Song structure and format

[cynic]

There's some cool discussion about breakdowns going on, but I thought I'd open up a topic about structure....

How do most of yall structure your beats? 4 bar intro, 16 bar verse, 8 bar chorus, rinse repeat?

I find I get bored of a lot of my tracks if they're structured that way. What's everyones thoughts on the subject?

You ever try creating tracks that have a constant buildup to the end and just sort of fade out? Anything else that might be cool to try for a change of pace when arranging a track?

[Relax]

put a bridge between the verse and chorus or breakdowns between the chorus and verse or intro-chorus-verse etc.

[Big 3rd]

Absolutely....I think song structure is a major key in whether if I quickly get bored of a song or not. Lil Johns songs are a perfect example of the lack of various structures of songs. He has the same type of intro on practically all his crunk sh**. And there are a host of artists who do the same intro/verse/hook/verse/hook/verse/hook format. Gets tired.

I love to build tension and drama by slowly introducing new instruments in a song or mix and matching parts. Or hell I might even have a part come in and never come in again....just to break the monotany.

Good topic....extremely important when trying to put together a good ALBUM, not 15 singles.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

Absolutely....I think song structure is a major key in whether if I quickly get bored of a song or not. Lil Johns songs are a perfect example of the lack of various structures of songs. He has the same type of intro on practically all his crunk sh**. And there are a host of artists who do the same intro/verse/hook/verse/hook/verse/hook format. Gets tired.

I love to build tension and drama by slowly introducing new instruments in a song or mix and matching parts. Or hell I might even have a part come in and never come in again....just to break the monotany.

Good topic....extremely important when trying to put together a good ALBUM, not 15 singles.

Depends on your target audience.

You ain't got time to be 'slowly introducing new instruments' if it's chart orientated.

10 seconds or your outta the game.

Depends on your 'sport' tho.

[filterayok]

i do this thing now, where i'll structure a song pretty standard, then after all the vocal parts are in, i'll listen to the whole song, really trying to listen as an objective audience, and figure out which are the EXACT moments where the ear wants to be hit with something different... it doesnt have to necessarily be a whole new part, just some sort of variational thing where it forces you to keep listening... its a pretty helpful part of the process for me....i think the all about the benjamins thing is pretty cool too where you kinda keep it standard until the end and then COMPLETELY switch for a verse...peoples attention spans are really pathetic nowadays

[TonyBelmont]

Depnds on the song... Does it have a strong chorus? If so, quick intro right into the chorus. If not intro to verse....

There's limitless combinations, it just all depends on the song.

[con?one]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Depnds on the song... Does it have a strong chorus? If so, quick intro right into the chorus. If not intro to verse....

There's limitless combinations, it just all depends on the song.

i agree. and as far as anything else, it really depends on the song.

[RaGe]

I usually end up getting really bored with a beat if I don't complete it within an hour or so. If it goes longer than that I need to work on something else and come back to that beat the next day with fresh ears.

RaGe

[Zacchino]

When you find the right melody for the chorus, try to think harder, cuz you maybe just found the right melody for the bridge.

My preferate (but not usual) song structure goes like this :

1. Short Intro
2. First verse part, but without the whole rythm (e.g. no snare, or no hihat) and very few instruments
3. Second verse part, with the whole rythm, and the main melody scheme
4. Bridge (that last half the time of a verse, so not long)
5. Chorus
6. Second verse (shorter than the first verse if possible)
7. Bridge with different harmonies of the first bridge
8. Chorus, with more details, like more high pitched instruments
9. Break of 4 bar maximum
10. Third verse, as long as the first one, but with more edits and bells and whistles to keep the attention of the listener
11.Chorus (two times if it's not boring)
12. Outro that suddenly cuts (I don't really like fades out... but sometimes it's okay).

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by C Heat

Depends on your target audience.

You ain't got time to be 'slowly introducing new instruments' if it's chart orientated.

10 seconds or your outta the game.

Depends on your 'sport' tho.

Well this I already know. That's why you have your songs that are made for the radio and you have your "album" songs...songs that are great for transition, variation, and color...if you will. I mean you could have a song that's so vulgar that chopping it up and putting it on the radio would be a complete waste of time, yet the song can be phenomenal. Kinda like putting Scarface or Pulp Fiction on a national TV station like NBC at 5pm...it's a complete disservice to the film.

Perfect example of a GREAT "album" song is "What I Feel" by R. Kelly on the R. album.
This song wouldn't have made a great single but it was a phenomenal song.
It's structure really made it dramatic and full of suspense.
I think every great ALBUM has this as an ingredient.

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by Zacchino

When you find the right melody for the chorus, try to think harder, cuz you maybe just found the right melody for the bridge.

My preferate (but not usual) song structure goes like this :

1. Short Intro
2. First verse part, but without the whole rythm (e.g. no snare, or no hihat) and very few instruments
3. Second verse part, with the whole rythm, and the main melody scheme
4. Bridge (that last half the time of a verse, so not long)
5. Chorus
6. Second verse (shorter than the first verse if possible)
7. Bridge with different harmonies of the first bridge
8. Chorus, with more details, like more high pitched instruments
9. Break of 4 bar maximum
10. Third verse, as long as the first one, but with more edits and bells and whistles to keep the attention of the listener
11.Chorus (two times if it's not boring)
12. Outro that suddenly cuts (I don't really like fades out... but sometimes it's okay).

Definitely sounds good but you don't ever want to apply a formula on all your songs. Try different things that you or no one else has tryed. Doing it this way, you will lock your creativity in.

It's like starting off with a drum beat every time you make a track. You lock out all the possibilities.
Sometimes I might start with a solo of an instrument or a 4 bar drum intro or a guitar riff or vocals with the beat breaking in on cue. Hell...I try all types of stuff with my intros and outros.
Like for me...I like real dramatic music...real dramatic intros and bridges. Stuff that catch you off guard.

[Switchcraft]

I like the johny cash format, but that doesnt fit into radio play formats.