Tempest.... Linndrum 2.... What's the deal?
Old 6th March 2012
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Tempest.... Linndrum 2.... What's the deal?

Hey all,

Just inquiring about the Tempest/Linndrum 2 from DSI. I'm thinking about buying a tempest, but I've been seeing these speculations about Linndrum 2. A recent interview with Roger Linn revealed that he's "keeping it under wraps" for now, but then I did some research and found out that it used to be on Sweetwater... what's the deal with this? I haven't been around in this game for so long, as I only started producing a year ago, so I haven't been too hip on the history.

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks.
Old 6th March 2012
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The Linndrum will be more like an MPC, which Roger Linn originally helped design.

The tempest is more of just a drum and synth machine. It's still a pretty new machine though, and most of us don't really know ALL that it can do. There might be some tempest users on here that can give their opinion though.
Old 6th March 2012
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Linndrum 2 will not sample at all. Roger linn told me personally. He said the tempest is mostly what he had in mind for linn drum 2 but without the synth. He said it will not sample but will LOAD ?
Old 6th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireworks View Post
Linndrum 2 will not sample at all. Roger linn told me personally. He said the tempest is mostly what he had in mind for linn drum 2 but without the synth. He said it will not sample but will LOAD ?
That's along the same line he told me via email. It wouldn't "sample" in the traditional "sample input" method. I assume a USB port or something. I do believe it will be a more sample focused machine that focuses on realtime performance manipulation similar to the Tempest.

The reason it was on SweetWater at one point is because initially, LinnDrum2 was going to be a sample AND synthesis machine. Linn and Smith decided it would be better to just make seperate products. So Dave releases Tempest and Roger has yet to reveal what he's working on.
Old 6th March 2012
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Dude save your money ...that's what I think. Nothing a keyboard and daw can't do.
Old 6th March 2012
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Originally Posted by ForWerd View Post
That's along the same line he told me via email. It wouldn't "sample" in the traditional "sample input" method. I assume a USB port or something. I do believe it will be a more sample focused machine that focuses on realtime performance manipulation similar to the Tempest.

The reason it was on SweetWater at one point is because initially, LinnDrum2 was going to be a sample AND synthesis machine. Linn and Smith decided it would be better to just make seperate products. So Dave releases Tempest and Roger has yet to reveal what he's working on.
Gotcha. Thank you for clearing that up for me; that's exactly what I was looking for. I am excited to see what Roger has in store, but the Tempest seems like the most versatile drum machine I've ever seen..
Old 6th March 2012
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Originally Posted by ForWerd View Post
That's along the same line he told me via email. It wouldn't "sample" in the traditional "sample input" method. I assume a USB port or something. I do believe it will be a more sample focused machine that focuses on realtime performance manipulation similar to the Tempest.

The reason it was on SweetWater at one point is because initially, LinnDrum2 was going to be a sample AND synthesis machine. Linn and Smith decided it would be better to just make seperate products. So Dave releases Tempest and Roger has yet to reveal what he's working on.
Gotcha. Thank you for clearing that up for me; that's exactly what I was looking for. I am excited to see what Roger has in store, but the Tempest seems like the most versatile drum machine I've ever seen..
Old 6th March 2012
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If you feel like a challenge go with the Octatrack and save yourself some change.Just have to think differently than the MPC style in programming it.Not a lot to see on youtube either that really conveys the potential for beats and hiphop style.I certainly would not be hanging on the LD2.
Old 6th March 2012
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Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
If you feel like a challenge go with the Octatrack and save yourself some change.Just have to think differently than the MPC style in programming it.Not a lot to see on youtube either that really conveys the potential for beats and hiphop style.I certainly would not be hanging on the LD2.
Yeah, I just checked his website again and saw a recent announcement that said it won't be coming out anytime soon. Octatrack looks interesting, though. I think that the Tempest and MPC 3000 would be a formidable combination, however, given their different capabilities and same creator. We'll see what happens!
Old 6th March 2012
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the tempest rocks fam

i can't love it anymore than i do!

the synthesis half is heavy (as in not easy to understand) but it is worth it...i feel like the machine is actually an INSTRUMENT because you can get just about ANY sound with it...

much can be done with just layering the included samples (this is primarily my method)... with using the oscillators to fill out and fatten the sounds.

i have owned an mpc 60, 2000, 200xl, asr-x and sp-1200 and i think this is the logical progression.

i'm not trying to sample anymore...but if i do i still have logic with exs24...tempest gives me the drums i need and want

it is still a beta machine...but it hasnt stopped me from cranking out beats
Old 6th March 2012
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Originally Posted by voorhee View Post
Dude save your money ...that's what I think. Nothing a keyboard and daw can't do.
Drum machines are fun to use though. That can't be really said of the computer.
Old 6th March 2012
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mp3
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Originally Posted by Fireworks View Post
Linndrum 2 will not sample at all. Roger linn told me personally. ... He said it will not sample but will LOAD ?
So... a hardware sample player?

