MEGA THREAD: Are You New To Engineering?

[beyarecords]

Hi,
you guys may find this site an interesting read (Mic tips used by Timbaland and Dre):

http://www.backstage-lounge.com/stor...storycode=5687

Blessings and Love

Beya

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by beyarecords

Hi,
you guys may find this site an interesting read (Mic tips used by Timbaland and Dre):

http://www.backstage-lounge.com/stor...storycode=5687

Blessings and Love

Beya

That's an EQ Magazine article from a few years ago...

[Dino]

Hey Peoples!

My current set up is a Laptop, one AKG C1000s Mic (that I haven't taken out the case since buying it earlier this year) and BlueSky Media 2.1 Monitors that are connected directly to my Laptop.
My question is..well I have two:

I've been advised by a couple people in this forum to get an Audio Interface, but first of all I'm not sure what one is exactly.

So...What exactly is an Audio Interface, what does it do? And Why do I need one (I'm pretty sure I do..but I'd like to understand why)?

My second Question: My Strict Budget for an Audio Interface is £200.00 ($400.00) Maximum for now... What good ones can I find for that sort of price range? Recommendations would be really great. Tony Belmont Mentioned a Mackie Onyx a few weeks ago.

cheers guys

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by Eager2Know

I got a small question

I have seen Engineers use monitor headphones to "(p)recheck" their mix. What's the deal with that? Is it useful? Or to put it in other words, what can be "checked" with it? Stereomix?

If it's a good idea to do so, which headphone models would you consider buying? I've heard AKG has some good monitor headphones, is there another brand?


Cheers,
Eager2know

Not sure if you meant studio mixing or live sound mixing. I will assume that you meant studio mixing.
The reason I mention this is because there are some other reasons why you would see a live sound engineer use headphones during a gig.
Many people like to check the mix by using headphones; there are several good reasons for this. Firstly, any room where mixing is being done will have some effect on what you are hearing, therefore the use of headphones will let you hear the mix without the room sound included.

Another good reason is to check the stereo imaging of the mix.
When we listen to the mix in front of a pair of speakers sound from the left speaker reaches the right ear and vice versa so it can confuse our perception a little. The use of headphones provides 100% separation between the left and right channels.
Checking the mix through headphones can be very helpful, and more often than not you will find yourself-noticing things that were not sitting quite right in the mix.
Checking for distortion, pops and clicks etc, all become more noticeable when using headphones. There are no rules that say you cant mix entirely on headphones but you need to be careful because bass response will vary a lot depending on how they fit your head. It is very important that you know your headphones well, this will tell you a lot about how your mix will sound when played elsewhere.

Hope this helps
Tommy

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by Dino

Hey Peoples!

My current set up is a Laptop, one AKG C1000s Mic (that I haven't taken out the case since buying it earlier this year) and BlueSky Media 2.1 Monitors that are connected directly to my Laptop.
My question is..well I have two:

I've been advised by a couple people in this forum to get an Audio Interface, but first of all I'm not sure what one is exactly.

So...What exactly is an Audio Interface, what does it do? And Why do I need one (I'm pretty sure I do..but I'd like to understand why)?

My second Question: My Strict Budget for an Audio Interface is £200.00 ($400.00) Maximum for now... What good ones can I find for that sort of price range? Recommendations would be really great. Tony Belmont Mentioned a Mackie Onyx a few weeks ago.

cheers guys

The audio interface will be the piece of kit that lets you connect your microphone as well as other things to your computer. The interface will normally use USB cable to connect to the PC, and will provide inputs and outputs which will let you use a balanced XLR cable for the mic, and let you connect your monitors to the outputs.
You will also have control over the level reaching the speakers, although the blue sky are active i believe.
Well at least you wont need to adjust the level constantly at the rear of the speakers.

