ANALOG TAPE SOUND

affinitysound · 26th March 2006, 07:54 PM

ive been hearing about producers like madlib and dilla running their beats through a tape machine to achieve a warm analog sound. exactly what kind of tape machine.. and do you actually record it on the taoe or just run it through the mACHINE??

mic anon · 26th March 2006, 09:32 PM

most likely there recording to tape then dumping back into there computer
for editing.

www.myspace.com/nfinis

FunkFaker · 26th March 2006, 09:55 PM

...a lot of hip-hop cats master to tape to achieve a little 'tape warmth' to their tracks...

Look into a old 1/4" 2-track to mess around with. You can find something with decent head-life left for between $500-$1000.

Good luck, have fun.

tommy

jsrockit · 26th March 2006, 11:22 PM

Madlib records to a Tascam digital multitracker... and his beats are not exactly warm.

FunkFaker · 27th March 2006, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsrockit

Madlib records to a Tascam digital multitracker... and his beats are not exactly warm.

..that's right, cause we're talking about 'analog' tape bringing 'warmth' to tracks, not digital multi-trackers.

Harley-OIART · 27th March 2006, 02:35 AM

I really don't care if ppl flame me for this I stick with it....

There are many quality plugins these days which do a darn good job of generating Tape Saturation. Save your money and go with them.

If your loaded with cash, got a big room, got money to spend on tape, and want to live analog : then By all means get urself a sweet Reel 2 Reel.

I just want to reinterate the point that some of the 'poor man's solutions' (i.e. tape emulation) aren't nessicarily that 'poor'

Good luck with ur traxx every1,

Scott

**TonyBelmont** · 27th March 2006, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley-OIART

I really don't care if ppl flame me for this I stick with it....

There are many quality plugins these days which do a darn good job of generating Tape Saturation. Save your money and go with them.

If your loaded with cash, got a big room, got money to spend on tape, and want to live analog : then By all means get urself a sweet Reel 2 Reel.

I just want to reinterate the point that some of the 'poor man's solutions' (i.e. tape emulation) aren't nessicarily that 'poor'

Good luck with ur traxx every1,

Scott

I totally agree...Look into McDSP Analog Channel (AC2) for a good tape simulator...

Solar · 27th March 2006, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I totally agree...Look into McDSP Analog Channel (AC2) for a good tape simulator...

I second Tony here, and i do agree, McDSP are one the best plug-ins in the market... everyone who use them will tell you that... they are jsut WOW, lets hope one day they will make them for VST wich i doubt it will happen soon but for those using Protools are more then spoiled....

peace..

TooledUp · 27th March 2006, 03:16 AM

Another option you could go for is the Empirical Labs EL-7 FATSO or the new Rupert Neve Portico 5042-H Two-Channel "True Tape" Emulator.

At least with these units your keeping it analog and your investing in a new unit, not an old reel 2 reel that might not last.

Harley-OIART · 27th March 2006, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar

I second Tony here, and i do agree, McDSP are one the best plug-ins in the market... everyone who use them will tell you that... they are jsut WOW (snip)

Just a quicknote :

Analog Channel

Cranesong Pheonix

&
Check this one Out PPL

BigAl · 27th March 2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I totally agree...Look into McDSP Analog Channel (AC2) for a good tape simulator...

What's good as McDSP for VST?

--Al

**TonyBelmont** · 27th March 2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl

What's good as McDSP for VST?

--Al

Unfortunately, nothing...

audioez · 27th March 2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by affinitysound

ive been hearing about producers like madlib and dilla running their beats through a tape machine to achieve a warm analog sound. exactly what kind of tape machine.. and do you actually record it on the tape or just run it through the mACHINE??

I used to asst. a production team where the producer would create a "beat" on an ASR-10...then utilizing the the (2)Outputs of the ASR, the beat would be played back one instrument at a time while a 2" was rolling with lots of sync boxes and stuff. Everything was tracked in pairs, this took a long time. In the end it all was dumped back into pro tools and mixed to a SV3800 believe it or not.

BigAl · 27th March 2006, 04:01 PM

I never knew that a plug-in can sound like a 2" tape. Analog tape has a big rich punch to die for.

There is a button on a 747 that puts out a tube sound. I thought that was amazing, but it's still no analog tape.

