2 Compressors on a rap vocal?

[Guy Gabriel]

Hi, I wanted to hear about some of your techniques to get that in your face rap vocals.

Do you usually use 2 compressors on a rap vocal or just one?
If you use 2 than what kind of compressors and in which stage of the chain?
Perhaps a slow comp at the beginning and than a faster one like 1176 to finish the job?

[MuffinManRock]

Why would you need two? Just over compress the vocal with one.

[T. Gundersen]

I like using the SoundToys Decapitator for a little saturation at times, but far from always. Can be used with a Softube FET compressor after that, either nudging the signal at somewhere between 2-4:1 ratio, slow attack, fast release, just shaving off enough to get the needle moving, makeup gain to taste. The FET compressor can also do the all buttons in parallel type of squashing, just squash letting transients through to taste and blend in to taste. If I use light FET compression-style, I might slap on the RVox doing 4-6 dB of compression. Sometimes I let the L1 shave off just a smidge in the end if I need to really push it (knowing the vocals will probably be compressed somewhere in a vocal bus again).

[Stigmurda]

my vocal chain is usually:
EQ
COMP(4:1 ratio, fast attack/slow release)
COMP(2:1 ratio, slow attack/fast release)
DE-ESSER

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by MuffinManRock

Why would you need two? Just over compress the vocal with one.

Using different compressors, with different gain curves and degrees of reduction, can be a less intrusive way of getting the same overall compression without as much of the pump or squash.

I like the RComp ----> Rvox combo, with RComp on Electro mode.

I also like UBK-1 ----> Rvox combo.

Rvox gets a couple extra db of forwardness, most of the compression is handled by the first comp.

[CJ Mastering]

Originally Posted by Muffin Man Rock

Why would you need two? Just over compress the vocal with one.

Your missing the point or you just dont know. Using 2 compressors on a vocal chain or any other instrument is common practice and when done right, the outcome is awesome!!!

CJ

[s.d.finley]

If two works then use it, I do it all the time. Just a little compression on each.

[MuffinManRock]

Originally Posted by CJ Mastering

Your missing the point or you just dont know. Using 2 compressors on a vocal chain or any other instrument is common practice and when done right, the outcome is awesome!!!

CJ

Didn't know that. My bad! Sorry for sounding ignorant.

[Guy Gabriel]

thanks for all the responses.
actually i've been trying some methods in the last couple of days and found out that Black76 -> White2A works for me the best and makes my vocals stand out.
no matter how low i set their volume in the mix it still stands out, sounds clear and you get that in your face vocal.
best vocal sound i've ever achieved!
of course with an EQ and a DeEsser before the 2 comps in the chain.

[Chris Lago]

In my studio I'm using a Sony c800g- AMS 1073- LA2A, no need for a second compressor, After I add the Pulteq EQ it's good to go. But that mic requires less compression than a u87 or any other mic really.

[Tha Govna]

Do it all the time, though I'm still getting the hang of it.

Usually there is one with a fast attack to tame a few dB's off the top, then another more for shaping.

Sometimes I compress going in and find I don't need anymore compression though.

[Teacher]

do you mean in the mix or when tracking? for mixing my goto's are softube tubetech CL1B first then Waves RCL with EQ inbetween of each..

[RonGherkins]

If I'm trying to tame a vocal I'm going to use a faster compressor first though (like an 1176) and then go for something slower to grip it. Depends on the application.

[s.d.finley]

Originally Posted by Teacher

do you mean in the mix or when tracking? for mixing my goto's are softube tubetech CL1B first then Waves RCL with EQ inbetween of each..

Both, but while tracking its hardware compressors otherwise the possibility of clipping the AD stage can happen. Plugins are post AD anyways. While mixing I might use software and hardware.

[icecubeman]

I am using calssic chain 1176 followed by LA2A=great results

[chris carter]

There are many approaches to using two compressors on a lead vocal. But more often than not, it's the combination of a slow soft-knee (think optical) and a super fast hard knee (think fet or even a limiter). If you put the fast one first, you catch the peaks so the slow compressor has something just a little smoother to deal with. If you put the slow one first, you use the fast one to kind of level things off just a bit. The difference in order can be subtle and often has more to do with workflow than a noticeable difference in resultant sound. Personally, I tend to go slow first and then fast. Another technique that works great on slow r&b/pop ballads is to go slow and then fast, but set the faster compressor for a really low ration like 2:1 with a super long release (like 1 second) and have it almost engaging most of the time.

Of course, I'm often known to use three compressors on a lead vox LOL!

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by chris carter

There are many approaches to using two compressors on a lead vocal. But more often than not, it's the combination of a slow soft-knee (think optical) and a super fast hard knee (think fet or even a limiter). If you put the fast one first, you catch the peaks so the slow compressor has something just a little smoother to deal with. If you put the slow one first, you use the fast one to kind of level things off just a bit. The difference in order can be subtle and often has more to do with workflow than a noticeable difference in resultant sound. Personally, I tend to go slow first and then fast. Another technique that works great on slow r&b/pop ballads is to go slow and then fast, but set the faster compressor for a really low ration like 2:1 with a super long release (like 1 second) and have it almost engaging most of the time.

