gives more of a feel of the drums being recorded, rather than programmed. So if the Snare is off to the left, the Hi-Hat might be off to the right. It does work better for actual drum recording though, rather than just panning a programmed drum.
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17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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It could be that people are using the haas effect to add width to the snare by either manually dragging the snare panned to the right slightly or by using something like the sample delay plugin in Logic.

The reason I say this is because I have attempted the same and decided against it because it sounded like it was panned.

I haven't listened to the tracks so I am just going by what you've said an my past experience.
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17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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I was just listening to "John" by Wayne and Ross and thinking about how the snare sounds like it's coming from the right...
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17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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Panned a little sounds cool, but I've never tried hard panning the snare if thats what your talking about. I'm all for creative panning though trying to find new balances in the mix that sound interesting and different.
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17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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i always pan my snare a little, cause in a real kit, the snare never sits directly over the kick drum.
never too drastically though.
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17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
I was just listening to "John" by Wayne and Ross and thinking about how the snare sounds like it's coming from the right...
That song and "She Will" have some weird panning, not just the snares... Add "Yonkers" by Tyler the Creator to the list, snare is totally panned to the left.
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17th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damien907 View Post
i always pan my snare a little, cause in a real kit, the snare never sits directly over the kick drum.
never too drastically though.

That's not correct, except in perspective when a drummer plays live with a band. And at that point, it's a visual cue, not an auditory one.

But the actual alignment of a drum kit is at an angle which bisects the ride and the crash and places the snare in line with the kick.
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17th March 2012
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Even though the snare on a real kit is off to the left a little, the listeners in the crowd from hundreds of feet away wouldn't hear that little difference in a live acoustic concert. They'd just hear the drum kit as 1 whole instrument being in the center, the guitar as 1 instrument on the right/left, singer in the center, etc.
troy rustle
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17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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Yonkers has some HARD panning! With Tyler though it sort of makes sense (also noticed it on the "Ned Flander" song). Without knowing his reasoning behind it I could guess it might have just sounded kind of off and grimey to him.

Hearing it on a Just Blaze track though just struck me as being a little different.

Storyville, that's cool you replied - definitely like to hear your opinion on it. As long as I'm not getting you confused with someone else the article you wrote on rap vocal mixing is actually something that got me interested in listening for this stuff in the first place.
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17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
That's not correct, except in perspective when a drummer plays live with a band. And at that point, it's a visual cue, not an auditory one.

But the actual alignment of a drum kit is at an angle which bisects the ride and the crash and places the snare in line with the kick.
yeah, thats what i meant.. i think?? haha anyway, i like to pan my snares a bit, i always do my panning from an audience perspective.
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17th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy rustle View Post
Yonkers has some HARD panning! With Tyler though it sort of makes sense (also noticed it on the "Ned Flander" song). Without knowing his reasoning behind it I could guess it might have just sounded kind of off and grimey to him.

Hearing it on a Just Blaze track though just struck me as being a little different.

Storyville, that's cool you replied - definitely like to hear your opinion on it. As long as I'm not getting you confused with someone else the article you wrote on rap vocal mixing is actually something that got me interested in listening for this stuff in the first place.
That's me. I imagine there's a few reasons. With Just Blaze I imagine it has something to do with the "realistic" drum imagine - which is only realistic if you happen to mic a real kit that way - otherwise it's just a visual thing (but hey, whatever, what we see is what we hear). With some of the other tracks I imagine it falls in line with either trying to make more room for the vocals so the track can be as loud as possible, or getting a little more width from the track. Or in the case of "Yonkers" it might just be to add tension to the mix and make it sound a little crazy. Same with "John".
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17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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It's because all those gangbangers listen to those tracks riding their cars. In the U.K. the snares are probably panned to the right.
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18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Hard panning a critical song element is an absolute mistake in my opinion. A minor shift in panning can make a wider feel in the track on stereo speakers. However, you can't assume that your listener is going to be hearing the cut on stereo speakers. That means you will have a completely different balance to the levels if it is played back in mono. I never do any extreme panning with an element that is critical to the feel / groove of the song (bass, kick, snare, lead..ect..).

As a side note, that Rick Ross song has the most annoying vocal sampling in the background that I think I have ever heard. Misogynistic lyrics aside, that one thing totally ruins any chance the song had with me.
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19th March 2012
Old 19th March 2012
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I never really try to pan the snare more than little bit because I feel it messes with the feel of the track but the above examples were done without me noticing something was "wrong". I guess that goes to show that there are no rules as long as it sounds good.

2 questions:

1) As long as you're not messing with the phase (like widening plugs, M/S) or using extreme delays for the haas effect, everything should fold to mono pretty nicely no?

2) Who the hell still listens to music on a Mono system?? Specially in the hiphop world.. There has to be such a small minority that use anything in mono that to decide critical elements in a mix based on how it will translate is not very important. In my option of course...

I think Dave said something similar in one of the episodes of Pensado's Place but im not sure.
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20th March 2012
Old 20th March 2012
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Maybe it's just me but I find it super annoying. I have done it rarely, but not to one side. If I am layering 3 snares that are pretty similar, I may pan one 5% Left, one Center, one 5% right. It gives a bit of movement with my "fills" or "break downs" as I don't always have each snare hit at the same time or velocity all the time.

I have had what I consider to be mono elements (especially snares and kicks) panned in songs where I wasn't involved in mixing. I know at the end of the day it is not my decision but I can say I was honestly disappointed.
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