How many of u are quantizing drums?

[KT1]

Originally Posted by chris carter

It depends on the kind of record. But for most hip-hop/r&b beats I'm quantizing the drums. The other music can ebb and flow, but the drums have to be rock-solid. I used to play in bands, from jazz bands to rock bands to pop bands. The good drummers I played with were so f*cking accurate they might as well have been quantized. Quantizing drums doesn't have anything to do with losing the groove. If you look at the bad-ass drummers and look at the song on a grid (provided they tracked with a click), you will see that their hits are RIGHT on the grid picture perfect and more accurate than any hardware device being triggered by midi.

The best real drummers are biological quantization machines.

Not sure i agree with this Chris, I work with a lot of great session drummers and the groove is totally related to where the drum is struck (what point within the bar). I think it's worth noting that we always refer to quantisation as 100% when in reality not many 100% quant. Totally agree that the straight groove (classic hip hop is very straight - Ki kick kick snare..ki kick kick snare.)

If that isn;t the 'groove' you want --> ki kick pause ki snare - you may be required to fall off the 16th's. Everything is on a grid right?

Dont know if that made sense.

[burster1]

I find it's not so much the quantizing that gives the robotic feel as it is exact volume levels every hit. I like to lay down the kick and snare with the MPC Full Level and quantize on and then turn them off for everything else. I then use them as I feel there needed.

[JoRillo]

Originally Posted by KT1

Not sure i agree with this Chris, I work with a lot of great session drummers and the groove is totally related to where the drum is struck (what point within the bar). I think it's worth noting that we always refer to quantisation as 100% when in reality not many 100% quant. Totally agree that the straight groove (classic hip hop is very straight - Ki kick kick snare..ki kick kick snare.)

If that isn;t the 'groove' you want --> ki kick pause ki snare - you may be required to fall off the 16th's. Everything is on a grid right?

Dont know if that made sense.

Agreed.

Side note - what is it what makes ghost notes so F'in cool?

[KT1]

Originally Posted by JoRillo

Agreed.

Side note - what is it what makes ghost notes so F'in cool?

Ghosting is something i hear a lot and most of the time it isn't executed well in midi It's almost a thread on its own :D.

We all know a ghost note is almost silent- the listener ‘feels’ it as opposed to hearing it. They can also be used to give a listener the impression that the sound is fuller. Great on high pitched percussion and hats etc..not only snares for that slap back kind of vibe.

[chris carter]

Folks can disagree with me, but I think "sloppy" drums are a misconception. I'm not saying lazy drum beats aren't good; I do them all the time WHEN THE SONG SPECIFICALLY CALLS FOR IT or in the occasional SPECIFIC SPOT IN A SONG. But I stand by my statement that great drummers have impecable timing and are essentially human metronomes. Back in the day I played with a lot of very good drummers and I had plenty of conversations about this very subject. I think what a lot of people HEAR is the rest of the band pushing and pulling against the drums which can give the illusion of a lazy drum beat. I do this kind of thing all the time and people think I didn't quantive the drums, when they ARE quantized, it's just that everything else isn't and years and years of playing jazz has given me a very good feel for playing against the beat.

That said, a lot of the records you hear on the radio with real drummers don't NECESSARILY have the best timing because they aren't that great of a drummer. So I suppose if you intention is just to fool people into thinking you have a real drummer on your record and that drummer is a little sloppy, then sloppy drums is the way to go!

I guess it's a subtle difference, and perhaps I have too much musical training for my own good to explain it adequately. I have tried wholeheartedly to forget what I've learned over the years, but some of it sticks no matter what LOL. But suffice to say, I have never met a GOOD drummer that didn't pride him or herself for being able to play EXACTLY on the beat and generally strove to do so except when the situation warranted it. I think the difference between myself and most (but not all) people on this forum is a wealth of experience as a live musician actually playing on a daily basis with real drummers (flame suit on!)

That all said, when we start talking about swinging, the upgbeats or the shuffles are not at 1/3 and those DO float by necessity depending on what's going on and I NEVER quantize those hits.

[KT1]

Originally Posted by chris carter

Folks can disagree with me, but I think "sloppy" drums are a misconception. I'm not saying lazy drum beats aren't good; I do them all the time WHEN THE SONG SPECIFICALLY CALLS FOR IT or in the occasional SPECIFIC SPOT IN A SONG. But I stand by my statement that great drummers have impecable timing and are essentially human metronomes. Back in the day I played with a lot of very good drummers and I had plenty of conversations about this very subject. I think what a lot of people HEAR is the rest of the band pushing and pulling against the drums which can give the illusion of a lazy drum beat. I do this kind of thing all the time and people think I didn't quantive the drums, when they ARE quantized, it's just that everything else isn't and years and years of playing jazz has given me a very good feel for playing against the beat.

That said, a lot of the records you hear on the radio with real drummers don't NECESSARILY have the best timing because they aren't that great of a drummer. So I suppose if you intention is just to fool people into thinking you have a real drummer on your record and that drummer is a little sloppy, then sloppy drums is the way to go!

I guess it's a subtle difference, and perhaps I have too much musical training for my own good to explain it adequately. I have tried wholeheartedly to forget what I've learned over the years, but some of it sticks no matter what LOL. But suffice to say, I have never met a GOOD drummer that didn't pride him or herself for being able to play EXACTLY on the beat and generally strove to do so except when the situation warranted it. I think the difference between myself and most (but not all) people on this forum is a wealth of experience as a live musician actually playing on a daily basis with real drummers (flame suit on!)

That all said, when we start talking about swinging, the upgbeats or the shuffles are not at 1/3 and those DO float by necessity depending on what's going on and I NEVER quantize those hits.

You're not wrong. I do agree and dont think i understood your first point. I agree that a good session drummer is a metronome. In fact the last drummer i worked with had a moment with a fill . Problem was we had been recording to a hat 1/8 notes..Forgot to click he played. I then said we forgot the click just going to work out what you played at..Him: it was about 160ish..It was 160.04 or something stupid. These guys are definately capable.

I also agree that a lazy groove is a musical choice. It is suited in some cases and not on others. I also agree with a point you made with regards to the illusion of push and pull. In fact that same illusion can be created by simply missing a beat..or as discussed adding some swing..or..a host of things.

My point was simply that a 100% quantisation as a tool for correction take away some of the human. Not the fact that human are not on time simply that they choose to wait a beat or so. That doesn't mean they are not in time, on beat and 'self quantised'.

I think i understand - always respect your point of view chris as a musician and mixing engineer. Appreciate you chiming back in.

[DJ TEKNIK]

I do both