EQ's for hip hop style music

[Drayon]

e-cue, thrill here's one for u.

We spoke about various compressors that would be suitable for hip hop style music...that is not compressors that are used in rock.

The main sounds for EQ treatment would be Synth/Sampled Bass's (Subs and Mids), drums and perhaps pad sounds.

Often when heavy EQing is required for shaping basses we need several passes of EQ to get the desired boost...yes that often means overloading signals. Multing is the key here, splitting a bass in different frequencies and filtering, proccessing independently. The EQ on the Mackie board has a specific sound, on bass sounds. When boosting the mids heavily, it produces some raspy sharp sounds. Often we need to bus the EQ'ed signal to another channel to apply even more boost....noise is bit of a problem tho :-( gates be useful here?

Could you guys provide some EQ units that may be useful to me? I think perhaps 6 units would be enough EQ. thus far on my list i have :

1x CLM Dynamics Expounder
1x API 560B for sub bass

Aside from those i heard 'Pultec for meat of bass' not sure exactly which Pultec tho. The low end need to be as fat as possible, perhaps colored. At the same time id like dedicated EQ's for drum sounds. These often get treated similar to basses in the sense of multing (3 copies of same snare with different filters in the sampler to its own output so individual EQ can be applied).

thanks inadvance

[thethrillfactor]

Drayon,

E-cue basically covered most of what i was going to say.

When I mix bass, I mix it normally the way I mix a kick a split of three to four tracks(Sub Bass,Low bass and mids/highs). I normally like EQ's that show no phase shifts in the extreme ranges. I normally like API 560 or API 5502 on the sub, the Pultec EQP-1A on the low bass, and some kind of compressor/EQ combo for the mids(maybe Neve 32264a or Distressor/Moog EQ or Amek 9098/CIB),on the highs(or attack on a kick) I like the Transient Designer or Drawmer DS201 gate(hard gate with filter) with a GML 8200.


I don't advocate or teach compression on the entire sound of the Kick or Bass. I don't believe in it. It creates a phase shifts that steal away from the power of the bass.

By the way E-cue is totally right about the Tubetech "Pultec". I have never liked it, but a lot of guys I know and trust who mix Hiphop all the time swear by it.

[thethrillfactor]

By the way, about mixing snares, this is a post on something I might do:



http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...1&pagenumber=3



When mixing drum tracks it comes down to where are they at and where can they or should be.


Good luck.

[electronboy]

Often when heavy EQing is required for shaping basses we need several passes of EQ to get the desired boost...yes that often means overloading signals. Multing is the key here, splitting a bass in different frequencies and filtering, proccessing independently. The EQ on the Mackie board has a specific sound, on bass sounds. When boosting the mids heavily, it produces some raspy sharp sounds. Often we need to bus the EQ'ed signal to another channel to apply even more boost....noise is bit of a problem tho :-( gates be useful here?

You need an LC filter/ EQ, like a Pulltech or an Eckmiller. Not as many option than modern opamp based eqs, but if you want lots of low end that doesn't overlay other frequencies or sounds muddy the 40year plus resonance filters get the job done.

You probably want two in series with a strapping resistor on the first output (maybe a potentiometer that loads down from 600 down to 20 or everything in-between) to lower the noise and pull down the resonance to the required frequency, not the technical correct way but you get about 12 to 20dB an octave with lots off rumbling.

The Pulltech and Eckmiller are passive units, you either need a Westrex or a Siemens tube pre for buffering, our german commy brothers in the Russian Occupied Zone, build some resonance Eqs during the cold war for spying on telephone conversation, very effective and very good sound quality, as I ember they were called W733/734....

Compressor you need a good push/push tube compressor that has a frequency adjusted sidechain, you do not want to compress anything below 400Hz, ratio about 6 to 1, with a compression amplitude of about 20db. Than you run the same signal through an low end expander and finally a limiter to control the overload.

You have a nice none linear set up to boost the low end without sounding muddy, via the resonance eq you shape your tone. It gives you the eardrum blowing testicle crushing low end without loosing to much. You also need a peak program meter to get the highest dynamic without overloading you storage medium digital storage is better for your application due to the higher dnamic range, so you can go to the cliff without jumping into overload.

Regards,

Wilhelm T.

[jazzius]

Do what?

[jazzius]

Hey e-cue, how's the Will.i.am album coming along (release date?)

[Teacher]

another nomination for e-cue and the thrillfactor as guest mods???

or at least an appreciation thread...when these guys answer a question there is NO detail left out...i love it

thanks!

P.S. e-cue i'll be sending the CD prolly tommorrow...its all 'ruff mixes'

[e-cue]

Originally posted by jazzius
Hey e-cue, how's the Will.i.am album coming along (release date?)

Long story. The record has been done for a while, but there is/was some kind of legal hold up. It should be out now. It's called "Must b 21". The 2 songs you might wanna check out on the MP3 theft networks are "Take It" (with KRS-One) and "Go!". "Take It" was the 1st time I got to use reverb on a kick drum, successfully, in a long time.

Jazzius- have you had a chance to use the IBIS in non-mastering situations?

Originally posted by Teacher
another nomination for e-cue and the thrillfactor as guest mods???

What's the point? We are always here anyway.


Another eq on the cheepy-cheep-cheep front, is a used Speck 316. It's only semi parametric, and that will hold you back, but you can find them under $600us(and upward to $3,000 which is silly) for 16 channels. DJ Quik uses them. Just makes sure they come with the wallwart with has a hard to find connector on it into the unit.

Okay, I gotta go- someone desperately wants to check their ebay auction and I've got in the only net connection in this project studio.

