MEGA THREAD: Are You New To Engineering?

[incongru]

Yeah you're right when you say it coud go on and on...
I tell you what: don't change anything and once you threw
the theory in there, I'll try to bring the lost sheeps to
appreciate the power of the dark side eeh

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by pirell

most of what u guys are talkling about is mics. how bout some mixing tips, layering..and compression.

mixing pianos and strings, making them (strings) sound phat. etc.

Hey Pirell,

Sorry to make you feel left out. There are some differences in the approach to working with real acoustic instruments v soft synths.
If you wish to create a good real piano sound then you will need to consider several things in advance. So here are a few questions that I would consider firstly.

Is the player any good?
Is the quality of the piano good and has it been tuned recently?
Do I have a high quality pair of capacitor microphones?
Is the piano set up in a decent acoustic environment?
Do I have good quality pre amps?

If the answers are yes to all of the above, you stand a good chance to make a very good acoustic recording of a piano. The reason why I stated a pair of capacitor microphones is because you will most definitely want to make a true stereo recording. The piano lid should be open with your microphones stand mounted, and separated by around 5 feet, aimed at the left and right hand keys on the piano. It can take some time to get the sound balanced correctly, this is why in many studios, the mics or at least the stands are kept in place at all times. I would also consider using a pair of PZM mics to capture the room sound. The piano without any doubt is designed to take advantage of a space with good acoustics. If you are using a soft piano sound then some artificial reverb will really help make a big difference to the sound.

A similar approach is used when recording string sections. Always use stereo mic techniques, and experiment with placement until the desired sound balance is achieved. You can thicken the sound by double or triple tracking, or during mixing a digital delay can be used. If you are using soft strings then there are many things that can be done to achieve a thicker or fatter sound.
As one example, suppose you have recorded a track of strings. You could easily copy these to another two tracks. Now detune the first copy by –5 cents, and then the other copy by +5 cents and leave the original track alone. When you play this back, your ears will calculate the overall pitch as being perfectly in tune because it compares the sum and difference of the two slightly out of tune tracks that are out by an equal but opposite amount and the brain does the rest of the work. The result is a thicker sounding track. You could now add some chorus and a little reverb as well to complete the job.

Another favourite of mine is using digital delay. In many cases a nice little in time delay can add a huge lift to drums, vocals and many other things. To calculate the in time delay what you should do is take 60 / BPM X 1000 If you had a tempo of 120 BPM then 500 millisecs or 0.5 of a second is your in time delay, multiples of this number will also fit. 250 ms, 125 etc. or just use 60 000 / BPM. It all depends on whether you prefer a whole note, half note, or quater note delay You can even set the level of the delayed sound quite low in the mix so that you cannot even hear it unless it is isolated. It is amazing how it will pull things together that you can hear. This works great on vocals and guitars.

Tommy

[PAGUY07]

I had a question, Im recording Into a Yamaha Aw16-G. Im looking to upgrade big time right now i have NO booth I record In a spare bedroom in the house. I have a cheap $100 mic (This is the 1st thing ima upgrade) Anyone have any suggestions for other gear to accomodate the aw16? Would i need a pre amp? compressor? Also i see mics listed here for rap/r&b but is there any that would suit to the aw16 well?


Thanks in advance!

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The Digidesign 002r is a good system for the typical bedroom producer...

Yeah although the preamps in it are not very high quality right? But it is a handy thing if you want to go ProTools, but maybe it would be better to buy another pre amp like a good quality Focusrite or Joemeek

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by DWINC

Yeah although the preamps in it are not very high quality right? But it is a handy thing if you want to go ProTools, but maybe it would be better to buy another pre amp like a good quality Focusrite or Joemeek

Yes, I recommend an external mic preamp with ANY converter, whether it has pre's built-in or not....

[incongru]

Originally Posted by PAGUY07

I had a question, Im recording Into a Yamaha Aw16-G. Im looking to upgrade big time right now i have NO booth I record In a spare bedroom in the house. I have a cheap $100 mic (This is the 1st thing ima upgrade) Anyone have any suggestions for other gear to accomodate the aw16? Would i need a pre amp? compressor? Also i see mics listed here for rap/r&b but is there any that would suit to the aw16 well?


Thanks in advance!

Hi PAGUY!

What is the maximum budget you fixed for a mic and preamp?