WTF man? I feel violated or something... I mean its bad enough you got Dave Smith on the squad and you can't even stick one single solitary analog chip in the box... But no sampling? I don't see a point. Or a market...
Old 6th March 2012
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huh? tempest has analog curtis dcos, filter, compression, distortion... the whole signal pathway is pretty much analog

btw the original linndrum didn't sample, this will be linndrum 2 not MPC 3000 mkII

honestly though roger said he put his best ideas in tempest which was 4 years in the making so i wouldnt hold my breath for linndrum2 anytime soon..
Old 6th March 2012
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Roger would rather be playing his guitar.....
Old 6th March 2012
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Originally Posted by xanax View Post
huh? tempest has analog curtis dcos, filter, compression, distortion... the whole signal pathway is pretty much analog
I was talking about the Linndrum II. I figured that they would hold off on sampling for the tempest, its a product for a different market. That makes sense.

I could also see how making the Linndrum II all digital would make sense. But I fail to see how leaving sampling off the Linndrum II makes a single bit of sense. While an analog signal path was a personal want of mine for the Linndrum II, sampling is not. Sampling is a baseline requirement for the market he hopes to compete in. That's just the reality of the situation man. Computer file transfer is not an adequate substitute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
btw the original linndrum didn't sample, this will be linndrum 2 not MPC 3000 mkII
We can debate the nomenclature of the thing, but the fact is that Roger Linn designed more sampling drum machines than he did non-sampling drum machines. The ones with sampling inputs also moved more units than the ones without. Money makes the meter move right? C'mon Roger.

And while I wasn't holding my breath (I'm not really the type, I'd rather make a beat), I was looking forward to it. At least until today.

Without sampling, I fail to see a market for the Linndrum II.
Old 6th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireworks View Post
Linndrum 2 will not sample at all. Roger linn told me personally. He said the tempest is mostly what he had in mind for linn drum 2 but without the synth. He said it will not sample but will LOAD ?
When did he tell you that? Hopefully its a hint they are going to implement sample import. I really want to see un-quantized recording also.
Old 6th March 2012
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He would crush the competition with a product that truly married the SOUND and FEEL of the Mpc 60 with the features of more modern drum machines.
Old 7th March 2012
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Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
Drum machines are fun to use though. That can't be really said of the computer.
You must not be a piano player. I've owned maschine it sucks. Hardware is ight but the program it self sucks. Its just another MIDI pad controller to me.

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G using Gearslutz.com
Old 7th March 2012
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Originally Posted by voorhee View Post
You must not be a piano player. I've owned maschine it sucks. Hardware is ight but the program it self sucks. Its just another MIDI pad controller to me.

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wait, what does not being a piano player have to do with him finding drum machines fun?

And just because you think maschine sucks doesn't mean it actually does. If it did I'm sure pro-producers wouldn't use it.
Old 7th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I was talking about the Linndrum II. I figured that they would hold off on sampling for the tempest, its a product for a different market. That makes sense.

I could also see how making the Linndrum II all digital would make sense. But I fail to see how leaving sampling off the Linndrum II makes a single bit of sense. While an analog signal path was a personal want of mine for the Linndrum II, sampling is not. Sampling is a baseline requirement for the market he hopes to compete in. That's just the reality of the situation man. Computer file transfer is not an adequate substitute.



We can debate the nomenclature of the thing, but the fact is that Roger Linn designed more sampling drum machines than he did non-sampling drum machines. The ones with sampling inputs also moved more units than the ones without. Money makes the meter move right? C'mon Roger.

And while I wasn't holding my breath (I'm not really the type, I'd rather make a beat), I was looking forward to it. At least until today.

Without sampling, I fail to see a market for the Linndrum II.
Sampling is the only reason why the Linn Drum peaked my interest. The early designs of the Boomchik and comments made by Roger Linn implying he didn't want to show his hand to competitors really got me wanting his new product. Then he said that his and Dave's customers wanted something different.

