What is 40's and Illangelo's secret?

[godphaser]

And Cubase is a dope ass software, you can do everything with it.

[fooloof]

Originally Posted by 03.31.83

Haha, very funny guys.

Noah here. if you have serious questions I'm all ears. And I might share one or two secrets with you

Peace.

I love Noah's work. If I ever had an opportunity to speak with him I would ask him the following questions:

1. Where does he get his drums, especially his snares? and he does a great job of having commercial beats without always using the go-to 808s. does he layer the snares? are they stock samples or does he manipulate the sounds (aside from obvious things like compression or distortion). I mean, does he shape the sounds or synthesize them?

2. Where does he get his sounds in general? and how much manipulation does he do to them before mixing? In other words, does he take a stock sound and track it or does he use sound shaping tools aside from the obvious techniques like compression or distortion?

3. Does he lay down MIDI tracks and scroll through sounds later or does he compose and print?

And I would tell him "thank you very much"

[revealbeats]

why anyone would wanna bite these guys style is beyond me.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by revealbeats

why anyone would wanna bite these guys style is beyond me.

I personally think he's one of the most innovative producers to this day. He draws on a lot of sound manipulation that's never touched the RnB world and put it down in a way that's both accessible to the RnB fans and unique to them. I LOVE the way he manipulates delays and effecty-processing.

[fooloof]

Originally Posted by revealbeats

why anyone would wanna bite these guys style is beyond me.

I, for one, don't want to bite his style. My questions are ones I would ask any of the producers/beatmakers I admire. it's all about figuring out where my focus should be in order to get better quality sounds: is it getting the right sample libraries? is it sound shaping? is it honing my overall mixing skills?

i suspect it's all of the above.

[Danny Downer]

Originally Posted by fooloof

I, for one, don't want to bite his style. My questions are ones I would ask any of the producers/beatmakers I admire. it's all about figuring out where my focus should be in order to get better quality sounds: is it getting the right sample libraries? is it sound shaping? is it honing my overall mixing skills?

i suspect it's all of the above.

You suspect good young jedi! Now get out of the interwebz and start putting in work me says!

[TheArk]

I just want to learn to create my own sounds and style. I suspect heavy filters but thats only half the battle

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by TheArk

I just want to learn to create my own sounds and style. I suspect heavy filters but thats only half the battle

Half? Heavy filters is like 1/1000th the battle. But every bit counts

[TheArk]

Originally Posted by Storyville

Half? Heavy filters is like 1/1000th the battle. But every bit counts

I truly don't believe its THAT complicated. I checked out hybrid and its cool but im in cubase for production. I just want one synth where i can create anysound i hear in my jead. Any hybrid alternatives???????

[Storyville]

It's not that it's complex per se, but more that it's a well practice understanding of music, song structure, parts arrangement, harmonies, how the vocal will interact, mixing, as well as sound selection and effects. So yes, an understanding of filters will help, but it's a far cry from being able to produce on that level.

[G. Kaye]

I listened to some of his beats to see what all the hype was, and have to say I'm just not hearing it. Most sounded pretty dull, boring, and muffled with no groove. Like he's just holding down 1 or 2 chords for the whole song with a little drum pattern under it. What's so special? I dont get it.

[bigyo]

40 is just doing his own thing,what he does probably isn't all that special to him ... I suggest you become an innovator ..and maybe kids will come to Gearslutz and ask "Whats your big Secret?"

[KT1]

Originally Posted by TheArk

I truly don't believe its THAT complicated. I checked out hybrid and its cool but im in cubase for production. I just want one synth where i can create anysound i hear in my jead. Any hybrid alternatives???????

With upmost respect. What synths do you have? I bet you already have a synth that meets that..but you havent bothered to learn synthesis. Sorry if i am being presumptuous but you dont seem to get what is going on.

He says i use pro-tools and you say Cubase so cant do it? I'm so confused..but not as much as you from what i am reading.

Like i said what synths do you own. None of the synth sounds i have heard on 40's stuff is impossible to replicate without his gear...NONE!

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by G. Kaye

I listened to some of his beats to see what all the hype was, and have to say I'm just not hearing it. Most sounded pretty dull, boring, and muffled with no groove. Like he's just holding down 1 or 2 chords for the whole song with a little drum pattern under it. What's so special? I dont get it.

not to hate... but... i'd have to +1 the above.

his sound manipulating skills... really cool.

but his stuff is boring as hell... maybe that's why he fits drake this well.

i'd like to hear him do a real banger for a change, not these bleeps and blops as drums all the time it's like listening to an acappella with too much bleed.