Other than that, I can't think of anything very useful with a aw16...

next time you upgrade, get a computer, a good interface and a recording software.
Because from what I read on the specs the sound has no problem going in that thing but it's a different story to get it out...except if burnt on a cd....
So if you're thinking outboard like a compressor as you said you'll only be able to use it as a pre-recording device and not during the mixing process....poor compressor

Or maybe sell the aw16 and go directly for that configuration...
That would allow MUCH MORE possibilities (and much more fun!)

[PAGUY07]

well today i bought an Protools MBOX to run off my Ibook. I hooked my mic to it, not bad quality but not the best! So now i can say im working with protools mbox. And my budget foir a new mic 500-600 bucks!@


LET ME KNOW

[incongru]

Originally Posted by PAGUY07

well today i bought an Protools MBOX to run off my Ibook. I hooked my mic to it, not bad quality but not the best! So now i can say im working with protools mbox. And my budget foir a new mic 500-600 bucks!@


LET ME KNOW

For that price go for a Baby Bottle (blue microphones)
or a dolly (violet design) or a JZ6 (JZ recordings)
These three are the same mic, just the colour (the actual colour not the sound colour)is different.
It would definitely suit a MBox! The preamps tend to hum when pushed to high and these mics are very sensitive (33mV/Pa) and have very low IEN: 5.5 dBA.
Go check-out everything about them on the companies'websites.
The latest made is the JZ6 if ever...and in my opinion the classiest in terms of design.
These three mics are really worth more than what they cost...can't go wrong with them as they are very polyvalent!

[PAGUY07]

ok my brother just called me and told me he has a $800 credit to american musical supply (they sell all kinds of mics and stuff)

for that price i can get the following mics (what one would be best suited for rap vocals recorded on to an MBOX) I FEEL LIKE A PAIN INT HE ASS BUT YOU GUYS KNOW YOUR SHIT! AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET THE RIGHT THING!

SE Electronics Gemini Dual Tube Microphone with Shock Mount

AKG C3000B Condenser Microphone with Suspension Mount

AKG C3000B Condenser Microphone


ONCE AGAIN THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!

[PAGUY07]

ok my brother just called me and told me he has a $800 credit to american musical supply (they sell all kinds of mics and stuff)

for that price i can get the following mics (what one would be best suited for rap vocals recorded on to an MBOX) I FEEL LIKE A PAIN IN THE ASS BUT YOU GUYS KNOW YOUR SHIT! AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET THE RIGHT THING!

http://www.americanmusical.com/sort-...pic-false.html


ONCE AGAIN THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!

[incongru]

Originally Posted by PAGUY07

ok my brother just called me and told me he has a $800 credit to american musical supply (they sell all kinds of mics and stuff)

for that price i can get the following mics (what one would be best suited for rap vocals recorded on to an MBOX) I FEEL LIKE A PAIN INT HE ASS BUT YOU GUYS KNOW YOUR SHIT! AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET THE RIGHT THING!

SE Electronics Gemini Dual Tube Microphone with Shock Mount

AKG C3000B Condenser Microphone with Suspension Mount

AKG C3000B Condenser Microphone


ONCE AGAIN THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!

Well between these three I would go for the gemini (even if I've been disappointed with SE electronics...but different mic, different story.)
I've read a lot of posts on this forum saying that studio project mics are unbeatable in their price range...never heard one myself though.
If some one here owns one it would be cool to describe how it sounds
and to compare to other mics.

[TonyBelmont]

The Gemini never worked for me on vocals... I preferred the Z5600a over the Gemini.

[incongru]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The Gemini never worked for me on vocals... I preferred the Z5600a over the Gemini.

Funny.....that's exactly the model I came to despise
and I've used it mainly for vocals...
It's just too bright in my opinion...
And I feel that this over-present high end is agressive.
..But again that's just me...

[PistolP]

what most people don't know (and I didn't 4 years ago) when they start is
that the first investment should go for the proper hearing conditions (room, monitors, converters).
I am a songwriter/producer rather than mixing engineer but as a producer you must make wright decisions when choosing sounds or recording instruments. it all comes down to the source material. if it s**ks there is small possibility that the mix and master will ever sound fabulous.

I wish I had someone to tell that me when I started. it would have made big difference to me.

bstrgrds
Pete

[PAGUY07]

sorry guys i had a huge list of mics available to me but for some reason only them 3 showed up!!!! heres a list of mics i can buy, What one would be best for rap vocals recording to pro tools@!


