Tracking Vocals with Two Mics

[Trell Blaze]

Originally Posted by Obleezy

So I was thinkin bout spending some extra dough on a dynamic mic not to replace my condensor for vocal tracking but actually to set them both to record the same take at the same time in mono. This is more of an experiment and I'm curious to see how the vocals will turn out sounding. Just wondering if anyone has tried this or does this regularly for rap vocals, and what your experiences have been

I don't have any experience with double mic recording but I know you have to beware of phase issues in certain situations. I'm sure someone more experienced in this will elaborate...

[Ken Lewis]

well, my first thought was to say your crazy, but who knows, it might turn out great. So, with the power of digital, you can (almost) perfectly phase align the 2 mics after the fact (if they need to be). I'm not gonna sit here and lecture you on phase alignment other than to say, if you dont know what i'm talking about or how to do it, then abandon your 2 mic idea.

Otherwise, let us know how it turns out if you do it.

[B.A.S.E]

Something related to it would be binaural recording..

With a binaural dummy head. It uses 2 cardioid type mic if I remember well (not sure about the mic type, my memory is failing me). But you could look into it.

You could read some more in the Tchad Blake interview part of the forum I guess.

Experiment, experiment on your own first though. Who knows.. thumbsup

[AlexK]

I've tried it, and had all sorts of issues with phasey sibilance.

Stereo vocal tracking - now I haven't tried that.

[Eemo1]

sure,

no problems here with ribbon mic + ldc tube mic.

[rickrock305]

I've heard of it done before, never tried it myself.

[RTR]

Just set them up in xy and then pan them to middle or where ever they sound good!

[utters]

the idea is to use the mics separately no?

as in use the condenser take for verses, and then the dynamic one for the choruses... when the singer goes up in volume, intensity etc

[tdot]

Only thing I'v tried with two mics on vox is my preamp in M/S mode - err...wouldn't consider doing that for main vocals...maybe on a chorus it could have a use?

[Audio Alex]

I did use a double miking technique on a jazz track once. The singer had a very dynamic vocal, so I place one mic close to her and the other was positioned further away. I can not for the life of me remember what mics we used, but it was quite successful if I remember correctly. I had read somewhere that this technique was used for a Tina Turner record because of her dynamics. Never tried it again or even thought about it until just now.

[LeoLeoLeo]

Do it all the time in rock/metal. Coincident capsules/diaphragms are key or 3:1 rule or play with the phaseiness.

[Storyville]

Done it on rock vocals. I use the condenser for the softer parts and switch to a dynamic on the screamy parts. Really screamy stuff, a kick drum mic actually works very well.

I've heard of XY captures on vocals for a very wide sound. Never tried a dynamic and a condenser side by side - watch for phase problems as others have said. If you can get them perfectly in phase it you could use one mic as a parallel channel, using the different frequency response and grab to find the sound that most compliments the vocal. I'd be concerned that there is no perfect phase though, and so you'll get some degree of blurriness in any combination.

[Simon FP]

if I was to do this I'd use a dynamic to close mic and an omni to capture the sound of the room. mix the 2 to taste.

[prologicmusic]

I usually use 2 mics to record, especially if its a new client. Can make mixing alot easier. Just keep one muted and pick which one sounds better in the mix down. Sometimes using the 2nd mic for the hook works well, gives it some different "texture"

[Obleezy]

Well I've gotten some decent insight out of a lot of answers posted here. To clarify I'm on a budget and wanted to know if using two mics simultaneously to track rap vocals would be a good idea. I already own an at4040 condenser and was looking at some of the higher praised budget dynamic mics such as a shure sm7b for example to see if I could get a cool sound from two different types of mics to capture a wide array of dynamics. Ofcourse being on a budget means I'd rather NOT spend the money if it wasn't a worthwhile endeavor, and so far many people have brought up that phase problems will be a major headache with this technique. I would love to just buy one and try it out to let you guys know what I think, but if I'm gonna buy it I wanna have a pretty good feeling beforehand that it's a smart addition to my home studio. Thoughts...

[Obleezy]

Originally Posted by prologicmusic

I usually use 2 mics to record, especially if its a new client. Can make mixing alot easier. Just keep one muted and pick which one sounds better in the mix down. Sometimes using the 2nd mic for the hook works well, gives it some different "texture"

I like your idea about tracking on two mics to choose the better take of the two afterwards, I was curious as to how you would position these two mics so they would be equally picking up almost the same dynamic sound: position, distance, angle, etc.

[Storyville]

In this case I would say it's not worth the endeavor. Find ways to better utilize your 4040. If you can't get a decent sound from that mic it's not the mic's fault.

[Trell Blaze]

Originally Posted by Storyville

In this case I would say it's not worth the endeavor. Find ways to better utilize your 4040. If you can't get a decent sound from that mic it's not the mic's fault.

The AT 4000 series has been getting some bad rep around here lately, eh?

I wonder what they'd think of the old Marshall Mogami V57 I used to use

[prologicmusic]

Originally Posted by Storyville

In this case I would say it's not worth the endeavor. Find ways to better utilize your 4040. If you can't get a decent sound from that mic it's not the mic's fault.

It has nothing to do with not being able to get a decent sound from the mic, its about having more options to play with. i can have 2 mics and 2 different preamps resulting in 2 completely different tones which i might like to play with during the mix.

It doesnt take long to set up, in fact it would save time. having 2 or more mics set up, i can just sit back and patch into the pre of choice.

[tdot]

Originally Posted by Trell Blaze

The AT 4000 series has been getting some bad rep around here lately, eh?