27th March 2006, 07:14 PM

U all go right ahead with your plugin thingies, I'm getting a tape machine first chance I get

piccazzo · 27th March 2006, 07:32 PM

" What's good as McDSP for VST? "

Colortone
http://www.tritonedigital.com

panther · 27th March 2006, 08:50 PM

Hip Hop is not known for its sonic quality to begin with (with the exception of Dre, amd probably a few others). Leave the warmth to the experts; get your tracks mastered. Honestly I would use an mpc60 + 16 channel allen heath or soundcraft + 160xt compressors + ADAT to create "warmth."

BigAl · 27th March 2006, 10:22 PM

Dre got a 2" tape.
....and you're right about leaving it to the masters.

dshay · 27th March 2006, 10:22 PM

Plug in tape saturation also has my endorsement.

But then again, I'm going to be using the cassette four track for that garage sound.

**TonyBelmont** · 27th March 2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl

Dre got a 2" tape.
....and you're about leaving it to the masters.

But, does he still use it?

27th March 2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

Hip Hop is not known for its sonic quality to begin with (with the exception of Dre, amd probably a few others). Leave the warmth to the experts; get your tracks mastered. Honestly I would use an mpc60 + 16 channel allen heath or soundcraft + 160xt compressors + ADAT to create "warmth."

Not to jump on you, but it's misinformation that kills the Classic gearslutz IMO

I have never used an Allen Heath board (that I remember)

But what does a Soundcraft board, a dbx 160xt or an ADAT have to do with Warmth?

D.T. Jambor · 28th March 2006, 12:33 AM

Here a further example.

DAW vs. Tape.

With a special "extended" 2 - Track Tape.
Consider the frequency response DAW and Tape.

All files are in 24 bits - 96 kHz - No EQ, no Compressor... Converter Lavry

http://www.musicfiles.homepage.t-onl...iginalFile.wav

http://www.musicfiles.homepage.t-onl...fTape15ips.wav

GL Respect Due · 28th March 2006, 02:34 AM

Affinity:

To answer your questions directly:

Lib/Dilla hasn't used tape for awhile. I'd say 99/2000 would be a safe bet on when they both put tape down. After that it was all about HDR's and Lappies for them.

As far what tape/tape machines they used, who's to say. I know when Dilla was recording LabCab he was cutting on 2" (multi-track). I'd only be guessing as to what brand of tape and what particular machines though.

And yea, you actually record on the tape. Not just through the machine.

-

To the others who suggested that plug-ins can yield results similar or close to tape, your outta your minds! Heres a good comparison, Coca Cola (Tape) verses Wal-Mart Select Cola (Plug-in). Not to mention theirs so many variables. They call themselves tape emulators, but what kinda tape sound are the emulating? An MCI machine? Otari? Studer? Ampex? 1/4", 1/2", 1", 2"? 15 ips? 30 ips? Properly aligned? Unaligned? The list goes on.

panther · 28th March 2006, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Not to jump on you, but it's misinformation that kills the Classic gearslutz IMO

I have never used an Allen Heath board (that I remember)

But what does a Soundcraft board, a dbx 160xt or an ADAT have to do with Warmth?

Warmth is a metaphysical concept. I do think that bumping you beats through a board will warm them up. I was suggesting the adat and the compresor cuz they are cheap :) and i dont think that most of these hip hip cats use particularly desirable gear.

**TonyBelmont** · 28th March 2006, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GL Respect Due

They call themselves tape emulators, but what kinda tape sound are the emulating? An MCI machine? Otari? Studer? Ampex? 1/4", 1/2", 1", 2"? 15 ips? 30 ips? Properly aligned? Unaligned? The list goes on.

McDSP AC2 allows you to choose Ampex, Otari, Studer and many others, and all the different tape speeds, etc.. It's quite a good plugin, if you have PT try it..

yeloocproducer · 28th March 2006, 05:39 AM

I've used analog channel, pheonix, and DUY tape on both Madlib and Dilla tracks over the past couple of years. I really like the new TDM plugin "tape-head" that some guy is selling for only $69... more aggressive than pheonix. The above post is correct that Lib and Dilla abandoned physical tape around the turn of the millenium.

Alot of Madlib and Dilla's tape sound is already in the samples they use(d) off of vinyl.