SE Electronics Gemini Dual Tube Microphone with Shock Mount

SE Electronics Titan Studio Microphone with Shock Mount and Case

Neumann TLM103 Studio Microphone

AKG C414BXLS Condenser Microphone with Shock Mount

Shure KSM44 Studio Condenser Microphone with Shock Mount

RODE K2 Studio Tube Condenser Microphone with Shock Mount

SE Electronics Z5600A Tube Microphone with Hard Case, Shock Mount, Accessories

Studio Projects LSD2 Dual Capsule Stereo Mic

Studio Projects T3 Multipattern Tube Microphone

RODE NT2000 Variable Dual Diaphragm Studio Condenser Microphone

M Audio Sputnik Multipattern Tube Microphone

Shure KSM32 Studio Condenser Microphone with Shock Mount

SE Electronics Z3300A Studio Condenser Microphone

AKG Studio Pak Microphone Package with C4000B and C1000S Microphones

RODE NTK Tube Condenser Microphone

RODE NT1A Matched Pair Condenser Microphones with Shockmounts and Case

Audio Technica AT4050 Studio Condenser Microphone with AT8449 Shockmount


AKG C4000B Condenser Microphone with Suspension Mount

RODE NT2A Variable Pattern Condenser Microphone

CAD TRION 8000 Multi Pattern Studio Tube Microphone

Audio Technica AT 4033 CL Studio Condenser Microphone with Shock Mount

Joe Meek Track Pack Microphone Package with JM37-DP Mic and ThreeQ Preamp and Accessories

SE Electronics SE2A Condenser Studio Michophone with 3 Capsules and Shock Mount

Shure KSM27 Studio Condenser Microphone (with Shock Mount)

[incongru]

go check-out this website:

www.microphone-data.com

you just need to register and then you'll have access to a HUGE mic database.
you can check all the specs of the mics you've listed and narrow your choice.
Then maybe it will be useful to ask comments about the ones left.
With a list like that you're likely to get a lot of answers, create a lot of arguments between the nerds hanging here (i'm including myself ) and finally you'll end up being more confused than ever in your life.....
just because there will always be someone here who likes a mic that another poster hates.
pick a few models and choose the one that has the most positive overall comments.

I remember searching all around this forum to decide which headphone I would buy between HD650 and DT770.
I swear it was awful....if anyone has done the same kind of search I'm sure they understand exactly what I mean!

[B SHAMAN]

yo PAGUY,

on the whole mic thang i aint a expert but i read some sh t tony was sayin in another thread, an coupled wit the experience i do got as a emcee/composer, dungeon engineer type cat here goes;

save some cash on the mic, go lower mang, for like a shure sm57, sm58, or beta 58a, they all under 100, work hand-held as well as mounted for gettin mad ill in the lab. as a emcee i can tell you my best takes is done killin it wit a handheld like that (i got a shure beta 58a).

but thas only part of it.

if you in a bedroom wit no sound absorption or isolation or anything you dont want some cardiod condenser on a stand thas gonna pick up yer roommate doin his girl upstairs or somethin. trust me mang, i got a 100 dollar condenser mic first thing an it sound nice when i can get peace an quiet, but wit a small room i aint got space or money for the environment you need to reap the rewards... sound to me like you dont neither, see?

plus tony be sayin mad cats you prolly got respect for done recorded on a sm57 or sm58. i forget what thread is in, but maybe he can confirm over here for us.

spend that extra 700 you save on a dope pre-amp or dbx or somethin. an monitors, mang. dont be producin off some home stereo speakers that sh t gonna wreck you first time you pop a mix into yer car stereo. beginnin of this thread tony said 'big sky' monitors or somethin, i dunno if they any good but even jus some $200 monitors be better than some consumer-type sh t.

thas jus my two cents, hopefully one o these smarter cats tell you more i aint got no degree, but i do produce in a little ass room wit no bank.

peace,
-b

[B SHAMAN]

o snap, i just replied to a month-old post. im guessin he got a mic by now.

peace yall
-b

[frank lyon]

Great thread.

So good, that I had to go register and say so.

Thanks everybody.

[No4PCs]

Originally Posted by PAGUY07

I had a question, Im recording Into a Yamaha Aw16-G.

Hi friend, why you need a Protools and the computer?
You have an excellent recorder Yamaha, is all you need.
You can transffer the audio to ptotools to make the "demo" mix of your song.
I think if you buy Protools and mbox or whatever box-name you only will make a "demo"mix to show for the pro studio engineer make the final mix. For that pourpose the the protools will be cool.
Because in the hi-end studio the experienced engineer have all pro-tools to make the thing really good.

[Gambooby]

hey,
im getting either an mpc 2000xl or mpc 60.
what should i get next and next and next... further on.

should i get a mixer and a turntable for it?
if so, what kind?

