synth's into a DI or Mic Pre?

[crew14]

I understand that if record my motif straight to my converters....... it sounds like ass. I have RME convertors.

But why do people reccomend that I track synths thru a DI instead of a high quality Microphone Preamp? I never understood this concept.....




Also, are the HI-Z inputs on pre's only for instruments with low outputs like bass and guitar???? If i plug in a higher output instrument like a synth into a HI-Z input, then ill probably get the same brittle sound, (like tracking direct to converters???)

Is that logical?

[adrianex]

You can use both... at least that what I do.

If the preamp has a D.I Input you can use it and it should the trick, but for my personal taste I go tru a D.I (the brick, or something else) and then go to a preamp (API, NEVE, Avalon). Just because I always feel that it sound better that way and give them a different color (plus if the preamp has a nice EQ, then I can play with it more)

You can't go wrong using either is more as personal taste.

My humble opinion

Adrianex

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by crew14

Also, are the HI-Z inputs on pre's only for instruments with low outputs like bass and guitar???? If i plug in a higher output instrument like a synth into a HI-Z input, then ill probably get the same brittle sound, (like tracking direct to converters???)

Is that logical?

No, they are generally used for synths/drum machines as well..

[crew14]

ok thanks for the replies

1. if the mic pre amp has no DI, is it still advisable to run the synth's output into the mic input?



2. If i run a synth thru a DI, is it advisable to run that again through a mic pre and then to my converters? Or is it ok just to go synth------DI-------Convertors?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by crew14

ok thanks for the replies

1. if the mic pre amp has no DI, is it still advisable to run the synth's output into the mic input?

No, at that point you would typically want to use a DI...

Originally Posted by crew14

2. If i run a synth thru a DI, is it advisable to run that again through a mic pre and then to my converters? Or is it ok just to go synth------DI-------Convertors?

Most DI's put out a mic level signal, so the majority opf times you would have to connect it to the mic pre regardless..

[andrewj]

To me a motif should also sound good direct to the converter!

And RMEs are not the worst ones!

No doubt a real good DI or MicPre will improve the quality!

[whitepapagold]

I contacted GML when I got the 8302 pres and asked them the same question-in regards to their pre(it has NO di). They told me for the best sound quality use an xlr to 1/4 and go right into the pre-no DI. I have a countryman di and tristech di and I tried it all three ways ways- I cant say one was "worse" than the other-but definitely different relative to each other.
I assume it depends on the pre...... But I run it both ways and can lean either direction with the GML. With my BAE 1272, I prefer the di (though it could be all in my head).
The one thing Ive had re-enforced on this site is "use your ears"- Never assume anything without hearing it first..... If it sounds bad to your ears- who cares what anyone says! (but DI straight to converters- yuuck-at least with my gear)

[youngkain]

Yo Tony,

So I need a DI and then still a mic preamp inputs??

I got a Motu 24 i/o i use for tracking, I run all my gear through a Soundcraft ghost before hitting the MOTU.

I am thinking of picking up the 24 Channel deskdoctor, or the other solution you said you are looking (mentioned in another post) into for around 1000 bucks.

I know my ghost preamp inputs need servicing. Im kinda concerend about all that. I would rather use TRS inputs at the desk before hitting AD converters.. Would the deskdoctor solve my problems?? Or would i have to get my desk serciced (the preamps) on top of that. .. Im confused now!!

Any ideas?
Thanks

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

I contacted GML when I got the 8302 pres and asked them the same question-in regards to their pre(it has NO di). They told me for the best sound quality use an xlr to 1/4 and go right into the pre-no DI. I have a countryman di and tristech di and I tried it all three ways ways- I cant say one was "worse" than the other-but definitely different relative to each other.
I assume it depends on the pre...... But I run it both ways and can lean either direction with the GML. With my BAE 1272, I prefer the di (though it could be all in my head).
The one thing Ive had re-enforced on this site is "use your ears"- Never assume anything without hearing it first..... If it sounds bad to your ears- who cares what anyone says! (but DI straight to converters- yuuck-at least with my gear)

That's most likely due to a very high mic input impedance on the GML, which definitely isn't the norm... The 1272's have 300 or 1200 ohms which is too low for a keyboard (and forget about guitars)..

