8 things that separate pros from amateurs

[Storyville]

I'm sure this'll spark a little argument, but I'm gonna go for it anyway

This is from an article I wrote - it's a list of eight things that separate pro productions from amateur productions:

1. Groove

Sequencers are extremely convenient, and so is quantization. However, a totally sequenced beat, or one where everything is 100% quantized will sound extremely robotic – like an old school Casio keyboard demo. Robotic has it’s place, but Pop music, RnB, House music, and Hip Hop all have roots in Funk and Jazz. If there isn’t some kind of rhythmic push and pull, some kind of human dynamics and timing involved, the track will sound stale! Amateurs program, Pros play it out.

2. Dynamics

Following that idea – music needs contrast. If everything stays at the same volume, the hi-hat just ticking away, the snares and kicks hitting exactly the same – it doesn’t sound emotional. There’s no movement. Things need to hit differently to be believable.

3. Layering

Layering sounds is an art and a science. Two sounds that are amazing independently can sound terrible together, and conversely one good sound and one that sounds awful on it’s own can come together to form something incredible. Pro Hip Hop producers spend years cultivating their layering techniques. Amateurs either layer thoughtlessly, layer too much, or don’t layer at all. Now mind you, if a sound is exactly what you want on its own – no need to layer. The point is, the Pros do it and do it well.

4. Separation of Musical Sections

This one is important. If I’m an A&R or a performing artist, and I can’t tell when the hook is happening vs. when the verse is happening, I’m probably not interested in the production. Changing one element, or introducing a lead line is a pretty cheap way to differentiate. Different song sections must be clearly different. It will also help to incorporate transitional moments, such as beat drops, or builds, when going from one section to another. Different layers at different sections go a long way here. Arrangement matters.

5. Unique Moments

Hip Hop is loop based. Fine. That doesn’t mean a production needs to sound like the song is only four bars long and someone put it on repeat. The production needs to consistently move and evolve or it gets repetitive. Simple things like beat drops, or occasional sound effects, a synth pad that only plays a couple times, or a stutter effect can quickly make a production more interesting.

6. Unique Personality

This is a bit abstract, but the best of the best are able to make productions that are immediately recognizable and have a distinct personality. Producers find through their personal aesthetics what they like and incorporate those things into their style. Understanding what other producers are doing to get their sound is important for growth – but making it your own is what the game is really about. Find your “thing” and people will know why they need to find you!

7. Vocal Hook

This one is not always necessary, but, when it comes to placing records – particularly Pop records (but Hip Hop too), a written and performed vocal hook will immediately separate the pros from the amateurs. Writing and recording a hook will also quickly reveal if the production side of the hook is where it needs to be.

8. Subtlety

This is a personal preference, but one I would definitely consider. I personally find that a lot of production lacks subtlety. Not all things need to be upfront and clearly hearable. Sometimes a little something happening – small moments or instruments that just add some flavor but maybe aren’t readily noticed – makes the difference between a bland production versus an interesting, unique production with depth.

Now, a lot of the big-namers I’ve worked with don’t actually incorporate much subtlety – so again I say this is personal preference. However, a lot of what I do as a mixer is all about subtleties, and often I spend a lot of time creating things that aren’t really heard, but felt. Quirks and imperfections can often be what makes a record really work. Something to chew on.


Anywhose, the whole of the article is here: 8 Things That Separate Pro vs Amateur Hip-Hop Producers . Basically it just includes an introduction and conclusion, but the points are as above.



The purpose of this list is to be a like a checklist. You might not need everything on that list for every production, but it isn't a bad idea to straight up print this list out and look over it while making a track.

I think #6 is the most important one.

[JoRillo]

Good post. I agree on all of it.

[Tnevz]

Much agreed

[fooloof]

good stuff. I needed to "hear" it.

[Clonkified]

Well thought-out. Nice job.

[Halma]

Hi Matt,

I am not quite sure if the above points separate an amateur from a pro but...

Originally Posted by Storyville

2. Dynamics

Following that idea – music needs contrast. If everything stays at the same volume, the hi-hat just ticking away, the snares and kicks hitting exactly the same – it doesn’t sound emotional. There’s no movement. Things need to hit differently to be believable.

Finding some subtle overall compression which does not kill your dynamics is one of those things I´m still working on (whether it´s a Hip Hop track or not). Nowadays everything sounds so much upfront.

It´s always a pleasure reading your stuff.

Good job.

[daez]

Very cool thread. Seems like a list of the things i pay the most attention to especially groove and dynamics. I would add consistency, and standards which are kind of one in the same. Always appreciate your threads story...

[KT1]

Agreed!

