dj shadow sampling trick

breakbeat-cafe · 11th March 2006

i read recently that dj shadow uses a high end hi fi needle for sampling, because regular dj needles add unwanted compression - and lose you a bit of frequency, i'm curious if anyone on here does or has done this and if they noted any real difference?

dshay · 11th March 2006

difference is notable.

Pros do pay attention to the cartridge they use for sampling.

Cartridge differences effect output levels, frequency range, and other nuances like transient response, this unwanted compression you speak of. Basically distortion. Anything that's not the original wave is distortion.

Shure has the M97XE you might want to take a look at. That's more of a budget minded hi fi. Cause it goes all the way up to $10,000.

Check out The Needle Doctor. They're on the web. maybe give them a call.

tikcor · 11th March 2006

needles a start. donno if id call it a trick or just common sense. only problem is if you really get into it, it can cost lots of money. theres definately a difference though. alot of people dont care and sample off a tech. and it sounds fine, but if youre bothered by it, theres literally an infinitey of things to do. needles, tonearms, table, preamps and thats just a top view. if you do wanna get into it ill give a couple starter tips:
this made me crazy at one piont so know when to draw the line.
balance. every component is gonna favor certain frequencies. its important that if your needles all about hi's that youve got a low frequency favoring tone arm. the idea is to get what is on the record to what ever youre recording on, flat. dont forget that alot of records have been mastered to the RIAA eq curve, but most preamps will have it either just bulit in or switchable not to mention other curves.
all components will do something. there are no flat components.
tube amps. if you can afford them(or have the inner strength to get into repairing used ones) its the way to go. youll have a lil more trouble balancing then with a solid state but the warmth factor is hard to resist.
belt drive turntables. they make tables for crazy people that have the motor like 4 feet away and elaborate pulley systems only to aviod vibrations moving the record. thats the extreme, but it does make a differnce.
agian, your techniques with a dj needle and the mixers pre are fine. theyre just designed with different factors in mind. one is to spin, the other is to playback music as accurately as possible.
a nice budget table and pre is the rega planar series and the BLack Box solid state pre. or at least they were 5 years ago. im sure the budget market has expanded since.
dont go crazy! good luck.

Arka · 12th March 2006

I think you could gain some fidelity by changing that ol´ Tech 12 to a belt driven hifi turntable as well. Something like a Rega deck would prolly improve s/n ratio. I think the direct drive mechanism on a DJ turntable makes the needle pick up a lot of motor vibrations and stuff...

I think I´m gonna start with the needle though.

peace /Arka

Arka · 12th March 2006

tikcor posted while I wrote mine... I think he pretty much said it all there.

Maddstone · 12th March 2006

Man, forget that,Just filter the living crap outta that sample with whatever needle u use.Who cares.

But on the real though, it all depends, I feel, on the vibe of the track that ur doing.If its called for, those frequencies could accentuate the song.If not, dont bother.Just my view.

Arka · 12th March 2006

Personally, as I´ve gradually drifted towards a cleaner sound over the years, it only makes sense to capture the samples with as little added distorsion as possible. If I really want **** shit up, I might re-amp a sou d through a guitar cab or run it through a tape echo or something.

peace /Arka

breakbeat-cafe · 12th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikcor

needles a start. donno if id call it a trick or just common sense. only problem is if you really get into it, it can cost lots of money. theres definately a difference though. alot of people dont care and sample off a tech. and it sounds fine, but if youre bothered by it, theres literally an infinitey of things to do. needles, tonearms, table, preamps and thats just a top view. if you do wanna get into it ill give a couple starter tips:
this made me crazy at one piont so know when to draw the line.
balance. every component is gonna favor certain frequencies. its important that if your needles all about hi's that youve got a low frequency favoring tone arm. the idea is to get what is on the record to what ever youre recording on, flat. dont forget that alot of records have been mastered to the RIAA eq curve, but most preamps will have it either just bulit in or switchable not to mention other curves.
all components will do something. there are no flat components.
tube amps. if you can afford them(or have the inner strength to get into repairing used ones) its the way to go. youll have a lil more trouble balancing then with a solid state but the warmth factor is hard to resist.
belt drive turntables. they make tables for crazy people that have the motor like 4 feet away and elaborate pulley systems only to aviod vibrations moving the record. thats the extreme, but it does make a differnce.
agian, your techniques with a dj needle and the mixers pre are fine. theyre just designed with different factors in mind. one is to spin, the other is to playback music as accurately as possible.
a nice budget table and pre is the rega planar series and the BLack Box solid state pre. or at least they were 5 years ago. im sure the budget market has expanded since.
dont go crazy! good luck.