[andrewj]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

With my BAE 1272, I prefer the di (though it could be all in my head).

Anything I recorded thru this PreAmp gets a lot more WOW!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by youngkain

Yo Tony,

So I need a DI and then still a mic preamp inputs??

I got a Motu 24 i/o i use for tracking, I run all my gear through a Soundcraft ghost before hitting the MOTU.

I am thinking of picking up the 24 Channel deskdoctor, or the other solution you said you are looking (mentioned in another post) into for around 1000 bucks.

I know my ghost preamp inputs need servicing. Im kinda concerend about all that. I would rather use TRS inputs at the desk before hitting AD converters.. Would the deskdoctor solve my problems?? Or would i have to get my desk serciced (the preamps) on top of that. .. Im confused now!!

Any ideas?
Thanks

Both the Desk Doctor and the new piece have balanced line level outputs, so you wouldn't need a preamp.

So, you would completely bypass your console...

[tekn0]

Tony i remember a little while back you had mentioned you had a product you were helping test just for this kind of thing and would announce soon, Any status on that? Or was it just for tracking mpcs?

[youngkain]

Now thats a all in one solution for a DAW, Run my gear through that and hit the DAW straight, Less noise...less hassle and a dope signal ??

Does the thing you are looking into have 24 Ins ??


Respect Fam !!

[andrewj]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

That's most likely due to a very high mic input impedance on the GML, which definitely isn't the norm... The 1272's have 300 or 1200 ohms which is too low for a keyboard (and forget about guitars)..

So you think the averills are not good for keyboards and guitars?

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

That's most likely due to a very high mic input impedance on the GML, which definitely isn't the norm... The 1272's have 300 or 1200 ohms which is too low for a keyboard (and forget about guitars)..

Thanks Tony! I wondered why... Thats why I said it could all be in my head! I would NEVER DI a guitar into the GML(and never have)-yuuck!

And AndrewJ
-100% right!!! Im head over heels for my BAE! I just got the dual a week or so ago (after testing a single)and now am on a JOB FOR THE NEXT MONTH...... ARRRRG!!!! I cant even play with it.... ITS KILLING ME! At least I have internet and gearslutz to get me through...the....with..dr.awals........

[crew14]

hey 2 more questions tony


1. Why would it be a bad idea to connect a synth directly to a mic preamp input?


2. If i run a synth through a DI -----directly to converters, wouldn't the master volume on my keyboard (motif) easily provide enough signal to hit the convertors? (withouth the additional need for a mic pre after my DI)


Thanks!

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by andrewj

So you think the averills are not good for keyboards and guitars?

I think he was just explaining to me why the xlr/mic input works with the GML(no DI) but sounds like crap with the 1272(no DI)-Impedance......

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by tekn0

Tony i remember a little while back you had mentioned you had a product you were helping test just for this kind of thing and would announce soon, Any status on that? Or was it just for tracking mpcs?

It's going to be a multi-use box.. can't talk about it yet. But, soon.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by crew14

hey 2 more questions tony


1. Why would it be a bad idea to connect a synth directly to a mic preamp input?


2. If i run a synth through a DI -----directly to converters, wouldn't the master volume on my keyboard (motif) easily provide enough signal to hit the convertors? (withouth the additional need for a mic pre after my DI)


Thanks!

It's not a bad idea, you can do it... It's just not typically how you would want to do it. Unless you wanted some extra distortion.

The typical DI drops your keyboard down to a microphone level and impedance. So, it's the same as plugging a mic directly into your converter.... not enough signal.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

I think he was just explaining to me why the xlr/mic input works with the GML(no DI) but sounds like crap with the 1272(no DI)-Impedence......

Correct.. it's my best logical guess.

[andrewj]

Originally Posted by andrewj

So you think the averills are not good for keyboards and guitars?

Sorry for that Tony, now I got it! You think the Mic Inputs re not good, but the DI are, right?!