The actual interface you will require will depend on how many inputs you plan to connect simultaneously. It may also provide phantom power, which you will need unless you are happy to use the C1000 with its internal battery.
If your recording is to be basic, then you wont go far wrong with a digidesign Mbox.
This interface will work with most recording software, Pro-tools LE is included in the price. You don’t need to buy brand new, there are many second hand M boxes on the market for around £100.
The audio interface is likely to contain better quality audio converters than that of the standard sound cards found in most computers, so you also enjoy better sound reproduction.

Hope this helps,
Tommy

[Dino]

WOW!

Thanks loads for the helpful info Tommy.

[Lefrançais]

Hi Tony,

When you work with logic pro, what is monitoring chain ?
How can you make the singer hear himself when recording ? do you split the output of the GTQ-2 ? going to a desk ? or do you use this kind of stuff: http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?p=985222 ? what if the singer wants reverb but you want to record the voice "dry" ? what converter do you use ? Do you plug you headphones (or headphone preamp) directly on your soundcard ?
thx

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by Biggsheff

I'm still pretty new to mixing and I have a few newbie questions if someone doesnt mind answering.

1. When mixing the levels of a track what is the highest peak I should let each channel hit without going over? Like -10, -5, -3 etc...

2. Should the Master fader stay at 0db ?

3. If I try to master the track myself an run it through a Waves L1 or L2, what kinda reading on the meter am I tryin to get close to? Get it as close to 0db with out going over or in some cases I've read -3.

Sorry if these are really dumb questions. I'm using Cubase 3 if it helps any.

Well it is better to feel dumb for 5 minutes and ask, than not to ask and feel dumb forever. Old Chinese proverb.

When mixing using computer software, try to avoid any track clipping into the red, that is the most important thing. If you are mixing instruments with sharp transients such as drums it is best to leave some headroom to avoid transient distortion, it might be a good idea to use a compressor to guard against overloads.
Try to monitor using peak meters when you are not sure, rather than VU meters as these wont catch the transients. At the end of the day, if it sounds right, then it is right.

It is normal practice to try to have your stereo master sitting at 0 VU although in most cases you can push up or pull back a little if necessary. The sum levels of all your channels should not cause the main stereo meter to exceed 0. If it does, do not correct this by simply pulling down the master fader. Go back to the mixing channels and find out what is the cause. It could be an over loud kick drum, or maybe the channel mix levels are set too high.

When using the waves L1 or L2, it really depends on the genre of music you are mixing and what type of sound you are after. For example, if you are mixing dance music, you are unlikely to be over concerned about the dynamics that you would expect to hear in classical music. I find that most pop and dance music is heavily compressed. On this type of music there are two main advantages. Firstly, the mix can sound tighter, and secondly it can be made to sound much louder. If you want your master to sound as loud as other commercial recordings then you will get this result with the waves L1 or L2 processor at the expense of squashing the dynamics.

OK here is how it can be done.
Set the out ceiling to –0.1 this will cause compression to take place on any signal that attempts to exceed this level. Now as you pull down the threshold to around –6dB you should notice the attenuation meter pushing downwards in red.
Don’t be over concerned about the red light on the out ceiling meter as anything above –0.1 is now what you see on the gain reduction meter.
What is happening here is that all signal levels that are attempting to go over the out ceiling are now being compressed with a fixed high ratio setting.
Now if you look at the waveform of your master recording, you will notice that it looks rather flat. Do not show this to a classical musician or you might get shot on the spot. Like I said, as far as dance music goes, this is what gets done these days. Having said that, you do not have to pull down the threshold this much if you are looking to preserve the dynamics. You can simply make your track a little louder by pulling the threshold down until the out ceiling reading is just approaching the 0 level, but the end result will probably not sound as loud.

Please note that these comments are my opinions and are not hard and fast rules. Someone will always argue against anyone else’s audio engineering techniques. Learn what you can from everyone and most of all enjoy.

I hope this will help you a little.
Tommy

[beyarecords]

Hi,
in the world of ITB -6dB is all important, the reasons for are which thoroughly explained here:

Q for Paul Frindle

The thread is called 'Q for Paul Frindle'. There are some real heavy hitters here who know their stuff back to front, and in my opinion this thread should be made a sticky and compulsive reading for all those interested in crafting their ITB mixes!

