Haas Effect on vocals
mikeswanmusic
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#1
17th January 2012
Old 17th January 2012
  #1
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Haas Effect on vocals

Hey guys! I'd like any advice you can give me about using the Haas effect on vocals. I've seen people talk about using it on guitars and other instruments but couldn't really find much helpful about vocals. Any tips, techniques, tricks would be much appreciated! Here's an example of what i'm talking about. It's on the background vocals in this song. Chantel Winn - NO MORE [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ] - YouTube
#2
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #2
Gear Head
 

bump..
#3
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #3
Gear addict
 

Pan duplicate channels to opposite extremes, with the right panned copy delayed 20-35 ms after the left.

The problem with leaving it in this condition is that the left side will appear louder than the right because it arrives at the ear first. You can boost the right panned copy by 2.5-3 dB to even out perceived volume, but the reality is that the right still is 2.5-3 dB louder.

A good way to counteract this is to put a second pair of duplicates (not of the same vocal file, must be a different take) and this time reverse the delay time: the left panned copy is delayed 20-35 ms after the right.

On the first pair of duplicates the left side will arrive at the ear first and appear louder. On the second pair the right side will arrive at the ear first appear louder. Stack them on top of each other and the volume will be equal on both sides.

Sorry if this was too basic for what you were looking for, not sure what you were asking.
MediaMix
#4
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #4
MediaMix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anstahc View Post
Pan duplicate channels to opposite extremes, with the right panned copy delayed 20-35 ms after the left.

The problem with leaving it in this condition is that the left side will appear louder than the right because it arrives at the ear first. You can boost the right panned copy by 2.5-3 dB to even out perceived volume, but the reality is that the right still is 2.5-3 dB louder.

A good way to counteract this is to put a second pair of duplicates (not of the same vocal file, must be a different take) and this time reverse the delay time: the left panned copy is delayed 20-35 ms after the right.

On the first pair of duplicates the left side will arrive at the ear first and appear louder. On the second pair the right side will arrive at the ear first appear louder. Stack them on top of each other and the volume will be equal on both sides.

Sorry if this was too basic for what you were looking for, not sure what you were asking.
You guys work too hard. Just insert Pro Tools short delay (or one like it in any daw) on the chosen background stereo vocal bus. Slide one side to 10-20ms and you're done. Volume will stay even and one side will lag behind creating the Haas spread.
#5
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #5
Gear addict
Record each take to 2 separate tracks with 2 different types of microphones separated by exactly 9.86 inches. Try it with the 409 close and the KM84 far. Pan hard.

Might sound terrible but hey, at least you'll know.

/measurement arbitrary?
#6
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #6
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Sampire's Avatar
 

just slap'er on there and play with the settings!

that's all I do.

for double overs, I just throw it on and don't even touch the settings at all.

if I use it on main takes, I'll put it on a send and adjust it just enough so that it's subtle but noticeably wider without sounding like a robot
#7
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #7
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaMix View Post
You guys work too hard. Just insert Pro Tools short delay (or one like it in any daw) on the chosen background stereo vocal bus. Slide one side to 10-20ms and you're done. Volume will stay even and one side will lag behind creating the Haas spread.
Volume will be even but it will be perceived louder on the side that arrives first. Also, any delay times less than 20 ms will sound awful in mono.
#8
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #8
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Sampire's Avatar
 

you can adjust that with the mix dial
#9
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anstahc View Post
Volume will be even but it will be perceived louder on the side that arrives first. Also, any delay times less than 20 ms will sound awful in mono.
That's not true. I been doing that for years since the Pro Tools Mix + days. That's an old trick w/ Digi Short Delay. It's a true stereo delay adjustable on both sides. One side doesn't dip lower than the other. You can do it with stereo synths as well. 20ms is some times way too far for what you are trying to be done. You don't want your background vocals spread further than any music/perc you may have spread. I do cymbals a little more drastic at 30-35ms. When using digi short delay one side will not be perceived louder/lower because it's not. Just wider.

Now if you try it with Waves H Delay you have to bring up the delayed side +5 on the output. But you also have to split the stereo into mono if it's stereo and jump thru a whole bunch of hoops. You don't have to do that with Digi short delay.
#10
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #10
Gear addict
I'm amazed at how far people won't go for cool sounds and what they won't even try.
Feeling lazy about some extra routing involved?
You don't even have to get up from the desk and patch a cable!
There is barely anyone "jumping through hoops" anymore. Maybe the circuit bending crowd.
Also, 20ms delay = phase cancellation in mono at 75 and 125hz or something like that... Shouldn't matter for most voices and melodies.
MediaMix
#11
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #11
MediaMix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manysounds View Post
Also, 20ms delay = phase cancellation in mono at 75 and 125hz or something like that... Shouldn't matter for most voices and melodies.
If you are doing the haas effect on a stereo vocal bus with all different stacks there will be no cancellation. you are not just splitting the same duplicated track in mono. You may have a stack of about 4-8 different vocal layers. There is a difference between trying new things and doing the least amount of steps to get the desired result. Time is money.
#12
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #12
Gear addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaMix View Post
If you are doing the haas effect on a stereo vocal bus with all different stacks there will be no cancellation. you are not just splitting the same duplicated track in mono. You may have a stack of about 4-8 different vocal layers. There is a difference between trying new things and doing the least amount of steps to get the desired result. Time is money.
Sorry, my bad. I never listened to the YouTube video the OP posted.


/grumble grumble auto-talent plugin grumble
#13
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #13
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