Of course, I'm often known to use three compressors on a lead vox LOL!

Bingo


With softer knee compressors, like optical modes, they tend to be very sensitive to peak information but a little slow to react - so little overs will make the compressor swing really hard. With faster compressors, like your 1176 or Dbx 160 you can grab and release on those faster peaks, but used in that way the compression becomes very audible if the threshold dips too low. Sometimes you can get the best of both worlds by pairing the two. 1176 and LA2A make a good pairing for this reason. Rvox kind of moves like an optical compressor to my ear - although I don't believe it is. So similarly, RComp (electro) and Rvox is a good pairing - as is RComp electro and RComp opto.

[The Beatsmith]

Recreating that in the box, if you don't have (or want) Waves or UAD, I like using Stillwell Rocket as an '1176' and PSP Oldtimer with a slow setting as an 'LA2A'. I usually end up with the '1176' first, but a great ITB advantage is how easy it is to just switch the plugins around and see (with tweaking).

I also use a real 1176 but still use the old-timer for the 'LA2A'. I'll be building an LA2A this year so hope to have the real deal, with an aim to using them as my 'money' OTB vocal chain

Anyway, hope the Rocket/Oldtimer combo could be helpful to some. Happy new year!

[thebigboy]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

In my studio I'm using a Sony c800g- AMS 1073- LA2A, no need for a second compressor, After I add the Pulteq EQ it's good to go. But that mic requires less compression than a u87 or any other mic really.

LA2A is way too slow for my taste for rap vocals. I'd switch it out for an 1176, but ymmv..

[Danny Downer]

I think I remember Illacov uses 2 Hardware comps on the way in!

Think he said he don't uses any itb compression afterwards!

Illacov please explain

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by thebigboy

LA2A is way too slow for my taste for rap vocals. I'd switch it out for an 1176, but ymmv..

Chris is primarily a singer.

LA2A works very well on rap vocals, but generally at subtler levels of gain reduction. Going back to the original idea behind the thread.

[daez]

If you have a smooth tone like snoop or common an la2a will work lovely but someone with more dynamics might be a case of too much or too little in which case you'll need something with adjustable attack and release and preferably something that can be faster like an 1176

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Storyville

Chris is primarily a singer.

LA2A works very well on rap vocals, but generally at subtler levels of gain reduction. Going back to the original idea behind the thread.

If it's strictly rap then I would add the Rvox after an LA2A or Cl1b.

[David Ray]

Any given high end comp-> rvox is LIKE cheating

Any given high end comp -> rvox-> airwindows pop IS cheating

A tip for those who are trying to use serial compression for the first time: don't be afraid to work backwards.

What I mean is: set the first one in the ball park, then set the second one to where it's roughly accomplishing your goal. But then go back to the first and "push into" the second one a bit- you might find the first (may seem like it) "behaves" a bit differently.

Thinking a few plugs/fx at a time is really key to getting professional results. It's a bit akin to chess... Thinking one move a time is great for beginners. But the real game is played when you can think several moves in advance...

I'd be interested to here if any of the heavy weights here DONT think in terms of chains... Obviously one needs to listen and respond piece by piece... But creating a plan of attack should increasingly involve chains and those chains should increasingly be set in a nonlinear fashion.

[Igotsoul4u]

If you don't have an outboard compressor double compression is sometimes the answer. I always run light compression for only the loudest of loud material during tracking. When I mix i only need one compressor to handle the average dynamics. When compressing with 2 compressors at once you should use the same approach. Make your first comp some sort of limiter or light compression that only takes down abnormally louder sections but doesn't react much at all to anything else. The second comp should be active at all times with the appropriate attack and release times depending on the type of material being recorded. Think of it as a LA2A into an 1176.

[Chris Lago]

Rvox definitely feels like cheating. If anything sounds a little too loose (volume going soft and loud), the Rvox handles it nicely and makes the track sit like it's on a chair with straps.

[defari84]

i use 3 compressors for rapvocals. one outboard compressor whille tracking with ratio 2 and a gain reduction about 3-6.

then when i'm mixing this works for me:
- first compressor (ratio: 6, ultrafast attack, fast release, 1-3 db gain reduction-> to level out the volumes)
- deesser
- eq
- second compressor (ratio:4, medium attack, semifast-medium release, gain reduction as needed)

[Alxi]

I too do it almost all of the time.
One compressor to limit or to catch the bigger peaks
the other to add flavor and to add volume consistency.

I also always automate INTO the compressors ( for vox that is )

[Sirmikeywest]

Parallel compression.

[HiFi Yeah]

Yep 1176 followed by la2a with a vintage mullard = super nice. Barely moving the needle on the opto just there to round it out and give midrange fullness and tone.