Where do you draw the line between producing and engineering in Hip Hop

[Greens]

I started looking at this website for a few tips and tricks from people who are a lot more knowledagable than myself. I soon found that I couldnt get enough of the infomation and wanted to know the equipment used, techniques, tip and tricks ect for every aspect of production from anyone who knew anything. It's since become apparent that this site is a black hole of infomation, which i have found myself sinking further and further into.

Were many of you guy like me and set out in your career to be a artist/producer, but your thirst for knowledge of recording and the eqipment used dragged you down the road of engineering?

What im really trying to get at is: If you want to be a hip hop producer and not a engineer, where do you draw the line?

Id be really interested to hear what you think

Thanks Again

[simonv]

Maybe the best way is to team up with someone who wants to be an engineer, while you concentrate on being a producer. If you have someone who's passion is to work out the technical stuff of your ideas, then you're not going to have to take any detours into engineering.

[Polyphony]

one way to describe it

Producer:
is responsible for all the musical aspects of the project ex: arranging, making sure your singer is in key that sort of stuff. He/she is also the one that has the idea and the vision of the project done and is responsible for the completion of the project.

Engineer:
he knows the studio rooms usually an engineer will try to get the producer to buy studio time at the studio the engineer is most comfortable at. The engineer is responsible for all the technical aspects of the project.

It is a good idea to team up with someone who wants to become an engineer cause both jobs require opposite sides of the brain. In other words, its hard to be creative and anylitical at the same time. I'm not saying it can't be done its just harder especially when your first starting out..

good luck

[Greens]

Thanks for the advice guys

Looks like im gonna have to find an engineer

[Polyphony]

it could help but make sure you remember the most import thing as a producer is to get your ideas down....engineers will come and go but music last forever...

[Disco D]

The main difference? The number of zeros after the digit on the check, and whether or not you are going to see money beyond that first check. I only engineer other people's beats on rare occasions or for projects I am executive producing. I try to engineer almost all of my own projects, and yes I charge extra for that too. You can make paper as an engineer but you have to be like, the best, because I can count at least 20 wannabe producers I've met who after they realize how hard it is to get beats placed end up at Full Sail or SAE, and with the popularity of magazines like Scratch increasing these numbers will only go up.

[Polyphony]

Originally Posted by Disco D

The main difference? The number of zeros after the digit on the check, and whether or not you are going to see money beyond that first check. I only engineer other people's beats on rare occasions or for projects I am executive producing. I try to engineer almost all of my own projects, and yes I charge extra for that too. You can make paper as an engineer but you have to be like, the best, because I can count at least 20 wannabe producers I've met who after they realize how hard it is to get beats placed end up at Full Sail or SAE, and with the popularity of magazines like Scratch increasing these numbers will only go up.

lol....very true....it is getting very watered down...

[babyface_finsta]

Just because you make beats doesn't make you a producer... so if your making beats make beats... songwriter than write songs... if you engineer, engineer... do what your asked to do (to the best of your ability... thats what your getting paid for)... if you are asked to provide insight, concepts advice or ideas... then do so (if your not feeling it... and dont have a good solution... stay outta it)... other than that your job is pretty much done... only producers I've had sessions with lately were A&R reps and managers... the only time I'm ever a producer is when I'm writing and am demoing something up...

Thats basically how it is in my world...

[rickrock305]

I've noticed the line between producer and engineer gets kinda blurred sometimes, especially in hip hop.

[nukmusic]

well...G. where can I start?

It's good to know as much as you can even if you never get deep into engineering the music you have "COMPOSED" But knowledge of engineering will help you when you do go into other studios to lay beats. It will help you prep the tracks ahead of time....like turning off the effects, setting outputs, knowing the tempo, setting the correct song mode, etc, etc

Shit if you learn to lay the beats yourself and have decent gear at your own spot......it might save you time and money or help things move along faster. when you get into tracking the vocals(with good mics, good Pre's,good room) that's even better.

But its up to you to feel out what's your duties....."What Can I Do Efficently"

and speaking from personal experiences....in some cases its much better to drop off the tracks, pick up your check, and be done with it.