Obviously, Roger doesn't know who is customers/supporters are.....MPC 60/60II and MPC 3000/LE users.

Not having actual sampling is a huge let down. I don't think that type of product would do well.
Old 7th March 2012
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Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
Sampling is the only reason why the Linn Drum peaked my interest. The early designs of the Boomchik and comments made by Roger Linn implying he didn't want to show his hand to competitors really got me wanting his new product. Then he said that his and Dave's customers wanted something different.

Obviously, Roger doesn't know who is customers/supporters are.....MPC 60/60II and MPC 3000/LE users.

Not having actual sampling is a huge let down. I don't think that type of product would do well.
Are you listening, Roger?
Old 7th March 2012
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Let's hope so!
Old 7th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
We can debate the nomenclature of the thing, but the fact is that Roger Linn designed more sampling drum machines than he did non-sampling drum machines. The ones with sampling inputs also moved more units than the ones without. Money makes the meter move right? C'mon Roger.
actually you're very mistaken, Roger Linn made more non-sampling drum machines: LM-1, LinnDrum, Linn9000, AdrenaLinn & Tempest vs. MPC60/3000.

May i also remind you that the Linndrum & LM-1 were on practically every pop record on earth during the 80's including Michael Jackson's Thriller, and almost every Prince record. those were also 100% his design so he made a lot more money on those than the akai joints..

i would love just as much as any of you guys a MPC3000 mkII, especially since Tempest already fills the non sampling drum machine gap but i'm afraid that might only happen if he collaborates with Akai again, and that is pretty unlikely. the MPC60/3000 was really the fruit collaboration of Rogers previous drum machine engineering and Akai's sampler technology.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Without sampling, I fail to see a market for the Linndrum II.
If the LinnDrum 2 (if it ever comes out and that's a big IF) can import rex files, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, people import samples through CF cards to their MPC's anyways these days, if you've got a proper sound card, sampling and chopping/editing can be better done on a computer imo... also don't forget there is a market outside hip-hop for him... electro cats are the main ones dropping 2Gs on tempest and they are pretty future oriented, so he may not care so much what some hip-hop purists want the product to be, just my 2c
Old 7th March 2012
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Originally Posted by xanax View Post
electro cats are the main ones dropping 2Gs on tempest and they are pretty future oriented, so he may not care so much what some hip-hop purists want the product to be, just my 2c
He shot himself in one foot with the no samples import/sampling with the tempest (believe it or not a lot of us were underwelmed by the tempest and felt it would have been a lot more interesting to be able to use the mechanics to process our own sounds) he may as well shoot the other foot now.....

edit-Anyway hope you get it together Roger.Its gonna be a piece for sure.....
Old 7th March 2012
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mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
actually you're very mistaken, Roger Linn made more non-sampling drum machines: LM-1, LinnDrum, Linn9000, AdrenaLinn & Tempest vs. MPC60/3000.

May i also remind you that the Linndrum & LM-1 were on practically every pop record on earth during the 80's including Michael Jackson's Thriller, and almost every Prince record. those were also 100% his design so he made a lot more money on those than the akai joints..

i would love just as much as any of you guys a MPC3000 mkII, especially since Tempest already fills the non sampling drum machine gap but i'm afraid that might only happen if he collaborates with Akai again, and that is pretty unlikely. the MPC60/3000 was really the fruit collaboration of Rogers previous drum machine engineering and Akai's sampler technology.

If the LinnDrum 2 (if it ever comes out and that's a big IF) can import rex files, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, people import samples through CF cards to their MPC's anyways these days, if you've got a proper sound card, sampling and chopping/editing can be better done on a computer imo... also don't forget there is a market outside hip-hop for him... electro cats are the main ones dropping 2Gs on tempest and they are pretty future oriented, so he may not care so much what some hip-hop purists want the product to be, just my 2c
The linn 9000 can sample. So if you dont include the adrenalinn, which I didn't because its primarily an effects machine (it has a whopping 40 non-editable drum sounds), then it's a draw. So I guess I was wrong.

But remind me again which machines on the above list have appeared on the most records? And which are still in use? Which sold the most units? You can't really make the argument that he's not ignoring the market. And this isn't about purism. (I don't really consider myself a purist, but that's beside the point.) This is what its about: Name an all digital, non-sampling, non-synthesis based drum machine that has succeeded in the marketplace in the last 20 years. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of one that's even been brought to market. What is he competing with, plugins?

