When Making Beats ... What Do You THINK?

[Eternal_One]

Hey all,

Isn't it really annoying that good bass (sounds/samples) can't be heard on certain speakers? This makes me reluctant to using certain sounds when producing music/instrumentals. It's mainly because I don't have studio monitors (yet?) and just over time, I've become accustomed to using my Macbook Pro speakers as either test speakers (I listen to the beat on them after it's complete) or sometimes I use them to make an actual beat on (I'll even use them sometimes to mix vocals)... why would anyone make a beat (or mix/EQ vocals) off of Macbook Pro speakers when they have decent Shure headphones as an alternative? Well, I feel, from over time, that if I can produce a real good sounding (quality) beat just from using my MB Pro speakers, the beat's going to sound real smooth on mostly all other systems. I do this for the reason just stated and because I feel like a lot of people are or may be listening on inferior speaker systems (whether it be Macbooks, computer speakers, speakers that don't produce low frequencies). It could just be a habit I've built up, I feel like some of you are going to say, "dude, just produce strictly off of your headphones or go buy studio monitors" (I also know it's not best to produce/engineer off of studio headphones).

The main thing that really bugs me is how I can hear some great bass in my headphones but when I play that sample (say it's a bass kick or a synth) out of my MB Pro's output, it's either completely inaudible or such a weak/totally different reproduction of what I was hearing in my headphones.

And yes, I know this is all because of frequencies regarding speaker systems, it's just super, super annoying because once again, I feel like a lot of people will be listening on inferior speakers that are equivalent to MB Pro speakers and in turn, the time I spent working in this awesome sounding bass in my mix, isn't even going to be heard (AT ALL or the way it was intended) when certain people are listening...

Opinions?

(PS - Bass frequencies tend to sound pretty good/awesome in cars though )

[Eternal_One]

I'm also assuming that certain frequencies that normally wouldn't be heard on inferior speaker systems, can be tweaked by professionals to come out/be heard on any speaker system. These frequencies will sound great on quality systems but also will be heard on say, Macbook Pro speakers... (whereas they typically wouldn't/shouldn't).

Opinions on this as well?

[Reflektem]

There are certain things that you can do to make them be heard on smaller speakers:

-Rbass/Maxx Bass by WAVES.

-Layer your bass with another bass in the low-mids spectrum

-Use distortion like Lo-Fi on Pro Tools, Guitar Rig from Native Instruments or another plug-in that will do this.

[ChadDub]

You're not going to hear 43hz come out of Macbook speakers, it's just how it is.

[Eternal_One]

Interesting. Thanks for the input.

[beat you down]

if this already annoys you....

be prepared for a really rough ride.

monitors won't be the solution either.

a treated room AND monitors is a good start.

[KeMiKaL]

Originally Posted by ChadDub

You're not going to hear 43hz come out of Macbook speakers, it's just how it is.

Go buy some Rokit 5's they are cheap, and sound pretty good... oh ya if you do wanna hear how its sounding like down there at 43 Hz, get a sub woofer...

I don't think you can actually hear whats going on at 43 Hz anyways... hell even some PA's cannot reproduce 43 Hz

[ChadDub]

I have KRK RP8's and they're most resonant at 43hz... They can get down to around 35hz without turning into a fan.

[windmillsound]

Um... so why doesn't your cheap equipment sound like the enormously expensive gear used in professional studios.

I know, its just not fair

[sackynut]

my opinion is :
1. even if the majority of people will hear your track on inferior speakers, the people who choose to listen to it on club speakers, or real headphones, or monitors can get a much nicer experience.
2. sometimes you WANT low bass, as a part of the artistic value on your track, why deprive people of that?
3. (dont quote me on this one) how you mix and master the track can also be a huge matter, because you can make a track, with plenty of bass sound GOOD on mac book speakers, and also sound GREAT on real headphones/speakers.
ive heard/produced tracks that sound decent on headphones/speakers, and sound like crud on mac book speakers because everythings distorted and crushed up.
4. if you end up wanting bass in your songs, how are you gonna know that it sounds like what youre aiming for... if you cant hear it?