Read it, word for word, and when you've finished, read it again!

Blessings and Love

Beya

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Lefrançais

Hi Tony,

When you work with logic pro, what is monitoring chain ?
How can you make the singer hear himself when recording ? do you split the output of the GTQ-2 ? going to a desk ? or do you use this kind of stuff: http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?p=985222 ? what if the singer wants reverb but you want to record the voice "dry" ? what converter do you use ? Do you plug you headphones (or headphone preamp) directly on your soundcard ?
thx

I send the microphone to my preamp (either GTQ or 1073, or sometimes a Pacifica)... Then I compress a little and hit the converter.

I use a Mac Pro and a 002, which is capable of very low latency and I get away with 32 or 64 sample buffers. It's still not perfect, but it works for now (I'm hoping to get into a new converter at some point, probably a Fireface).... I send the outputs of the DAW to a headphone box and that's what the artist hears. If I add reverb, it's on a bus which is blended in, so the latency doesn't effect the rapper.

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by tgrokz

i have worked with the 414 many many times. i dont like it at all. i was told how good it was by my teacher, but no thank you. if it were $400 i would get it. not 800 or 900 though. i odnt exactly know what it is i dont like about it, but i can tell you that i have used it for rap and i was not happy with the results.

Sorry, but I have to ask. Why did you use the 414 many many times if you never liked it? Surely it was not because it was the only choice that you had. You say that if it cost 400 bucks you would buy it. Why would you buy it at all if you don’t like it? Did your teacher tell you that this was the ultimate choice for rap vocals? It is a Pity you cant specify what you did not like about it. I guess tens of thousands of professional sound engineers around the world have got it wrong after all. The C-414 is an industry standard world-class multi purpose microphone. Maybe you should rap into a D112, the one that’s known as the egg. No pun intended.

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by Stress Man

I've been wondering, do you think a Teletronix LA 2A Could have any use in a Hip Hop Studio??

Hey Stress Man, if you record bass or vocals sure. Something with the slow attack and release{electro optical compression} will give you a smoother and more defined tone on your tracks. I have used the LA-2A and it would definitly have its place in a hip hop studio. Thats how you get the track to stand out front of the mix. A couple pieces of gear in mind would be the Pendulum OCL-2. or the Manley ELOP. Possibly even a Quartet II would give you the same warm, largly colored audio signal, execpt youd be getting an entire recording channel with that piece. If you seek fatness and warmth electro optical is the way to go.

[Dino]

Hey Peoples!

I know there's no strict rules with mixing but when mixing a track what are you experienced guys workflows like?

I'm personally not sure whether its best for me to start with Panning and Instrument/Vocal Volumes, then on to Compression and EQing then adding Extra effects after.

OR:
EQing and Compression on each element---> tweaking volumes--->Panning
----> adding extra effects (such as reverbs, modulation etc).

Right now I mix exclusively in my DAW and will be for a while.

there's another question I had but its gone AWOL as I was typing this.

Cheers peeps!

[Dino]

Hey Peoples!

Hopefully this one gets more of a response.

When does one need to use Mono tracks? What instruments go in mono tracks instead of stereo tracks?

Are Mono tracks better for isolation for certain instruments or vocals even?

Please Help

[The Mook]

what should i get. i was looking at the neve 8128 but after seeing this site i figured i better find something else that isnt such a headache. i was thinking of a trident and some nice out board pre's what do you think?

Mook

[Dino]

Hey Peoples!

*notice that my earlier questions have gone unanswered* ..Fingers crossed with this one.

what is generally a good setting for basslines in regards to Compression?
What would i be looking for when compressing a Bass part sonically?
I there's no rules but how does Compressing a soft synth bass line differ to Compressing a live bass guitar?

What kinda Threshold/ Ratio/ Attack settings are commonly used by the more Experienced guys?

Thanks!

[Dino]

Oh yeah I've got another one!

What are Aux and Submix Busses used for?