Sampling and chopping is a matter of preference. I prefer my 2500 w/JJ to any software by a wide margin.

edit: and its not that I'm against USB transfer. I'm just against USB as the ONLY way to get samples in. For me, hardware is supposed to get me away from the computer. An umbilical cord doesn't accomplish that.

edit2: the MPC 60 was virtually all Roger's idea. It was essentially a re-do of the Linn 9000, with Akai's superior sampling technology used in the place of Linn's. The collaboration was "hey Roger, let's build a better version of your drum machine".
Old 7th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
But remind me again which machines on the above list have appeared on the most records? And which are still in use? Which sold the most units? You can't really make the argument that he's not ignoring the market. And this isn't about purism. (I don't really consider myself a purist, but that's beside the point.) Name an all digital, non-sampling, non-synthesis based drum machine that has succeeded in the marketplace in the last 20 years. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of one that's even been brought to market.
I agree 100%.


That said, at this point, I just don't even understand his decisions. I don't know if I remember this correctly, because it's been likely well over 5 years since this really started, but it was first going to be analog, then it went digital, but was going to sample. Then their were going to be 2 versions. I believe that was before Dave Smith was even involved. I remember Linn saying things were taking so long because he wanted to incorporate feedback he was getting. Seems like all of that went out the window. That said, lets see if it comes out first, lol. I remember people were actually saving up for this thing super long ago, I wonder how they feel.
Old 7th March 2012
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Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
The linn 9000 can sample. So if you dont include the adrenalinn, which I didn't because its primarily an effects machine (it has a whopping 40 non-editable drum sounds), then it's a draw. So I guess I was wrong.

But remind me again which machines on the above list have appeared on the most records? And which are still in use? Which sold the most units? You can't really make the argument that he's not ignoring the market. And this isn't about purism. (I don't really consider myself a purist, but that's beside the point.) This is what its about: Name an all digital, non-sampling, non-synthesis based drum machine that has succeeded in the marketplace in the last 20 years. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of one that's even been brought to market. What is he competing with, plugins?

Sampling and chopping is a matter of preference. I prefer my 2500 w/JJ to any software by a wide margin.

One could also argue that the Tempest can be for purists as well, however, bringing it back to those old school analog sounds, with of course plenty of room for future innovation as well.

Is it feasible to expect or even hope for a future OS update to the Tempest would allow to import samples?
Old 8th March 2012
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Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Name an all digital, non-sampling, non-synthesis based drum machine that has succeeded in the marketplace in the last 20 years.
drumulator,drumtraks,dmx,lm-1,linndrum,tr-707,machinedrum etc etc... these are all cult status non-sampling machines still used daily by electronic artists (just go into the edm section of gearslutz there are daily topics about them)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
You can't really make the argument that he's not ignoring the market.
on the contrary, yes he is ignoring the hip-hop production market to a certain extent.. but what you must realize is that hip-hop is not the only market out there, just look at the official tempest demos they're 99% electronica, and being myself a tempest owner and in the dsi online community, 99% tempest owners are making electronica with it, and are loving the analog sounds and mind blowing sequencer, they couldnt care less about sampling, chopping etc..

of course the MPC60/3K are hip-hop holy grails, but you are going to have to look at akai if you want future products following that legacy..

finally take a look at roger.. i'm sure he's proud of what hip-hop cats have achieved with the MPC series but his main intent when creating them was not at all with hip-hop in mind, i'm sure its the same today, in the end its gonna be for you to adapt into his vision and not the opposite..


Quote:
Originally Posted by rephrased View Post
Is it feasible to expect or even hope for a future OS update to the Tempest would allow to import samples?
it's technically possible but its been stated it will not be planned for at least a year (many basic functions are still in need to be implemented first) a lot of crazy stuff is planned for it though i'll tell ya, and its still a beast in its current state
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Old 8th March 2012
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What or where is the deal indeed.

The Tempest is going for $3600 NZD here

Lmao

.........no
Old 8th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax
....and are loving the analog sounds and mind blowing sequencer....
....what's so mind blowing about the sequencer?

I am not one to tell people how to run their business or what to sell....but adding actual sampling for those that care about sampling and chopping will move more units. If not...I see the Tempest and the furture drum machine Linn is doing as a special order item..nothing retailers would keep in stock. It will be one of those build to order products like SE synths.
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