[Cgbravo]

I actually think you might be putting too much thought into it. The reason why his sound is "innovative" is because not everyone was use to hearing mainstream commercial released albums sound like that throughtout its entirety.

"That" meaning - pad running through the whole song, filtered drums and then a change to your typical drum sound, and sample usage combined with his sound, you would see something like this happening from an underground artist and Im talking mostly production wise and I guess it just threw everyone off?

Have you tried emulating his sound? if so you should post something, maybe you're not that far off from it in terms of the overall CONCEPT...

[kojo]

Originally Posted by Cgbravo

I actually think you might be putting too much thought into it. The reason why his sound is "innovative" is because not everyone was use to hearing mainstream commercial released albums sound like that throughtout its entirety.

"That" meaning - pad running through the whole song, filtered drums and then a change to your typical drum sound, and sample usage combined with his sound, you would see something like this happening from an underground artist and Im talking mostly production wise and I guess it just threw everyone off?

Have you tried emulating his sound? if so you should post something, maybe you're not that far off from it in terms of the overall CONCEPT...

Pretty much. 40 has posted here numerous times welllll before NAMM. He's a good dude and he's not pulling your legs when he speaks about xpand2 and hybrid. I've been using Xpand2 for several years now after this producer named Vince V put me onto it. Look his xpand2 preset vids up on YouTube and you'll hear it yourself. The combi pad patches and arps you can get out of the thing are definitely in line with the "Drake" sound. 40 is in a good lane, he does the softer ballad/alternative stuff for drake while boi-1da and T-minus do the heavy rap bangers. As far as the Weeknd goes, ilangelo is on twitter, maybe hit him up for how he does things...

[LCP]

all of this sounds like 40

i sure as hell wouldn't be able to create them with any synth though lol
but i guess you can look at some of the settings there

[RyanC]

Originally Posted by LCP

all of this sounds like 40

i sure as hell wouldn't be able to create them with any synth though lol
but i guess you can look at some of the settings there

Xpand is a rompler, not much to see in terms of copy XYZ setting, most of the actual synth patches in there could be emulated in just about any synth though. The vast majority of them are poly-saw, with a EG on the pitch and several layers and lots of reverb and delay. Different synths wont sound exactly the same, but would get the same feel. Xpand has some pretty cool sounds but it's downfall is you can't really adjust much.

My guess is their secret is something more pedestrian like using auto-tune bass on siney kicks...

Also there is a little bit something old school about using something like xpand for certain things, sorta like the triton brass you used to hear so much in HH or Gospel (think Fat Joe make it rain classic triton brass right there). It's not the most real brass sound, but there is something cool and kinda gritty about it.

[TheArk]

Originally Posted by KT1

With upmost respect. What synths do you have? I bet you already have a synth that meets that..but you havent bothered to learn synthesis. Sorry if i am being presumptuous but you dont seem to get what is going on.

He says i use pro-tools and you say Cubase so cant do it? I'm so confused..but not as much as you from what i am reading.

Like i said what synths do you own. None of the synth sounds i have heard on 40's stuff is impossible to replicate without his gear...NONE!

I have pro tools as well but xpand 2 is very limited. I want to create sounds.
I am stuck since i do not know what synthesis method i want to learn. Should i learn granular, wavetable, fm, or subtractive? I actually am learning synth design. I just want one synth capable of creating everything. I really dont want to learn all synthesis types since i have other things to learn as well

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by kojo

Pretty much. 40 has posted here numerous times welllll before NAMM. He's a good dude and he's not pulling your legs when he speaks about xpand2 and hybrid. I've been using Xpand2 for several years now after this producer named Vince V put me onto it. Look his xpand2 preset vids up on YouTube and you'll hear it yourself. The combi pad patches and arps you can get out of the thing are definitely in line with the "Drake" sound. 40 is in a good lane, he does the softer ballad/alternative stuff for drake while boi-1da and T-minus do the heavy rap bangers. As far as the Weeknd goes, ilangelo is on twitter, maybe hit him up for how he does things...

Vince V doesn't happen to be Vince Vandal?

[MitchGeist]

Originally Posted by Storyville

I personally think he's one of the most innovative producers to this day. He draws on a lot of sound manipulation that's never touched the RnB world and put it down in a way that's both accessible to the RnB fans and unique to them. I LOVE the way he manipulates delays and effecty-processing.

He is crazy. And his beats aren't boring at all. Has anybody checked out Take Care here??? more specifically , "Cameras" ?