Hups, typed too late! Sorry again!

Do I interpret this one right for most cases: The manufacturers of the better MicPres often offer no DIs because they have MicPres which have enough ohms for that? Most of the others offer these extra DI jacks, becuase they do not?

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by andrewj

Sorry for that Tony, now I got it! You think the Mic Inputs re not good, but the DI are, right?!

Hups, typed too late! Sorry again!

Do I interpret this one right for most cases: The manufacturers of the better MicPres often offer no DIs because they have MicPres which have enough ohms for that? Most of the others offer these extra DI jacks, becuase they do not?

I wouldn't say the GML is "better" at all. Just different! DIs from my experience are just another usefull feature a pre can offer.

[andrewj]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

I wouldn't say the GML is "better" at all. Just different! DIs from my experience are just another usefull feature a pre can offer.

Sorry, but I thought about the good ones in general! This includes GML, API, Averill, Summit and all the good tools we use every day!

For me a "better" one is every Pre that offers something that brought him into the big studios as well as on the wish lists of so many of us!

I heard the GML and would lie if I said it sounds bad, but I must say if I should choose an additional Pre to my Averill, which I would never like to miss, I would prefer an ADL 600 or the new API Pre because of their extra glue!

But of course it does not only depend on my taste but also on the music I mix at the moment! If I would do something different a GML would be the better choice perhaps. As lots here said in many different cases, it always is a matter of taste if you talk about the better ones!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by andrewj

Do I interpret this one right for most cases: The manufacturers of the better MicPres often offer no DIs because they have MicPres which have enough ohms for that? Most of the others offer these extra DI jacks, becuase they do not?

No, it's just the design of that specific piece...

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by andrewj

I heard the GML and would lie if I said it sounds bad, but I must say if I should choose an additional Pre to my Averill, which I would never like to miss, I would prefer an ADL 600 or the new API Pre because of their extra glue!

Get the API to compliment the Neve flavor! I can't honestly say that I would buy the GML preamp for Hip Hop, as it's pretty much a wire with gain and doesn't impart any character to the signal. I want a big heaping scoop of character with my preamps.

[andrewj]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Get the API to compliment the Neve flavor! I can't honestly say that I would buy the GML preamp for Hip Hop, as it's pretty much a wire with gain and doesn't impart any character to the signal. I want a big heaping scoop of character with my preamps.

Well thank you for that advise, but as you may have read here I wanna complete another type of outboard add on at the moment! Otherwise I would definately give these unit the go! By the way can you trade units useable for european customers there (220 volts and so on, tax an duty probs solved???).

I bought the averills first. now I got the URS setup from you and love these units! I know they are not like hardware but they are better than the stuff i have tried before!

I think my next buy will be a compressor. Would love to read your advise here, too.

Sorry, but have to leave now. My sweety is calling. Such few time since I found gearslutz.com!

[Agli]

The DI's on many preamps bypass the input transformer so you get a slightly less coloured sound than going first through a DIbox and on through the mic inputs.

[whitepapagold]

The GML shines on stereo apps- W...I...D...E.... I hate it on guitars and bass-too sterile. For classical though its wonderful- with a couple of RCA 44s. You get what you hear in the room with (to quote Thrillfactor) " a diamond top"(that "top" is also often helpful with ribbon mics). Drum OH nice-but it MUST sound great in the room to begin with! They make a good sounding room more necessary though IMHO-catches the slap and natural verb almost too well.

If you only track pop/rock- Id go API as well. The GML makes string players happy- different breed!

[A Fak]

Both the Desk Doctor and the new piece have balanced line level outputs, so you wouldn't need a preamp.

So, you would completely bypass your console...

I bought the 8ch version of the Desk Doctor (Tony recommended it to me along time ago) and love it for my synths .

By the way I never said thanks for the advice so thanks Tony!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by A Fak

I bought the 8ch version of the Desk Doctor (Tony recommended it to me along time ago) and love it for my synths .

By the way I never said thanks for the advice so thanks Tony!

No problem... Did you buy it from me?