[drambitz]

what i usually do is:

1. duplicate the bass track and eq or fx it till it sits in the lower mids, say just above the snare freq dropoff and mix it back in to the original

2. use other sounds that copy and complement the bassline from the the lower mids upwards. sometimes two different ones panned L/R to taste.

but even if you can't really hear the super lows they (usually) still hold the song together.

best.

[3rd Degree]

Originally Posted by drambitz

what i usually do is:

1. duplicate the bass track and eq or fx it till it sits in the lower mids, say just above the snare freq dropoff and mix it back in to the original

2. use other sounds that copy and complement the bassline from the the lower mids upwards. sometimes two different ones panned L/R to taste.

but even if you can't really hear the super lows they (usually) still hold the song together.

best.

Yup. Bass to me is a really critical part of hip hop. That does not mean it needs to be loud, it just "holds things together". Don't be afraid to duplicate the bassline an octave higher or boost the low mids. I have so many kicks and bass samples that I can't even hear when making music on my laptop without headphones. But, when I move it to my real computer and mix, the bass always exists. I don't try to mix my beats for systems that don't produce lows either, they just come out when you tweek them right, IMO.

[KT1]

43? why the 3 :D

So sub frequency is exactly that ...SUB. Most speakers including the so called 'ROCKITS' will NOT produce that type of frequency accurately simple as! Agree with beatyoudown that a treated room and decent monitors is a start. I get your point but it's well..ridiculous...To assume just because most people may not be listening in an environment with decent speakers doesn't mean shit. if i play a track in my car with a sub and its well ..not there id just think WACK. simple as.

Once again in terms of making it more audible in higher registers its all about harmonic content or another line in a higher register SIMPLE AS. Someone mentioned RBASS that's it add some harmonics and you can hear those in the higher freq.

Someone also said without being a fan..UMM why would you assume that that is a good thing? I'm not digging just wondering..AIR moves the speaker..

GOD BLESS

[profplume]

Originally Posted by Eternal_One

Hey all,

Isn't it really annoying that good bass (sounds/samples) can't be heard on certain speakers? This makes me reluctant to using certain sounds when producing music/instrumentals. It's mainly because I don't have studio monitors (yet?) and just over time, I've become accustomed to using my Macbook Pro speakers as either test speakers (I listen to the beat on them after it's complete) or sometimes I use them to make an actual beat on (I'll even use them sometimes to mix vocals)... why would anyone make a beat (or mix/EQ vocals) off of Macbook Pro speakers when they have decent Shure headphones as an alternative? Well, I feel, from over time, that if I can produce a real good sounding (quality) beat just from using my MB Pro speakers, the beat's going to sound real smooth on mostly all other systems. I do this for the reason just stated and because I feel like a lot of people are or may be listening on inferior speaker systems (whether it be Macbooks, computer speakers, speakers that don't produce low frequencies). It could just be a habit I've built up, I feel like some of you are going to say, "dude, just produce strictly off of your headphones or go buy studio monitors" (I also know it's not best to produce/engineer off of studio headphones).

The main thing that really bugs me is how I can hear some great bass in my headphones but when I play that sample (say it's a bass kick or a synth) out of my MB Pro's output, it's either completely inaudible or such a weak/totally different reproduction of what I was hearing in my headphones.

And yes, I know this is all because of frequencies regarding speaker systems, it's just super, super annoying because once again, I feel like a lot of people will be listening on inferior speakers that are equivalent to MB Pro speakers and in turn, the time I spent working in this awesome sounding bass in my mix, isn't even going to be heard (AT ALL or the way it was intended) when certain people are listening...

Opinions?

(PS - Bass frequencies tend to sound pretty good/awesome in cars though )

I didnt read all the replies. I'm sure you got ripped for this one. lol The answers pretty obvious. Check the frequency response for your speakers and whatever it is, say 75hz, you will not hear anything below it. Hence, if the bassline you like is around 50hz or so, you will not hear it, but if another bassline is at 80hz you will, simple.

Yes, my friend, what you describe is 90% of the battle for a rap producer (well, maybe 70%, vocals being 29%) but :

First of all, studio monitors won't help totally. Budget monitors (M-audio, Rokit.....I have a pair of behringer MS40s that are great for the price) will get down around 50 hz, as they are built to be flat and not to boom. If you want to hear all your bass get a subwoofer to go with your monitors (or just use some big house speakers.)