[Big 3rd]

Very interesting topic...and extremely true in the hip hop world, especially since music production is turning to a predominantly computer based situation.

I've been torn between the engineer/producer role for a couple of months now. Been learning more and more about engineering and realizing how much I don't know. With me being more creative than technical, I been feeling like the engineering aspect has kinda dulled my creative flow a little. In being creative, so much can be lost if ideas don't get on paper or on tape and recorded in a short amount of time. And inexperience as an engineer, keeps my creative flow to a crawl. Plus, it just seems a little tough for me to switch back and forth between the two roles, especially when working on my own projects...because I'm a tweakhead/perfectionist. It's hard for me to stick with an idea or decision and leave it alone, which works out good for me, most of the time, as a producer, but gives me a f*ckin headache when I'm engineering. And ultimately like I said, when I'm torn between this or that, when engineering, it slows me up tremendously, which brings my creativity to a screeching halt.

I would love to work with an engineer that I could trust to do the job correctly, but I don't have the money to keep going back to him when I get indecisive and want to change this or remix that.

Plus I'm trying to learn to bring my engineering skills up to a level where they produce professional results....so that adds more chaos.

Kinda sucks.

[dshay]

I'm a geek like that, and I'm creative. What do I do?

Naw, for real though, I'm just starting out. When you're a Do It Yourself beginner, you gotta wear all hats.

In all reality this will never end up paying my bills. Especially at this point I can't afford to be putting my day job money into somebody elses pocket. Two words. More gear.

Oh, I do believe in specialization of labor being more efficient. If you get good at what you do, and need to concentrate on your specialty because there is a marketable demand for what you do, by all means hire out, focus and concentrate on what you love.

Until then, I don't see nothing wrong with learning the language and culture of engineers.

At the very least, this place has saved me from making a few dumb purchase decisions for my project studio.

It's definately schooled me on some slept on technology.

[illynoise]

Just engineer, we don't need anymore producers. Producers are usually rappers who realize that they will never make it as rappers, but still want to be in the game somehow.

That's what happened to me about 20 years ago!

BaseJase
Illynoise

[signal_flow]

Originally Posted by Polyphony

it could help but make sure you remember the most import thing as a producer is to get your ideas down....engineers will come and go but music last forever...

A dope engineer will always have work because ...its his/her job to translate the producers/ artist ideas into what is heard...an engineer can make or break your "hit" record...imho

"Welcome 2 The Spitters Club"

[Disco D]

why do you think you see 'producing duos' like the neptunes? 1 usually has more the creative and the other more the technical


to be a really good producer/engineer combo, you have to be so good at the gear technically that it's just an extension of your mind and your arm (or in my case the gear gets tattooed on the arm)

[strauss]

When I'm engineering (which is what I do first and foremost!) I'm serving the producer/artist.
I ask what the producer/artist wants and give it to them with my technical abilities.

My main focus is to get the best audio quality, whatever that may be..
Musical and performance decisions and the focus on it is the producers job.
Though I've witnessed some clueless producers, so I always focus on that too as much as I can without sacrifying my focus on the audio.
If I come up with stuff as an engineer, I always check with the producer if they like it.
Even though I can vibe with certain producers on the musical side of things, as an engineer I'm hired to run the audio side, so that's were

my main focus will be.



When I'm producing myself, I'm usually also the engineer.
On some occasions this goes really well, as I don't have to comunicate through another person. (usually during overdubbing or programming)

Though other times it really sucks, cause I have to focus on the musical arrangements, performance, session logistics AND the audio quality

of the artist which is playing/singing, monitor mixes, trying different mics, pre's, comps, eq's, making notes of the setting in case of a overdub at a later day, keeping the sessions in the DAW tidy (proper file and tracknames!), etc.etc .
Now it's obvious that it ain't possible to do all those things at the same time, so there will be sacrifices made at some things and things will usually go alot slower.

I haven't been in a situation as a producer where I had someone else to take care of the audio side of things, so I could take that part out of my mind. This is mainly because engineering is my main job and things I'm producing are low (or no!) budget. But I'm sure it would be nice if I can focus on less things when producing.