I've been using Sub Busses to group different elements together (various drum parts in one buss, guitars in a next etc) EQing individually, then using the Sub Mix track to set levels for each group.
Am I in the right direction in how I've been using them?

Aux Busses I don't really have much idea how or why to use those yet.

PLease help!

[skip100]

Originally Posted by Checkmate Muzik

Asking all engineers!! Is there a big sound difference tracking the beats on a digi 02 VS the expensive top of the line HD protools in major studios. Or there isnt much difference as far as sound quality? I need a good setup to track beats at home. A lot of engineers i know say better converters make a big difference.

I use a DIGI 002r with an apogee rosetta 800 doing all my conversion via ADAT. Quality of sound is professional to say the least. Im only running @ 48khz (according the Nyquist Theorem thats more than adaquate to produce frequencies @ 24khz...which is 6k above the average adults hearing anyway). Also syncing the pro tools clock to the rosetta improves the quality as well. The major difference in the Pro Tools LE stuff verse the HD is the ability of the core cards to handle all the DSP playback capacity you get with HD system. Wheras the LE stuff is completely dependent on your computer to do everything. The firewire throughput gets bogged down a bit when alot of tracks and processing are being done with the DIGI 002. Dont skimp on your computer if your are planning to roll with the DIGI 002 system, get a mac and the fastest one with a ton of memory you can get. And if youre going with the DIGI 002 get a good converter (apogee stuff is world class in my opinion..if you cant get a rosetta 800 get a 200 or the "mini me").

With that being said you need a good mic and preamp. If you get all this great conversion and have a crappy mic and preamp youre going to have a great recording of crappy sounds. For hip hop i use a re20 with a neve 1073 preamp through an 1176 compressor. This combo gives me a nice edge on what im recording. But if you cant get the neve 1073 get a vintech x73 preamp, they're also really nice sounding and edgy. Good luck man.

[incongru]

Originally Posted by Tommy w

It is a Pity you cant specify what you did not like about it. I guess tens of thousands of professional sound engineers around the world have got it wrong after all. The C-414 is an industry standard world-class multi purpose microphone. Maybe you should rap into a D112, the one that’s known as the egg. No pun intended.

Well if he doesn't like 414 I don't see where the problem is.....
There must be many mics you don't like yourself that are used everyday in pro-studios by "tens of thousands of professional sound engineers around the world".
I guess the aim of this thread is to guide people in their choices...but maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a playground for confirmed engineers to pick on the new ones???
I find the C 414 to be very cold and definitely would not want one for vocal takes to back up our friend there

[pirell]

most of what u guys are talkling about is mics. how bout some mixing tips, layering..and compression.

mixing pianos and strings, making them (strings) sound phat. etc.

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by Dino

Hey Peoples!

Hopefully this one gets more of a response.

When does one need to use Mono tracks? What instruments go in mono tracks instead of stereo tracks?

Are Mono tracks better for isolation for certain instruments or vocals even?

Please Help

Hi Dino,

Mono tracks are mainly used for instruments were there will be no required difference between the left and right channels on playback. For example, bass, kick drums, and lead vox are commonly panned to the centre therefore one single track recording is enough. In fact so much of what is sold to us as stereo recordings these days, is in fact mono tracks panned around the sound stage, this should not be confused with true stereo reproduction. A true stereo recording will contain differences between the left and right channels on the same instrument. Stereo mic placement techniques will be required and this and will require a stereo track for the recording to be replayed correctly.

Tommy

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by Dino

Oh yeah I've got another one!

What are Aux and Submix Busses used for?

I've been using Sub Busses to group different elements together (various drum parts in one buss, guitars in a next etc) EQing individually, then using the Sub Mix track to set levels for each group.
Am I in the right direction in how I've been using them?

Aux Busses I don't really have much idea how or why to use those yet.

PLease help!