[RyanC]

Originally Posted by TheArk

I have pro tools as well but xpand 2 is very limited. I want to create sounds.
I am stuck since i do not know what synthesis method i want to learn. Should i learn granular, wavetable, fm, or subtractive? I actually am learning synth design. I just want one synth capable of creating everything. I really dont want to learn all synthesis types since i have other things to learn as well

I've owned Xpander, SCI pro one (this I want back), waldorf pulse, supernova, bass station, roland romplers, and used most VI's. Stricktly for synth programming and ignoring cost/value I would take Omnisphere/trillian over all those.

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by TheArk

I have pro tools as well but xpand 2 is very limited. I want to create sounds.
I am stuck since i do not know what synthesis method i want to learn. Should i learn granular, wavetable, fm, or subtractive? I actually am learning synth design. I just want one synth capable of creating everything. I really dont want to learn all synthesis types since i have other things to learn as well

have you looked into absynth and reaktor?
you can design your own stuff pretty easily with those.

besides sound design, i think one of his secrets is... he'll have you waiting for the real beat to drop in 4, 3, 2, 1.... but all 4+ minutes of the song... it never does.

at least that's why i sat through marvin's room.

[KT1]

Originally Posted by RyanC

I've owned Xpander, SCI pro one (this I want back), waldorf pulse, supernova, bass station, roland romplers, and used most VI's. Stricktly for synth programming and ignoring cost/value I would take Omnisphere/trillian over all those.

Well, I would suggest starting out with Subtractive synthesis. It's a classic method. You start with a full sound and then take peices away. Omnisphere is the 'one' soft synth i would suggest. I agree lots of great synths but for me the fact that omni samples the oscilators from analogue gear is untouchable.

Another point to note is those full rich pads that are in xpand rompler are mostly layered. Omnisphere will allow for this also.

Start with subtractive synthesis. You will find that the alternatives offer a different vibe - FM especially but is more metalic sounds. Really not easy to learn without any real synth knowledge. After FM i would look at additive synths. So much choice. Another great synth in my opinion is reasons Thor.

So what is synthesis and how to learn it? Well you need to first understand the routing of a synth.

It all begins with a sound. In analogue that charge - pulse is a VCO (voltage controlled osc). In the digital world these are replicated in the form of a DCO( Digital controlled osc). In Omni case it samples the VCO. so an interesting concept.

These are your wave forms ( Sine, triangle, saw, pulse, square etc). They each have a unique sound.

The next step is to work out if you want to use just one to create your sound. You may want to use 2 or three if they synth has enough. I like one osc patches for big mono sounds like bass or leads..no rules ofc.

Once you have that you need to think about how it moves from that part of the circuit into some kind of mixer - The mixer should allow you to blend the mix of signal from one osc or another. In the case of one nothing is required here. The next stage - generally is into a VCF ( or filter). Many synths offer different types of filter for use. This is usually your key shaping tool. Moog are famous for the Low pass they use but many other alternatives out there. Filters are GOD! Followed by the filter you usually have access to a Filter envelope. This effects how the filter behaves. This is your classic ADSR. After that you have the AMP which is to be thought of as your final output stage which will have an envelope too. Again this allows you to shape further the ADSR of the sound as opposed to the filter.

So now you have all of those ways in which you can create a sound!! Experinment and work out what each does and how they interact. In the filter section you usually have access to resonance. This is key for some styles but be carefull with resonance. I have blown a few tweeters in my time!

After all of this we move onto Modulation! All sorts of modulations are available. you modulate anything in some synths and other things in other synths depending on how good the modulation matrix is.

LFO is a term we often use. Low frequency osc. You dont hear this type of osc but the shape determines the shape of the modulation. You can put an LFO on anything. THink of it as an auto modulate button! You can then adjust the rate at which it modulates.

The classic and easy one to think of is dubstep wobbles (YUK BORING). SImple as puttin an LFO (prob a sine or triangle shape) on the filter rate. Because its a low pass it has that WHOOp WHHOP sound as it automates the filter being sweeped.

The list goes on dude..Exporation. The above is a great desription of classic subtractive synthesis. Check out some MOOG manuals. They are great at explainging this type of thing.

Bless

[aproblem]

Originally Posted by TheArk

Im all in cubase now so any alternatives?

their "Secrets" come from experimentation and experience with their tools/DAW/whatever they use.

[TYPHY]

Originally Posted by KT1

Well, I would suggest starting out with Subtractive synthesis. It's a classic method. You start with a full sound and then take peices away. Omnisphere is the 'one' soft synth i would suggest. I agree lots of great synths but for me the fact that omni samples the oscilators from analogue gear is untouchable.