Tommy Mas · 28th March 2006, 07:42 PM

the Roland Space Echo is DOPE. and they just released a plugin of it on Universal Audio.com

filterayok · 29th March 2006, 06:35 AM

i got a question, that ive never had fully explained----sound is just frequency and amplitude, correct? so "warmth" is usually referring to a less high-endy sound, and slight boosts in the low-low-mid area, and perhaps some added compression... so can't a good ear "warm" something up with compressors and eq's?? i understand that perhaps maybe these tape machines are compressing only certain frequencies, but a c4 plugin can do that... i don't know what metaphysical means, but WARMTH means a tasteful addition of low mid frequencies and reduction of certain high frequencies... why does everyone need a tape machine to do that?? What magic does tape perform that you can't do with an eq or compressors??

yeloocproducer · 29th March 2006, 06:42 AM

Tape does a lot of different things... it's saturation (0 attack time compression), distortion, biasing up and back down, eq, etc. It's hard enough to get right in an emulation plug-in... but you won't be able to fake it with eq and compression only. There's high freq. smearing, 2nd order harmonics, all sorts of stuff to give it "warmth".

filterayok · 29th March 2006, 07:06 AM

high frequency smearing? that sounds like compression of the highs------and i think whatever harmonics are being produced is due to the compression... i guess zero attck time compression is impossible to recreate, but as opposed to 3ms?? can you with confidence, or can anybody with confidence pick out the song that was sent to tape as opposed to the song that was eq'd and compressed to emulate that sound.... and of course, if you say yes, a challenge will be presented....i would imagine it to be like a water tasting contest, between brands of bottled water....

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26th March 2006, 07:54 PM	#1
affinitysound Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	ANALOG TAPE SOUND ive been hearing about producers like madlib and dilla running their beats through a tape machine to achieve a warm analog sound. exactly what kind of tape machine.. and do you actually record it on the taoe or just run it through the mACHINE??

27th March 2006, 04:01 PM	#14
BigAl Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 232	I never knew that a plug-in can sound like a 2" tape. Analog tape has a big rich punch to die for. There is a button on a 747 that puts out a tube sound. I thought that was amazing, but it's still no analog tape. __________________ The best of music is from an analog tape.

27th March 2006, 07:32 PM	#16
piccazzo Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Location: Stockholm / Sweden Posts: 259	" What's good as McDSP for VST? " Colortone http://www.tritonedigital.com __________________ bigntiny@gmail.com Myspace / The Foundation Worldwide Myspace / Bigntiny

27th March 2006, 08:50 PM	#17
panther Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington DC Posts: 128	the genre itslef Hip Hop is not known for its sonic quality to begin with (with the exception of Dre, amd probably a few others). Leave the warmth to the experts; get your tracks mastered. Honestly I would use an mpc60 + 16 channel allen heath or soundcraft + 160xt compressors + ADAT to create "warmth."

26th March 2006, 09:32 PM	#2
mic anon Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: TULSA, OKLAHOMA Posts: 89	most likely there recording to tape then dumping back into there computer for editing. www.myspace.com/nfinis

26th March 2006, 09:55 PM	#3
FunkFaker Gear nut Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 102	...a lot of hip-hop cats master to tape to achieve a little 'tape warmth' to their tracks... Look into a old 1/4" 2-track to mess around with. You can find something with decent head-life left for between $500-$1000. Good luck, have fun. tommy

26th March 2006, 11:22 PM	#4
jsrockit Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Jersey Posts: 632	Madlib records to a Tascam digital multitracker... and his beats are not exactly warm.

27th March 2006, 02:35 AM	#6
Harley-OIART Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,127	I really don't care if ppl flame me for this I stick with it.... There are many quality plugins these days which do a darn good job of generating Tape Saturation. Save your money and go with them. If your loaded with cash, got a big room, got money to spend on tape, and want to live analog : then By all means get urself a sweet Reel 2 Reel. I just want to reinterate the point that some of the 'poor man's solutions' (i.e. tape emulation) aren't nessicarily that 'poor' Good luck with ur traxx every1, Scott

27th March 2006, 03:16 AM	#9
TooledUp Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: London Posts: 33	Another option you could go for is the Empirical Labs EL-7 FATSO or the new Rupert Neve Portico 5042-H Two-Channel "True Tape" Emulator. At least with these units your keeping it analog and your investing in a new unit, not an old reel 2 reel that might not last.