Hi Dino,

Aux busses are really versatile and have many uses, however the most common by far is for pre fade headphone mixes or post fade effect sends. Lets assume that you are using a software mixer and want to add some reverb to a vocal track in your mix. If you have a pre and post button, then it should be set to post. Turn up the Aux 1 control on the vocal channel and then turn up the Aux 1 master send control. You should now see the vocal signal in the effects unit. To hear the reverb added to your vocal track, look for Aux 1 return, and turn up the control and you should now hear the effect added to the vocal. You should be able to turn up the Aux 1 control on any other channel now and hear reverb added to any other instrument. If you require a different effect on anything else them simply repeat the above but use Aux two instead. The reason that we used a post fade setting was because if you were to turn down the vocal channel, then the effect will also be turned down. It would sound strange if the effect continued after the source had been cut. Pre fade is preffered for headphone cues as the signal is not cut when the source fader is turned down. This allows the talent the freedom of not having their mix affected when the engineer changes a faders position.

Submix busses again have several uses that can be used during recording and mixing. If you wanted to record several instruments onto the same track, then this can be done by routing the required instruments to a sub group first. During mixing, especially if you have lots of tracks happening, it might be a good idea to make smaller and more manageable sub mixes. If you route all your drum tracks to sub group 1&2, you can now control the overall level of the drums with two faders, don't forget to pan the groups to the left and right, as this will maintain your stereo image. It is also helpful to group lead vox with multipart harmonies etc in this way, this time use 3&4. It is easy to add some reverb or eq to just the overall sound of the drums for example.

Tommy

[Dino]

Happy New Year Tommy W!

Thanks for your reply to my questions dude, they're a great help and make things alot clearer to me.
I'll spend some time tinkering with AUX's to get my round that subject ASAP.

I've been applying FX like reverbs and delay via track inserts so far, so would there still be any use for a AUX Buss in that situation?

Thanks again!

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by Dino

Happy New Year Tommy W!

Thanks for your reply to my questions dude, they're a great help and make things alot clearer to me.
I'll spend some time tinkering with AUX's to get my round that subject ASAP.

I've been applying FX like reverbs and delay via track inserts so far, so would there still be any use for a AUX Buss in that situation?

Thanks again!

Hi Dino. A very happy new year to you too. Thanks

OK applying reverb and delay over the insert points is not the best thing to do, and there are several reasons why. There are two main categories of device used that will serve as a good example. Firstly we have sound processors and secondly FX units. Some examples of sound processors are gates, compressor/limiters, de-essers and expanders. FX units offer reverb, delay chorus flanging etc. Lets look at the sound processor first. Let’s say that you wanted to process a kick drum with a compressor. The correct way to do it would be to use the insert point on the console. The reason is that you would want to treat the dynamics on the whole kick drum signal, there would be no concern that your kick drum would overload the recorder anymore, because 100% of the sound has been treated by the compressor. That is to say that the compressor has been connected in line, so you will not have any of the original unprocessed sound present at the output of the compressor. It should be noted that the compressor in this example has been set up for use on the kick drum signal. It cannot be shared with other channels. I have seen people use aux’s for sound processing such as compression in the past. It simply does not make sense because the original sound is not required.

FX units are different. Let’s take a vocal for example, if you where to sing in a phone box or a cave, we know that the sound will be different. It is not your voice that will change; it is the effect of the acoustic space that will cause the overall sound to be different. If we want to emulate this artificially by using an FX unit, then we will always need to consider keeping the original sound (which remains untouched) and then add the effected sound to it to complete the emulation. Software FX units such as reverb are normally computer processor hungry. You will soon find this out if you try to apply a reverb unit to all your channels over the insert points. For example 10 independent channels will require 10 reverb units. Why not use one reverb unit connected to the aux buss? Because you can then send a split of each channel to the reverb unit via the aux controls on each channel, and keep the original sound intact. You can then achieve the desired result by turning up the aux return to monitor the added reverb to the dry sound, now this is more like what happens in real life. Remember that the insert point will treat 100% of the signal and the only control that you will have is a wet and dry knob for mixing the sound. It can work but it’s not really the right way to do it. One more thing, if you do use an effect on the insert than it must be post fader, or you will still hear the effect when the source fader is turned down. Now this does not happen in real life because the effect is always a function of the source.