[sp1200]

I'm looking for some clarification on mixing and where things should sit in the stereo field:

Drums: Should the drums be sampled in mono and placed in a stereo or mono track and panned there, or sampled in stereo and placed in a stereo track? Kick centered?

Guitars: Sampled stereo or mono and panned?

Bass: Mono and center in the mix?

Thanks!

[DaVeSaNiTy]

Thank you, Tony, but I was just wondering if I could get any tips, tricks, techniques or just a general overview on mixing rap vocals. I read most of the forum and I havn't found anything about mixing rap vocals. So please, can someone tell me a good preset or something?!

[studiorat]

Originally Posted by tgrokz

i have worked with the 414 many many times. i dont like it at all. i was told how good it was by my teacher, but no thank you. if it were $400 i would get it. not 800 or 900 though. i odnt exactly know what it is i dont like about it, but i can tell you that i have used it for rap and i was not happy with the results.

upon using said microphone did you ever figure out what it was you didnt like?? Because every source is different, and this being said is your use of the microphone correct?? you know was the pre amp set proper??
was it the midrange spike you get, when using it flat? These mics are notorius for being a little colored in the mids, I guess its a matter of opinion But this has been a "GO TO " mic for a lot of us and if it was a bad choice
why would we use it??? I am not saying there isnt any validity to what you said However; try it again with a different artist and then re-evaluate!! and as well thats why we have many mics for many types of situations maybe the 80.00 sm 57 by shure is the right one, who's to say... not all mics work for all applications good luck and happy tracking

[studiorat]

Originally Posted by sp1200

I'm looking for some clarification on mixing and where things should sit in the stereo field:

Drums: Should the drums be sampled in mono and placed in a stereo or mono track and panned there, or sampled in stereo and placed in a stereo track? Kick centered?

Guitars: Sampled stereo or mono and panned?

Bass: Mono and center in the mix?

Thanks!

well mixing is an engineer specific thing each of us has their own answers as to this i for one do not like mono drums, the kick and snare for me are always in the center on seperate tracks!!!! I do however love sampled drums filtered and brought in under a drum track as a loop and massively compressed (to squeez the life out of it!!) i like a wide stereo image with every thing in its own space guitars very up front and in your face not hard panned but at like 10 and 2 ( if lookin at a clock) and a bass needs to be in the center for me as to give substance and fill up the low end space expieriment thats what its all about

[Mixed_Breed]

Shure SM57 - I noticed you listed this mic. Is it true that this is mostly an instrument mic and the Shure SM58 mostly a vocal mic? How is the Shure Beta 58A in comparison to the SM58?

How well is a Audio Technica AT3035 mic?

Is it true that it is better to go with a large diaphragm condensor mic than a dynamic mic when home recording? What are the pro's and con's of each (short but sweet)?

How do the Digi 002 (rack and control surface) and the M-Audio Project Mix I/O (and the M powered) compare to one another (short and sweet)? I heard the project mix is a better bang for your buck and that it is universal (with many programs) where the 002 is limited to only Pro-Tools.

How do the blue sky (basic setup of 2.1) and rokit rp-5's (or rp6's, or 8's) compare to one another?

I am asking this because I want real world application answers as compared to the copied specs offered by all sites selling the equipment which is written by the manufacturer(s). I am very new to everything and would like some answers to know where to put my tight budget money.

Thanks to all who reply.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by Mixed_Breed

How do the blue sky (basic setup of 2.1) and rokit rp-5's (or rp6's, or 8's) compare to one another?

Just a heads up....
If you end up choosing a 5inch woofer monitor, as soon as you start getting into some heavy mixing work, you will be begging for bigger monitors to hear more of the bass in your mixes.
From my own experience, I think its best to either look at an 8inch if you got the money for it right now, or grab a 5 or 6inch for now since you can get ones that are of great quality but for a more affordably price due to their size, and shell out to get a subwoofer monitor to fill in the low end monitoring later when you have more cash.

If you ever get the thought of going with 8'inch rokits, save up some more dough and shell out for Mackie HR824s, they are coming out with the mkII to that model, so you can pick up the old HR824s for a discounted price at the moment.

[Turi]

I just thought I'd mention for people on a budget, that the new Samson USB CO1U condenser mic gives a great performance, I get a very clean sound out of it, and the software pre-amp works very well.

[djfather]

This is my first time so i hope iom doing this right. my question, is cakewalk a good software to use, i know the market go for pro tools but i dont have enough customers to know if i want to advance that far so i want to start small but i dont wan to learn it and then decide to go for pro tools and it a different ball game. what is a good starter software