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Gearslutz.com

[projektk]

Great list, of course money seperates a pro from anybody. If you make money at anything you are a pro. But I get it, this list means pro as in skilled. However it's still a damn great list good work.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz.com

[keyque99]

Excellent article, Storyville.

One of the things that separates a pro from an amateur is having an electrical musical presence.

There's a big difference from this.

Eve ft. Gwen Stefani and Dr. Dre - Let Me Blow Ya Mind live - YouTube

To this:

Lana Del Rey - Video Games (Live on SNL) - YouTube

And it's not about style and tempo either, She just doesn't own the song like
say Sinéad O'Connor owned Nothing Compares 2 U.

If your a pro, make a special arrangement for your live performances.

And this last one many pros don't even do, use interesting chord changes, voicings and voice leading. Thank goodness for Mint Condition.

Mint Condition Live! Chris Daddy Dave killin' - YouTube

[CTodd901]

ill have to agree about the groove thing tho....i can never get my tracks to "feel" right to me for some reason even if i try to make my drums or whatever swing it feels soooo forced to me lol i think thats why i like using drum breaks so much

[KT1]

Originally Posted by CTodd901

ill have to agree about the groove thing tho....i can never get my tracks to "feel" right to me for some reason even if i try to make my drums or whatever swing it feels soooo forced to me lol i think thats why i like using drum breaks so much

Take the drum break you like chop up each shot ...the copy it via midi ..it will show you and help.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Gearslutz.com

[Dayl]

Great peice story, read it before though? didn't you link to it already? or did I read it while on your site.

Originally Posted by keyque99

Excellent article, Storyville.

One of the things that separates a pro from an amateur is having an electrical musical presence.

There's a big difference from this.


And it's not about style and tempo either, She just doesn't own the song like
say Sinéad O'Connor owned Nothing Compares 2 U.

If your a pro, make a special arrangement for your live performances.

Lana Del Rey is dropping an actual musical and stylistic gem of an album. I'm surprised people are still going on about the SNL performance, the band mix or TV mix was a mess also, and so she was nervous..it happens, she is new.. if people let her get over it, maybe her stage prescence will get better, but comparing an up rock party to that track is far from realistic. Maybe Thom Yorke? or similar, she still wouldn't look great but psssh lets be real.

Those special live performances have nothing to do with pro either, amatuers do it all the time also.

[JoeyXoto]

I smiled reading this. Makes me feel like a pro.

[trepbale]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izGZenABw84

[aaronsmith]

good read even from a non hip-hop producer.

[thisisfdr]

great read

[keyque99]

Originally Posted by Dayl

Lana Del Rey is dropping an actual musical and stylistic gem of an album.

In the end, the harsh truth for "musicians" to accept is that if it moves someone, it is good "music."

Most Heavy metal music ( Love rage against the machine) doesn't have Dynamics or Unique Moments i.e. peaks or valleys of contrast.

Groove, smooth Jazz is anything but groove but many people like that kind
of music. I love George Duke but most smooth Jazz is no better than elevator music.

Personally, I think the music business has turned into the Lyrical business/a
theatrical business.

Lyrics is the number one thing that sells a "Song"/ "Artist" today, not the music;otherwise, there wouldn't be a need to "remix" the song to other musical styles.

The second thing that sells an "Artist" today is their theatricality.

Are they good looking? Can they Dance? Are they outrageous?

The last thing that sells music today is music.

Dayl, I think Lana should change the key to her song because many of the low notes where out of her range. I don't think she's a singer. She whisper's, but hey Julio Iglesias made a whole career of whispering as well.

[JoRillo]

I think he article (although it applys for most music) wasn't based mainly at rap/hip-hop/r&b/pop and was more of a guideline then "do this or your an amateur". There are exceptions to everything.

[8tracks]

Originally Posted by KT1

Take the drum break you like chop up each shot ...the copy it via midi ..it will show you and help.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Gearslutz.com

Care to go in depth of your process?

[pdiddy boy]

Very interesting article... however like Chris Lago, I come from the school of thought that music has no set formular. Although I think its fair to say the points covered are the bread and butter of pro production... but the beauty for me in creativity is actually breaking the rules. Point 1. Groove and 7. Vocal Hook I believe have mophed over musical genes over the years ...I would say in the same way the English Language has evolved its kind of hard to explain but so obvious when you compare music from 2 different era's of the same musical gene. I think with the advent of laptops and QWERTY Keyboard Beat makers theres actually alot more programming rather than traditional playing going on. From the moment you press Quantise is that not programming ? This is my personal take coming from the whole euro sound I'm hearing out here in the UK.

So I would also agree with point 6 being the most important.

[Dayl]

Originally Posted by keyque99

In the end, the harsh truth for "musicians" to accept is that if it moves someone, it is good "music."