All sound processors should be connected in line (inserted) and will modify the envelope of the original signal.
All FX units should be connected to the aux busses, and do not modify the envelope of the original signal.

Hope this works for you.
Tommy

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by incongru

Well if he doesn't like 414 I don't see where the problem is.....
There must be many mics you don't like yourself that are used everyday in pro-studios by "tens of thousands of professional sound engineers around the world".
I guess the aim of this thread is to guide people in their choices...but maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a playground for confirmed engineers to pick on the new ones???
I find the C 414 to be very cold and definitely would not want one for vocal takes to back up our friend there

Hi Incongru,

I guess I just don't like to see high quality gear slated without a viable explanation given for doing it. There are many reasons why a desired result may not have been achieved from this mic. I have seen people singing into it before with a cardioid polar pattern selected and the brand name side facing away from them. Of course it will sound crap, or trying to record vocals with no pop shield or shock mount. It was not my intension to pxxx anyone off. I just said it like it was dude.
Sure there are microphones that I don't always favour as a first choice, but I would not say things like, well I would buy it if it was cheaper even although I don't like it.

Tommy

[Tommy w]

Originally Posted by Dino

Hey Peoples!

*notice that my earlier questions have gone unanswered* ..Fingers crossed with this one.

what is generally a good setting for basslines in regards to Compression?
What would i be looking for when compressing a Bass part sonically?
I there's no rules but how does Compressing a soft synth bass line differ to Compressing a live bass guitar?

What kinda Threshold/ Ratio/ Attack settings are commonly used by the more Experienced guys?

Thanks!

Dino,

The reason why there is a difference between compressing a soft synth bass and a live bass guitar is in the dynamics. The soft synth will already be treated dynamically before being made available to you, it will not require much if any compression unless your end goal is to change the sound. The live guitar is a different story altogether.
A bass player is unlikely to pluck each string with equal level. In a live performance this is no big deal, but on a recording it can make the sound uneven. The compressor is used to push down on the louder notes to make them sound on par with the quieter ones. The result can be a nice even sounding bass line. It is important to understand that each control on a compressor has a direct affect on the others. I will assume that you know this to avoid a lengthy explanation.
Try these settings as a rough guide to get started although I prefer to treat each case as it comes. There is no one size fits all.
Make up gain = unity
Attack time fast 10 milli secs
release time 500 milli secs
Ratio 4:1
Threshold - 30 dB

Tommy W

[Dino]

Thanks again Tommy w!

Not sure if it makes any difference to your answers but I failed to mention that Programme and mix Totally In The Box.

[incongru]

Originally Posted by Tommy w

Hi Incongru,

I guess I just don't like to see high quality gear slated without a viable explanation given for doing it. There are many reasons why a desired result may not have been achieved from this mic. I have seen people singing into it before with a cardioid polar pattern selected and the brand name side facing away from them. Of course it will sound crap, or trying to record vocals with no pop shield or shock mount. It was not my intension to pxxx anyone off. I just said it like it was dude.
Sure there are microphones that I don't always favour as a first choice, but I would not say things like, well I will buy it if it was cheaper even although I don't like it.

Tommy

I can see your point. It's true that one should only buy what he wants and like and not things that are "notorious" just to "be a part of it".
And I have to admit that your posts are very well explained, detailled and must be of great help.
I actually feel like I'm back to school
(you've been to an audio school, right?)
While I encourage you to keep posting and helping (because you do it really weel) I must say that most of the time you state things in a too formal way (in my opinion). I know it's good to follow precise rules when trying to learn the whole scheme but you should also encourage people to experiment.
For example you could explain why a compressor is use at the insert point instead of the aux (your explaination was cool, clear and all) and tell people to try and compare.
I have often used compressors on aux returns for vocal tracks and accoustic guitars and it produces a very interesting effect: punchier, more body but yet keeping the dynamic. I believe that it is necessary to state rules but also to try and break them.