You can say that again - I returned my 4040 and 4047.
Didn't like either. Almost got a 4050 (it sounded much better than those two) but didn't really want another AT....

[L.C.W]

Rza used 2 vocal mics simultaneously for the last wu-tang album, maybe look up interviews on the net for his process.

[Ken Lewis]

ya know, thinking about this from another perspective. If you are recording yourself and want to try this, then hey, to each their own, but if you are recording another artist, I'd say there's a chance that the artist is going to be thrown off by looking at 2 mics, regardless of what you explain to them. Your job as a producer / engineer / recordist is to put the vocalist into the best comfort zone you can possibly put them in. Throwing an X factor like a second microphone into that equation sounds to me like a recipe for throwing off a performance more than it sounds like a recipe for something worthwhile that you should be doing.

[ears2thesky]

I do this all of the time. I'll use the LDC du jour and set up a SM57 right under it aligning the diaphragms as closely as possible. I'll use the pop filter as the reference for alignment and wa-la. This works really well on vocalists that like lots of FX on their voice--I use the '57 to drive the FX and blend or switch with the LDC to taste. Sometimes I'll heavily compress or distort one of the mics and blend it with other for texture. Really having two distinct tones gives me a lot of flexibility at mixdown--much like using two mics on guitar cabinets.
Do it!

[Pfhuck]

Last time I did this was with an EV 635a and a Shure GreenBullet(DI'd). Both were plugged into the same channel of my Vintech1272 (The mic input and DI are paralleled.)

I let the singer hold both mics and work them however he wanted (with some constructive criticism on playback listen). Took a few takes, but he got the sound he was looking for.

Who knows. Try it.

Please and THANK YOU!
-Pfhuck

[3rdeyeKnight]

I've heard and read stories of Ivan "Doc" Rodriguez doing that for a lot of
those classics that came out of the Golden Era.

Matter of fact, I was able to find an excerpt from an interview he did a little
while back. The original link for the entire article is defunct, but reprinted on other Hip-Hop sites.



THE HIP, THE HOP, & EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN
By Dan Daley | February 2006

"When tracking vocals I recommend a two microphone set-up (to two mono tracks), one Neumann U87 (or AKG 414) in the cardioid pattern running through an Avalon AD2002 (or Focusrite ISA 430/Presonus ADL 600/or other reasonable grade) mic preamp and a Shure SM58 (or other very basic stage mic) running through any basic mic pre (or console pre) stacked in an “L” pattern facing the vocalist.

The U87 will always give you a wonderful result, the SM58 will give you a gritty type of sound that may be very useful in the mix. I do not recommend the use of compression when recording vocals (unless your vocals are erratic and even then I’d rather work you through a few takes until I get a feel for your style and cadence). Worst case scenario I’ll insert a Tube Tech CL2A or Universal Audio LA-2A in the signal path at a very light setting (2:1). I’d much rather compress during the mix.

What the heck, if you’re going to record vocals you might as well record with two mics, you might never repeat that one hot take again and end up regretting the fact that you didn’t get an optional mic track."

[AcoosticZoo]

Pure and simple works best in regards to recording vocals. You would have two mic setup with different gains so if one clips you have a back up. That's why I'd record vocals with two mics, otherwise, one best mic is sufficient to do the job.

In regards to your setup, there's no obvious added advantage from blending two vocal mic sources together. Vocals aren't the same as micing cabinets.
Our ears are very finely tuned to what natural vocals sound like, it's very easy to spot phasing in a multiple micing array for vocals.

You could use two mics as a ms config, if you wanna increase the stereo spread like that though.


Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com

[Yetti]

I had a recording book about 15 years ago with black and white pictures of various recording techniques...
One example was cutting vocals for a Men at Work album in a home studio.
It showed a picture example of a 414 about 3 or 4 feet back and a few feet above the close mic to capture and blend in what the author described as Collins nasaly sound in the vocal that he couldn't get as good with 1 mic.
He also threw moving blankets kinda bunched up on the floor around both the mic stands and surrounding area.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by prologicmusic

It has nothing to do with not being able to get a decent sound from the mic, its about having more options to play with. i can have 2 mics and 2 different preamps resulting in 2 completely different tones which i might like to play with during the mix.

It doesnt take long to set up, in fact it would save time. having 2 or more mics set up, i can just sit back and patch into the pre of choice.

Actually, it's very clearly about this:

"to clarify I'm on a budget and wanted to know if using two mics simultaneously to track rap vocals would be a good idea. I already own an at4040 condenser and was looking at some of the higher praised budget dynamic mics such as a shure sm7b for example to see if I could get a cool sound from two different types of mics to capture a wide array of dynamics. Ofcourse being on a budget means I'd rather NOT spend the money if it wasn't a worthwhile endeavor, and so far many people have brought up that phase problems will be a major headache with this technique?"

If the idea is to use two mics simultaneously - as in to run both feeds simultaneously - as a means of improving some form of quality as a budget option the answer is pretty much: no, it's not worth it.

To YOU it is about having options to play with - and I totally agree. In the situation you are describing I think you are right on the money.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by Trell Blaze

The AT 4000 series has been getting some bad rep around here lately, eh?

I wonder what they'd think of the old Marshall Mogami V57 I used to use

I'll say the 4040 is not my favorite of the series, but it sure ain't bad. Especially for the price. Used a 4050 as the side capture for a room m/s pair on drums today. Sounded fantastic. I travel with my AT4033a - I love it. Outside of those three I don't have any experience with the others of the 4000 series, but I've heard good things both on and outside of GS.

You'd be hard pressed to get the best sound from a 4040, but if you know what you are doing it's not too tough to get a good sound.