Most Heavy metal music ( Love rage against the machine) doesn't have Dynamics or Unique Moments i.e. peaks or valleys of contrast.

Groove, smooth Jazz is anything but groove but many people like that kind
of music. I love George Duke but most smooth Jazz is no better than elevator music.

Personally, I think the music business has turned into the Lyrical business/a
theatrical business.

Lyrics is the number one thing that sells a "Song"/ "Artist" today, not the music;otherwise, there wouldn't be a need to "remix" the song to other musical styles.

The second thing that sells an "Artist" today is their theatricality.

Are they good looking? Can they Dance? Are they outrageous?

The last thing that sells music today is music.

Dayl, I think Lana should change the key to her song because many of the low notes where out of her range. I don't think she's a singer. She whisper's, but hey Julio Iglesias made a whole career of whispering as well.

Fair call mate. One thing that I always liked about Rage though, was that they were one big unique moment and the things Morello did ... quite unique. Not a unique moment in the traditional sense but benefits the listener in the same way? This seems to make sense to me .. there needs to be something to catch people beyond a great hook (which is undeniable in itself Chris ).

Geourge Duke, Stanley Clarke, Grover... ah yes....

[daillman]

Fair points but one thing that i love about hiphop is that it follows no rules and basically anything goes, if all those rules work all the time we would all have hits by now. I think its tru for hiphop and many other styles of music that no matter what method you use what really makes a "Hit" hit is that "magic" and plenty of us having been chasing it for years but nice post and some great points you made....

[chris carter]

I agree with everything except 3. layering and 1. groove.

The layering thing, yeah it's a good skill and can really help take a record up a notch. But I know plenty of guys that KILL records that don't layer anything. So I don't know if I would say that separates ameteurs from pros.

The groove thing. Yeah groove is mandatory, but I don't think you can still get there with everything quantized. And I don't think playing it out, instead of programming it, is really required either. Sure, it's an important skill to have, and for a lot of records an absolute requirement. But at the same time I think 100% quantized records are very often exactly what's called for and is common. That said, the underlying principle of a good groove, of course!

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by Halma

Hi Matt,

I am not quite sure if the above points separate an amateur from a pro but...





Finding some subtle overall compression which does not kill your dynamics is one of those things I´m still working on (whether it´s a Hip Hop track or not). Nowadays everything sounds so much upfront.

It´s always a pleasure reading your stuff.

Good job.

I meant dynamics more in terms of macrodynamics - different velocities in the drum hits that support a groove. Sections that are bigger sounds or break down. Things change rather than being infinitely repeating.

[Storyville]

This isn't a formula, it's an observation. But it's also a reference point for people who might be wondering why their shit isn't working like their favorite producers'. Sometimes that idea is superimposed over sound quality - but the mix and master is really only one piece of the puzzle. The rest is all musical ideas. Creating groove, excitement, something unique but also captivating.

If you don't have to think about it, or don't want to think about it - don't. But if you're stuck in second gear and trying to merge into the fast lane - here's eight things to chew over that'll get you there.

[KT1]

Originally Posted by chris carter

I agree with everything except 3. layering and 1. groove.

The layering thing, yeah it's a good skill and can really help take a record up a notch. But I know plenty of guys that KILL records that don't layer anything. So I don't know if I would say that separates ameteurs from pros.

The groove thing. Yeah groove is mandatory, but I don't think you can still get there with everything quantized. And I don't think playing it out, instead of programming it, is really required either. Sure, it's an important skill to have, and for a lot of records an absolute requirement. But at the same time I think 100% quantized records are very often exactly what's called for and is common. That said, the underlying principle of a good groove, of course!

As a general observation i agree with Story but also accept and i think Matt would these points!

I programmed alll the drums in my sig track - didn#t play out any of it. It has more groove than 99% of the joints i hear so hey agreed. That being said the average programmer is not as competent as i am..I dont mean this to sound arrogant but it's the one the skill i have been doing practically for a very long time. So yes in general i Agree with Story that most guys who are wondering why they cant acheive it should try free form midi or audio recording yet agree it is not finite.

Same applies for your other point.

Good stuff.

[Dayl]

Originally Posted by KT1

That being said the average programmer is not as competent as i am..I dont mean this to sound arrogant but it's the one the skill i have been doing practically for a very long time.
Good stuff.

Are you sure you're NOT Danny Breaks?? lol

[Nahuel]

Interesting stuff.

On a more realistic note there is one thing separating the amateurs from the professionals: the income.

Sent from my GT-I5800 using Gearslutz.com App

[KT1]

Originally Posted by Dayl

Are you sure you're NOT Danny Breaks?? lol

..:o haha! Im a clutz..does that work..