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808's and actual kicks
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beat you down
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#1
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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808's and actual kicks

so i finally got my 808's decent.

but...

(depending on the kind of track, i know)

you guys layer them with actual kicks or just the 808?

if so... any insights?

thanks!
#2
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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I very rarely use just one. Layering. Doesnt matter where the layered kicks come from. U can even layer in a thin snare or hihat as click in your kick, just keep it quit. Use your imagination. U need bottom sub, thump and snap. And also important; remove some frequencies in between the mentioned 3 core areas by subtracting with an EQ plugin. Makes your kick(s) come through as punchier and clearer.
#3
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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yea...layer them with a punchy,less bassy Kick.... that way you can mute the 808 in and out if you desire ....... take a little of the attack off the 808if you layer it with a kick
#4
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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I usually layer with a short 808 kick. I actually filter out some of the lows from the longer 808 to let the thump come from the short kick and the "melody" come from the long kick. And I make sure both are in tune of course.
#5
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyTheProducer View Post
I usually layer with a short 808 kick. I actually filter out some of the lows from the longer 808 to let the thump come from the short kick and the "melody" come from the long kick. And I make sure both are in tune of course.
So would you high pass the long 808 at around 80-90hz and boost the short kick around 50-80hz?
#6
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
so i finally got my 808's decent.

but...

(depending on the kind of track, i know)

you guys layer them with actual kicks or just the 808?

if so... any insights?

thanks!
Yes, usually layer with punchier kicks.

BTW did you ever get that Battery problem figured out?
#7
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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Exactly... I play around with other settings, but I usually get the sound I want with that approach. And 9 times out of 10 some saturation on the long kick.
#8
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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Just repeating but yeah, layer the 808 with mid frequency kick (for the punch/thump element of the kick), and also try grab a higher frequency kick, but keep that quiet, just for a little top to the overall sound.
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#9
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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Make sure it's in the right key. All the layering in the world won't keep it from dragging your track down if it isn't.
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#10
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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thanks guys.

the extra (mid) layers change pitch with the 808 to stay in tune? i guess not right?

@ bender... yes i did. it's in the other thread.
it's a bug or something... once you copy all cells that seem corrupted into another instance of battery it works like it should.
#11
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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Quote:
And also important; remove some frequencies in between the mentioned 3 core areas by subtracting with an EQ plugin. Makes your kick(s) come through as punchier and clearer.
this will definitely help on keeping things clear. some freq's to look out for are the 100-400 range. this will obviously depend on your song, and what your bass track is doing. and in the higher register, you can usually cut 3-6k and not take away from your attack. your 100-200hz are your muddy range. especially if you're working with a very low end'y bass track. you wanna make sure that your bass track isn't stepping on your kick, and vice versa, otherwise, you're going to end up with blluuughhhahhlhhh. HA!
#12
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
thanks guys.

the extra (mid) layers change pitch with the 808 to stay in tune? i guess not right?

@ bender... yes i did. it's in the other thread.
it's a bug or something... once you copy all cells that seem corrupted into another instance of battery it works like it should.
So your saying you layer the kicks together and play it on 16 levels so they all switch together? I've been wondering about that too cause it makes it hard to EQ everything when they are getting pitched up and down throughout the track
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#13
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchGeist View Post
So your saying you layer the kicks together and play it on 16 levels so they all switch together? I've been wondering about that too cause it makes it hard to EQ everything when they are getting pitched up and down throughout the track
i don't, but i was wondering if others do.

i guess the problem would be the mid knock kick would fluctuate, you don't want that.

on the other hand... i'm ending up with messy undefined bass bumps when the layered kicks don't pitch up and down along with the 808's.

lol the frustration.
#14
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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Yeah you would have to automate a pitch change on each individual drum hit for it to mesh well I guess. My patterns end up messy when I layer multiple kicks then pitch all at once. It's just inconsistent
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21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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I usually pitch the "mid knock" kicks just like the 808s. It doesn't work everytime, but I actually like the effect of the mid bass coming in and out. I got that from Juicy J. If Im going to keep the layered kick static, I'll pick a more "hollow" sounding sample and try to find a note that works with the whole melody.
#16
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
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I layer.

Normally:

Put the 808 on its own choke group. Let the "normal" kick do its thing, but have each 808 cut the previous one off. I really like how thick it can keep the low end thick with out the weird build up from overlapping 808s.
#17
22nd January 2012
Old 22nd January 2012
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I usually use 808 style kicks to give my breaks a little more sub punch or if I am using it as an instrument alone Ill use a few multi oscillators and make 1 808 hit
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22nd January 2012
Old 22nd January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
...if I am using it as an instrument alone Ill use a few multi oscillators and make 1 808 hit
you design the 808 so it has some mid knock itself which pitches up and down also?
#19
22nd January 2012
Old 22nd January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
you design the 808 so it has some mid knock itself which pitches up and down also?
depends on my mood. Usually though if I need the mid knock Ill boost the mids via eq
#20
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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I simplified this for myself since overthinking ruined my songwriting/production.

I have a set of "base" drums that I use on every song. Kick, snare..hats..etc. The kick is more of a sub kick that adds weight and the snare mixes through real easy, but I also have an attack kick as well in case I need it.

Anyway, from there I just add in a kick and snare from whatever samples I want to use. So the drums never sound the same.
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#21
18th February 2012
Old 18th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
so i finally got my 808's decent.

but...

(depending on the kind of track, i know)

you guys layer them with actual kicks or just the 808?

if so... any insights?

thanks!

I find anything with a quick, short attack....a rim shot, cling, clang...and smooth the attack a bit on the 808.
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#22
19th February 2012
Old 19th February 2012
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depends on the track. Sometimes Ill use an 808 to boost the low end of a regular kick
#23
19th February 2012
Old 19th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyTheProducer View Post
I usually layer with a short 808 kick. I actually filter out some of the lows from the longer 808 to let the thump come from the short kick and the "melody" come from the long kick. And I make sure both are in tune of course.
Are these two kicks with the same pitch? Or are the pitches an octave apart, a 5th apart, or whatever.
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