Tickor, thanks that'a great post, can I ask if you would mind me quoting you and putting this in an article on my website?, i'll credit you of course and link to you, let me know dude.

tikcor · 14th March 2006

nah that was a gearsluts exclusive. glad i could give back something for what ive been getting. 5

11th March 2006	#1
breakbeat-cafe Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 87 Thread Starter	dj shadow sampling trick i read recently that dj shadow uses a high end hi fi needle for sampling, because regular dj needles add unwanted compression - and lose you a bit of frequency, i'm curious if anyone on here does or has done this and if they noted any real difference? __________________ http://www.breakbeat-cafe.net - breakbeats, drum loops, tutorials.

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11th March 2006	#2
dshay Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 163	difference is notable. Pros do pay attention to the cartridge they use for sampling. Cartridge differences effect output levels, frequency range, and other nuances like transient response, this unwanted compression you speak of. Basically distortion. Anything that's not the original wave is distortion. Shure has the M97XE you might want to take a look at. That's more of a budget minded hi fi. Cause it goes all the way up to $10,000. Check out The Needle Doctor. They're on the web. maybe give them a call.

11th March 2006	#3
tikcor Gear Head Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 30	needles a start. donno if id call it a trick or just common sense. only problem is if you really get into it, it can cost lots of money. theres definately a difference though. alot of people dont care and sample off a tech. and it sounds fine, but if youre bothered by it, theres literally an infinitey of things to do. needles, tonearms, table, preamps and thats just a top view. if you do wanna get into it ill give a couple starter tips: this made me crazy at one piont so know when to draw the line. balance. every component is gonna favor certain frequencies. its important that if your needles all about hi's that youve got a low frequency favoring tone arm. the idea is to get what is on the record to what ever youre recording on, flat. dont forget that alot of records have been mastered to the RIAA eq curve, but most preamps will have it either just bulit in or switchable not to mention other curves. all components will do something. there are no flat components. tube amps. if you can afford them(or have the inner strength to get into repairing used ones) its the way to go. youll have a lil more trouble balancing then with a solid state but the warmth factor is hard to resist. belt drive turntables. they make tables for crazy people that have the motor like 4 feet away and elaborate pulley systems only to aviod vibrations moving the record. thats the extreme, but it does make a differnce. agian, your techniques with a dj needle and the mixers pre are fine. theyre just designed with different factors in mind. one is to spin, the other is to playback music as accurately as possible. a nice budget table and pre is the rega planar series and the BLack Box solid state pre. or at least they were 5 years ago. im sure the budget market has expanded since. dont go crazy! good luck.

12th March 2006	#4
Arka Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 92	I think you could gain some fidelity by changing that ol´ Tech 12 to a belt driven hifi turntable as well. Something like a Rega deck would prolly improve s/n ratio. I think the direct drive mechanism on a DJ turntable makes the needle pick up a lot of motor vibrations and stuff... I think I´m gonna start with the needle though. peace /Arka

12th March 2006	#6
Maddstone Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 274	Man, forget that,Just filter the living crap outta that sample with whatever needle u use.Who cares. But on the real though, it all depends, I feel, on the vibe of the track that ur doing.If its called for, those frequencies could accentuate the song.If not, dont bother.Just my view.

14th March 2006	#9
tikcor Gear Head Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 30	nah that was a gearsluts exclusive. glad i could give back something for what ive been getting. 5