Another point to note is those full rich pads that are in xpand rompler are mostly layered. Omnisphere will allow for this also.

Start with subtractive synthesis. You will find that the alternatives offer a different vibe - FM especially but is more metalic sounds. Really not easy to learn without any real synth knowledge. After FM i would look at additive synths. So much choice. Another great synth in my opinion is reasons Thor.

So what is synthesis and how to learn it? Well you need to first understand the routing of a synth.

It all begins with a sound. In analogue that charge - pulse is a VCO (voltage controlled osc). In the digital world these are replicated in the form of a DCO( Digital controlled osc). In Omni case it samples the VCO. so an interesting concept.

These are your wave forms ( Sine, triangle, saw, pulse, square etc). They each have a unique sound.

The next step is to work out if you want to use just one to create your sound. You may want to use 2 or three if they synth has enough. I like one osc patches for big mono sounds like bass or leads..no rules ofc.

Once you have that you need to think about how it moves from that part of the circuit into some kind of mixer - The mixer should allow you to blend the mix of signal from one osc or another. In the case of one nothing is required here. The next stage - generally is into a VCF ( or filter). Many synths offer different types of filter for use. This is usually your key shaping tool. Moog are famous for the Low pass they use but many other alternatives out there. Filters are GOD! Followed by the filter you usually have access to a Filter envelope. This effects how the filter behaves. This is your classic ADSR. After that you have the AMP which is to be thought of as your final output stage which will have an envelope too. Again this allows you to shape further the ADSR of the sound as opposed to the filter.

So now you have all of those ways in which you can create a sound!! Experinment and work out what each does and how they interact. In the filter section you usually have access to resonance. This is key for some styles but be carefull with resonance. I have blown a few tweeters in my time!

After all of this we move onto Modulation! All sorts of modulations are available. you modulate anything in some synths and other things in other synths depending on how good the modulation matrix is.

LFO is a term we often use. Low frequency osc. You dont hear this type of osc but the shape determines the shape of the modulation. You can put an LFO on anything. THink of it as an auto modulate button! You can then adjust the rate at which it modulates.

The classic and easy one to think of is dubstep wobbles (YUK BORING). SImple as puttin an LFO (prob a sine or triangle shape) on the filter rate. Because its a low pass it has that WHOOp WHHOP sound as it automates the filter being sweeped.

The list goes on dude..Exporation. The above is a great desription of classic subtractive synthesis. Check out some MOOG manuals. They are great at explainging this type of thing.

Bless

Very good explanation bro.
I have a Moog Slim Phatty and still learning, and what you've explained is EXACTLY how the SP works. Howeverr, I'm getting tired of it because all my lead patches all sound the same lol. Is it me or do the SP's different waves all sound similar? I'm starting to dislike the Moog sound (sounds crazy right?). I make mostly Hip Hop so it doesnt really fit all the time. I'm thinking about selling it for a Mopho.. it's more knobby and looks more fun to play with.

[bigyo]

Originally Posted by beat you down

have you looked into absynth and reaktor?
you can design your own stuff pretty easily with those.

besides sound design, i think one of his secrets is... he'll have you waiting for the real beat to drop in 4, 3, 2, 1.... but all 4+ minutes of the song... it never does.

at least that's why i sat through marvin's room.

I agree... Reaktor is a Freak of a sound designer ... as far as 40 goes.. I just don't get it...maybe my ears are bad.. or my brain is limited... I see more gearslutz posts about "How to achieve 40's sound" than any other producer.. all i know is when i listen to his beats ..I get sleepy..it's usually 1 big pad through the whole record.. all he did was Bite Kanye's style from "808s and Heartbreak"

[TYPHY]

Originally Posted by bigyo

I agree... Reaktor is a Freak of a sound designer ... as far as 40 goes.. I just don't get it...maybe my ears are bad.. or my brain is limited... I see more gearslutz posts about "How to achieve 40's sound" than any other producer.. all i know is when i listen to his beats ..I get sleepy..it's usually 1 big pad through the whole record.. all he did was Bite Kanye's style from "808s and Heartbreak"

Can you explain how his music is similar to 808's and Heartbreak? I hear this comparison a lot, but I don't really hear it, I'd like to understand why ppl say this. Thanx bruh

[jbrown1music]

Filtered samples with synths layered over them

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by MitchGeist

He is crazy. And his beats aren't boring at all. Has anybody checked out Take Care here??? more specifically , "Cameras" ?

What Illangelo does with The Weeknd is monumental. Using effects as key compositional tools - aside from the fact that it sounds really cool and unique, is also super satisfying to an audio freak like me.