[Renie]

Originally posted by e-cue

What's the point? We are always here anyway.

1.You and thrill are normally responding not setting out discussions and debates.

2. People here might feel there is more permission to ask you both direct questions

But maybe there's not much in it for you!!??

[Klaseed]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for all the info in this thread, I've got some great ideas to try out from it.

My situation is such that space is at a premium, and I can't really afford a rack full of EQs anyway, no matter how much I want to. So, I'm going to need an EQ that is pretty versatile, as both drums and bass will need to get EQd through it, plus whatever else needs some toneshaping. For this, I'm thinking the Red 2 might come in handy. But (this is the important question), how does the Red 2 handle the bottom end? I realize it's probably not going to do what a Pultec could, but would it give me anything worth talking about?

I do drum n bass, btw. While there's lots of differences between dnb and hip-hop, the bottom end is pretty much all-important in both, so I think there's some loverlap in these techniques...

Thanks again.

[e-cue]

I'm not a Red fan. The mid range around the 8K range is decent, maybe on something like snares, but it's much better suited for other genres of music like rock, or what have you. An SSLG board eq (actually any SSL board eq's) would be much more useful in that situation. Actually, if I was doing drums n bass (like,DJ Motiv8) and I was in your shoes, I'd rather just use the Bombfactory Pultec plug in. I know that might not be a popular thing to do, but it works for me.

[jazzius]

e-cue.........no chance to use the Ibis in non-mastering applications as yet........that will change later in the year with some mixes/productions coming up (by which time you'll have heard it for yourself I'm sure)..........i'm certain the "color" feature will have some unique mixing possibilities...........the hi-end is sweeter then a muthur-farker......can't wait for my massive passive to come (next week?)......meanwhile busy soldering 2000ft of Mogami 3080 grudge.....

.....lates

[8bit]

Hi Ecue

Just a quick mult question when working in software.

Do you Bus the original track to other tracks to set up the mult? Or do you just copy the whole audio track maybe four times and then set up each chain, compenstate for plug delay, and mix levels?

I find in software the phase problems are much more apparent.

Any advice?

many thanks

[e-cue]

Originally posted by 8bit
Hi Ecue

Just a quick mult question when working in software.

Do you Bus the original track to other tracks to set up the mult? Or do you just copy the whole audio track maybe four times and then set up each chain, compenstate for plug delay, and mix levels?

I find in software the phase problems are much more apparent.

Any advice?

I copy the tracks- audio and all. The main reason I do this is because I manipalute audio a lot, and sometimes only want to manipulate certain tracks. Most of the time I just use time adjuster, but if DSP is an issue, I'll nudge accordingly.

When you mention phase problems, do you mean like phase shift, or something less subtle like a flanging? Channelstrip is a bitch when doing the mult-method when it comes to phase. I'll get it sounding banging, and add it with the other tracks and everything falls apart.

Using the plug in's I mentioned of the other thread, I haven't noticed phase problems at all, unless I don't time adjust the channels.

[8bit]

When you mention phase problems, do you mean like phase shift, or something less subtle like a flanging? Channelstrip is a bitch when doing the mult-method when it comes to phase. I'll get it sounding banging, and add it with the other tracks and everything falls apart.

Hi E-cue

Generally i find that in Pro tools, you really need to seperate the bands much more on each mult otherwise you do get that subtle flanging. I find that on my console (neotek elite II) when multing this is less important. I guess this is because channels on a desk are not indentical as opposed to when you copy audio tracks.

Do you tend to really split up each band, frequency wise, without much overlap?

Thanks again

PS Also thanks for your advice when i got my console, totally love it.

I used to overthink this type of stuff when I first came around. Should I get this or should I get that. Now I have pretty much narrowed down exactly what I want thorough using borrowed gear or trying out stuff in studios. I am doing hip hop/RnB pretty much exclusively and my wish list is (This is what I'm saving for instead of going to an HD system

Whirlwind Active di's
Dangerous 2 bus (maybe LT)
Vintech x73
2 dbx 160xt's
2 Api 550b's
and maybe a distressor

To complement the single dbx 160xt, Manley Stereo pultec, and NTI EQ3 I currently have.
I have to say I have been getting it done with plugins (Though I think it has made me work harder than I would with outboard)

Man a week ago I pulled some plugins off the 2 bus of an old mix and tried a friend's Avalon 747. It was alot nicer (can't wait till I can get my EQ3 repaired)


Which Plug would you guys reccomend as a 550b ish replacement?

Thus far I have been using filter /compressor bank, BF Pultec, and Ren EQ and comp (cant forget the stock Digi comp Thanks for the heads up e-cue!). Once I settled in on not taking no for an answer and getting it done with what I have it has started to happen. I'm not totally where I want to be but my list is alot shorter than it used to be because I don't feel as far away as I used to. Though I could use some more DSP. If Digi gets the delay correction together I may go to the New HD stuff in the future however since I know they are in the HARDWARE business I think it might be wise to let a few systems pass before jumping in on the new shyt since they will always have to make incremental release stuff.

Hopefully Mix farm cards will go down

But I think Adding analog to my Mix system is the way to go for now


As usual those who have more experience than me can feel free to make recommendations for my list of things I can omit or things I have forgotten.

2 or three things that I omitted

a U5 or other DI maybe little labs (for instruments that don't come from synths)

and maybe 2 more comps like maybe an Smart or a Vari MU

then down the line later
a Blue Pultec EQP-1a
and some Tube Tech stuff (EQP-1a, CL1-B)

[Jules]

Welcome to August 2005!