27th March 2006, 07:14 PM	#15
no ssl yet Guest Posts: n/a	U all go right ahead with your plugin thingies, I'm getting a tape machine first chance I get

27th March 2006, 10:22 PM	#18
BigAl Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 232	Dre got a 2" tape. ....and you're right about leaving it to the masters. __________________ The best of music is from an analog tape.

27th March 2006, 10:22 PM	#19
dshay Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 159	Plug in tape saturation also has my endorsement. But then again, I'm going to be using the cassette four track for that garage sound.

28th March 2006, 12:33 AM	#22
D.T. Jambor Gear Head Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 60	Here a further example. DAW vs. Tape. With a special "extended" 2 - Track Tape. Consider the frequency response DAW and Tape. All files are in 24 bits - 96 kHz - No EQ, no Compressor... Converter Lavry http://www.musicfiles.homepage.t-onl...iginalFile.wav http://www.musicfiles.homepage.t-onl...fTape15ips.wav __________________ - Mastering und Recordings Components - www.truetrackrec.de

28th March 2006, 02:34 AM	#23
GL Respect Due Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wally World, AR Posts: 523	Affinity: To answer your questions directly: Lib/Dilla hasn't used tape for awhile. I'd say 99/2000 would be a safe bet on when they both put tape down. After that it was all about HDR's and Lappies for them. As far what tape/tape machines they used, who's to say. I know when Dilla was recording LabCab he was cutting on 2" (multi-track). I'd only be guessing as to what brand of tape and what particular machines though. And yea, you actually record on the tape. Not just through the machine. - To the others who suggested that plug-ins can yield results similar or close to tape, your outta your minds! Heres a good comparison, Coca Cola (Tape) verses Wal-Mart Select Cola (Plug-in). Not to mention theirs so many variables. They call themselves tape emulators, but what kinda tape sound are the emulating? An MCI machine? Otari? Studer? Ampex? 1/4", 1/2", 1", 2"? 15 ips? 30 ips? Properly aligned? Unaligned? The list goes on.

28th March 2006, 05:39 AM	#26
yeloocproducer Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 968	I've used analog channel, pheonix, and DUY tape on both Madlib and Dilla tracks over the past couple of years. I really like the new TDM plugin "tape-head" that some guy is selling for only $69... more aggressive than pheonix. The above post is correct that Lib and Dilla abandoned physical tape around the turn of the millenium. Alot of Madlib and Dilla's tape sound is already in the samples they use(d) off of vinyl.

28th March 2006, 07:42 PM	#27
Tommy Mas Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 64	the Roland Space Echo is DOPE. and they just released a plugin of it on Universal Audio.com

29th March 2006, 06:35 AM	#28
filterayok Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,284	i got a question, that ive never had fully explained----sound is just frequency and amplitude, correct? so "warmth" is usually referring to a less high-endy sound, and slight boosts in the low-low-mid area, and perhaps some added compression... so can't a good ear "warm" something up with compressors and eq's?? i understand that perhaps maybe these tape machines are compressing only certain frequencies, but a c4 plugin can do that... i don't know what metaphysical means, but WARMTH means a tasteful addition of low mid frequencies and reduction of certain high frequencies... why does everyone need a tape machine to do that?? What magic does tape perform that you can't do with an eq or compressors?? __________________ http://www.myspace.com/ericsanicola http://www.myspace.com/hisboyL http://EricSanicola.com

29th March 2006, 06:42 AM	#29
yeloocproducer Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 968	Tape does a lot of different things... it's saturation (0 attack time compression), distortion, biasing up and back down, eq, etc. It's hard enough to get right in an emulation plug-in... but you won't be able to fake it with eq and compression only. There's high freq. smearing, 2nd order harmonics, all sorts of stuff to give it "warmth".

29th March 2006, 07:06 AM	#30
filterayok Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,284	high frequency smearing? that sounds like compression of the highs------and i think whatever harmonics are being produced is due to the compression... i guess zero attck time compression is impossible to recreate, but as opposed to 3ms?? can you with confidence, or can anybody with confidence pick out the song that was sent to tape as opposed to the song that was eq'd and compressed to emulate that sound.... and of course, if you say yes, a challenge will be presented....i would imagine it to be like a water tasting contest, between brands of bottled water.... __________________ http://www.myspace.com/ericsanicola http://www.myspace.com/hisboyL http://EricSanicola.com

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