That's for you and the audiophiles that will listen to your stuff, your core constituency. lol But for everybody else, like i-poders with ear buds and laptop listeners there are 'tricks' to make sure the bassline translates. A simple google search and you'll see that you aren't the first one to have this problem.

First thing to do, if I were you, is to read up quickly on the basic fundamentals of bass, like proximity...etc, so then you know WHY things are happening. That will take a lot of frustration away....trust me.

Luckily for us we have plenty of digital tools. You could use an exciter, like RBass or Crysonic NewB, or any of those that reproduce the frequencies at a higher octave, one that is heard on the cheap stuff. So your bass will pop up on your laptop.

BTW I have a pair of sony 7506 headphones that sound great down there. (100 bucks)

Peace

[Ezionjd]

Its a well known fact that most advertizing agencys, judge their music on macbook laptop speakers.
So if you're trying to earn money on music for commercial, you're (sadly) doing it the right way.
I always finish my mix with an additional bounce of it, completely compressed and with extra treble added. Just for the sake of media pitches. You never know, might be the next "Mad Men" theme like RjD2 & Aceyalone scored. Big check for that i bet!

[cananball]

Originally Posted by KeMiKaL

Go buy some Rokit 5's they are cheap, and sound pretty good... oh ya if you do wanna hear how its sounding like down there at 43 Hz, get a sub woofer...

I don't think you can actually hear whats going on at 43 Hz anyways... hell even some PA's cannot reproduce 43 Hz

Yes you can certainly hear 43 hz. It is the low E string on a bass guitar. A full octave about the lowest note humans are capable of hearing.

To the OP, if you want to mix bass, your gonna need full range studio monitors, and definately rook treatment to make accurate decisions about what you hear.

True most people wont be able to hear the sub bass . Mixing on mac book pro speakers will not help it translate.
Sent from my DROIDX using Gearslutz.com App

[damien907]

you need to break the habit of using your macbook pro speakers in my opinion. your just not getting an accurate representation of the bass that way.

i would get a pair of nice studio headphones and learn how to mix on those, unless you have the space and money to get a properly treated room with monitors.

check out the audio technica ath m-50S model headphones, i like mine alot and use them to mix on.

sure they arent as good as a properly treated room with an nice pair of monitors, but i also do hear the bass frequencies just fine.

by using your laptop speakers, your missing out on a whole frequency range that needs to be heard when mixing.

use your laptop speakers as reference and get a nice set of headphone until you can get some monitors and treat your room.

the headphones are 150 dollars, but they are worth it.
make sure to get the S model though because the regular model has a clunky heavy coiled cord that sucks.

[profplume]

Originally Posted by damien907

you need to break the habit of using your macbook pro speakers in my opinion. your just not getting an accurate representation of the bass that way.

i would get a pair of nice studio headphones and learn how to mix on those, unless you have the space and money to get a properly treated room with monitors.

check out the audio technica ath m-50S model headphones, i like mine alot and use them to mix on.

sure they arent as good as a properly treated room with an nice pair of monitors, but i also do hear the bass frequencies just fine.

by using your laptop speakers, your missing out on a whole frequency range that needs to be heard when mixing.

use your laptop speakers as reference and get a nice set of headphone until you can get some monitors and treat your room.

the headphones are 150 dollars, but they are worth it.
make sure to get the S model though because the regular model has a clunky heavy coiled cord that sucks.

Agreed. It is traditionally wrong to mix on headphones and you should do your final mix on monitors, BUT for the other 95% of the time, headphones is the way to go. For 150 bux, it solves the treated room problem that unfortunately many of us simply can not swing.
(btw I set up a 'beach tent', a cheap little 6x7x6 thing that you fold up (and bring to the beach) padded on the bottom, egg crate foaming all around....hey u do what you can. lol I make up for it with quality music. You'd be surprised what some of our favorite rap songs were done on. lol Anyway, I digress..)

Yes like he said. Also Sony 7506 are great. (tip: sometimes I tie a bandana around my head, around the ears to full 'close' them.......its a nice experience. lol)

Also: I wouldnt recommend the Dr. Dres for mixing but they are great for booming. Peace